WI: Nazi Germany vs Trotskyist USSR
- Thread starter Dr. Niles
- Start date
A Trotskyist USSR that didn't perform the heavy industrialization and collectivization might not have the industrial capacity (tanks, airplanes, small arms) to fend off Barbarossa and if they do by simply drowning the Germans in blood, they'll be in a much weaker position after the war, possibly moving the iron curtain further East than OTL
Well ignoring Trotskys unlikelyhood to rule I expect the USSR to fare somewhat more respectably for the whole war. Trotsky is a good leader himself and he would not have the same reasoning to purge the officer corps and as someone who could atleast plausibly be supported by the military. I do like the irony of Trotsky being th one to defeat hitler given how he was atleast culturally Jewish.
Stalins industrial policy wasn't really that important. He was mostly working from the pre existing tsarist base and otherwise his new plants where all and mostly destroyed early in the war. And if anything collectivization being instituted differently helps the war effort by ensuring a stable food supply and no famine. Also, so much is gained by avoiding the officers purge that it would probably outweigh most everything else at the beginning of the war. OTL at the beginning of the war Russia's army was a disorganized mess incapable of properly organizing itself for defense. Here they'd be capable of fighting the nazis from the start.
Trotsky would likely never had made the M-R Pact which would change WWII a lot. It is also possible that he never would have initiated the Popular Front either which would have changed the build up to WWII. A Trotskyite USSR dedicated to "world revolution" instead of "socialism in one country" might never have been recognized by the Western powers and been much more isolated - no trade or technology transfer.
The fascists might have made common cause with the democracies in an anti-Bolshevik alliance. That still leaves Hilter looking for opportunities for a nice little war in the East, and he likely still wants to defeat France. I'm not sure how things would have played out.
The fascists might have made common cause with the democracies in an anti-Bolshevik alliance. That still leaves Hilter looking for opportunities for a nice little war in the East, and he likely still wants to defeat France. I'm not sure how things would have played out.
Zimmerwald1915
Banned
How do you get the Nazis in power in such a world? If the Left Opposition (Left Majority, in this universe?) had any chance at taking power in the USSR, it was well before 1933, possibly as much as a decade earlier. And the butterflies from such an event, particularly in Germany, would have been extensive. To give one example, Trotsky's faction opposed the Third Period turn away from the Popular Front.
A lot of that was Trotsky's own idea. I imagine the main difference would be in terms of the USSR's foreign relations and whether or not Trotsky conducts purges or adopts the notions of massed armor or "deep operations" that were in political disfavor for awhile.
Much has been said about Trotsky's lack of political skills. Did he have some ally who did have the skills who might be the titular head with Trotsky as the real mastermind?
As far as I'm concerned no one he could trust. Assuming ITTL he has a few more friends in the Russian Army you could probably hand-waive him forming a friendship and alliance with a non-threatening but charismatic elected officer who ends up in charge of Russia officially while using Trotsky as a primary adviser though. Unlikely as hell but possible. From there though it's really a matter of how Trotsky keeps up his military knowledge, although he was inventive enough in OTL I could see him going down as an innovator ITTL.
Wasn't Mikhail Frunze an army buddy of Trotsky and adored by much of the Party to boot? Apparently he was very much of the 'loyal workhorse' variety and could be an acceptable face for a Left troika. He died in a ridiculous minor medical operation in 1925-ish that might have been Stalin or just as likely an incompetent doctor.
Trotsky leading the USSR will still have crash industrialisation and collectivisation. Would his commitment to world revolution have any real world effects bar alienating the West?
Also if no Nazi-Soviet Pact, what does Hitler do to Poland?
Trotsky leading the USSR will still have crash industrialisation and collectivisation. Would his commitment to world revolution have any real world effects bar alienating the West?
Also if no Nazi-Soviet Pact, what does Hitler do to Poland?