WI a state had seceeded from the Confederacy during the Civil War?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Dean_the_Young, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Dean_the_Young Uppity Bad Spellar

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    Say a power struggle in Richmond leads one state or another to secede from the Confederacy during the Civil War, even though that state isn't being overrun by the Union. What are your thoughts as to what would happen?
     
  2. Locke Hardcore Packers Fan since '11

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    The CSA would roll over them-unless opf course, this action didn't provoke further succession. United, the Southern states were weak, but alone they might as well have been drunk, blind, and crippled, so to speak.

    If the CSA were to try and re-conquer the southenr state, that would be their most hypocritical action. The CSA would probably collapse further, and the ACW would eb that much shorter.
     
  3. Philip One L only

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    Does West Virginia count?
     
  4. Rocano Banned

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    Well States sewceeded before becoming the CSA. A more likely scenairio is Texas not joining the CSA
     
  5. zoomar Curmudgeon

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    Certainly not what happened with Texas in the HT timeline. The USA would still consider the state in rebellion against the USA unless it immediately surrendered. No doubt the state would be offered very lenient (let bygones by bygones) terms for reentering the Union, especially if this created strategic or logistic problems for the Confederacy. No chance it could stay independent as a US "ally". A wrinkle might be the emancipation proclaimation, which only affected states in rebellion against the USA. Might a special case be made for, say Georgia, if it seceeded from the CSA and rejoined the Union, allowing it to be treated like the slave-holding border states which stayed in the USA?

    One wonders what the reaction of the Richmond government might be. If the state was not undergoing invasion by the USA, my guess is that, as long as the state agreed not to rejoin the Union or assist them as an ally, the CSA would have to honor this or they'd seem pretty hypocritical.
     
  6. DMA I am not the Final Cylon!

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    Depends on the state, I'd dare say, & whether they get & accept Union help. As Philip pointed out, West Virginia effectively seceeded from the CSA, then joined the Union, & got Union help, which threw out CSA incursions into the state.

    Similarly if Texas had left, as Rocano noted, considering its location, size, & population, I'd dare say it'd be hard to re-conquer at any time.

    But overall I'd agree that the CSA would probably be defeated much sooner if it did start to fall apart.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  7. Rocano Banned

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    Also if Texas claims the CS Arizona Territory. How about Texas and CSA make a Three Way Civil War. The large plains of Texas coupled with the Scarce Troops left from the East would leave Texas excluding its most Eastren Parts unscarred. By the Fall of of the CSA Texas would become the next target for US Forces. But with a new Front it would leave the south open for Rebellion again. Texas reconquered possibly Ten years later maybe less after the fall of the CSA. By this point Texan Independence would be to rooted in the hearts of the People. During the 1940s the Texans break off from the US with help from the Axis Powers. From its reconquest Texas has been a hotspot for dissent and never rejoined the Union. Texas is conquered again and Texas is forever scarred for not joining the CSA.

    By the way my Idea no one steal this
     
  8. Burton K Wheeler Moderator Moderator

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    The counter-example to West Virginia would be Eastern Tennessee or North Carolina, which both tried to secede (in North Carolina's case, to not secede from the Union), but were forced to join Richmond. The only Confederate state with a chance of making a clean break would be Texas.
     
  9. Locke Hardcore Packers Fan since '11

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    Great Idea! I should make a TL on this....
     
  10. ZaphodBeeblebrox I Said that

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    I Think The Simplest POD, is if Tennessee Follows Kentucky's Example and Declares itself Neutral as Soon as Shots are Fired at Fort Sumter ...

    With a State on Each Side Refusing Combat within their Borders, The War Stays MUCH More Focused on The Eastern Theatre ...

    Even if The Union Wins as in OTL, Tennessee's Readmission Terms May Be Downright Genteel, Even More So than OTL's in Fact!

    :D
     
  11. Demosthenes Tu delenda est

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    Such a state seceeding would cause another problem for the CSA, and would make them lose even worser :)))
     
  12. DMA I am not the Final Cylon!

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    I'd dare say if there's no significant Western Theatre, then the Union actually loses. The Confederacy survives in one form or another.

    The real interesting thing here is, if the Civil War does become a draw, what happens to those neutral states? Do they rejoin one side or the other, or become autonomous regions within either the Union or CSA, or do they become independent nations in their own right?
     
  13. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    The most likely states to do that are Georgia and North Carolina. If either or both go the Confederacy is in deep trouble.
     
  14. Locke Hardcore Packers Fan since '11

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    But why would Georgia go? I can see North Carolina (they were the least supportive of the CS) but why would Georgia leave? If they do, they wil ahve no one to sell their stuff too, since their ports are blocked off, plus they are surrounded by angry southerners.
     
  15. Rocano Banned

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    How about no CSA just warring seperate states
     
  16. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    The governor of Georgia threatened to have Georgia leave the Confederacy at one point.
     
  17. ZaphodBeeblebrox I Said that

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    I was Pondering that Myself ...

    I Figure a Referendum on The Issue Would Be Held Post-War, in Which Case Both States Would Probably Join The Confederacy ...

    Allowing Both States to Remain Jointly Administered Might Be a Good Compromise, too, But What if All Concerned Felt a Neutral Nation was Necessary on that Spot, Especially if it was Also Named After Daniel Boone?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2007
  18. DMA I am not the Final Cylon!

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    I'd dare say Tennessee would, but Kentucky might be different as a majority of its population were Union loyalists. It was one of those quirk of politics that the Governor was pro-CSA, when it all began, whilst its state Congress was pro-Union for the most part.



    A jointly administered state or two could very well spark off ACW mark two... especially in divided Kentucky.

    Meanwhile could Tennessee make it on its own? That'd be interesting
     
  19. Nicomacheus Member, Sociedad Thrasybulo

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    While the KY state Legislature was pro-Union in 1861, it was very narrowly so. Kentucky was one of several states (including Tennessee and Missouri) that sent soldiers to fight on both sides of the Civil War. By 1865, Kentucky had begun leaning to the South; Kentuckians today like to joke that Kentucky decided to secede in 1865. (Also, for example, there is a big statue near the University of Louisville campus "in honor of our Confederate Dead.")

    A similar situation might have happened in Texas in 1861: Sam Houston was governor at the time and remained pro-Union. Texans at the time OTL considered him a traitor because he refused to take an oath of allegiance to the CSA. A true Jacksonian, he believed in the Union he had struggled to make Texas a part of. Lincoln sent Houston a letter offering federal troops to help keep Texas in the Union; Houston refused the offer because that would have made the state into a battleground. Even if it joined the CSA, he knew it would see little conflict. Perhaps Houston could have found a way to convince people to declare neutrality along the lines of Kentucky.

    While this doesn't represent CSA secession, it does suggest an analogous occurrence: a third side to the Civil War.
     
  20. Rocano Banned

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    You saw my Texas declares Independence thing rite