WI: A Sahara "Mongol Like" Empire

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

1) The following are the tribes/major ethnic groups that live in the Central, Eastern and Western Sahara:
- Tauregs (Western Sahara)
- Sahrawis and Haratin (Far Western Sahara)
- Toubou (Central Sahara)
- Nubians (Eastern Sahara)
- Fulani and Songhai (Cling to Sahara/Sahel Border)
- Tunjur and Daju (Eastern Sahara).

2) Outside of the Nubians, all of these cultures are mainly nomadic. With a pod of 1100 and later, have one of these groups conquer and control the other groups and create a Empire that stretches for the Atlantic to the Nile, and from the Niger River and Lake Chad to Tripoli and the Southern Atlas Mountains.

 

[Plateosaurus]

Yeah, bit of a problem. First, Central Asia was primarily cold grassland/steppe while the Sahara hasn't been grassland since 4,500 years ago. The conditions are very different.

 

[GameBawesome]

My money is on the Tuareg. They had trade-routes with Sub-Saharan/West African Empires, and had raided cities and made tributaries out of them, like Timbuktu.

You probably need a Great Man among the Tuareg to unify the Tuareg Clans, into Saharan Semi-Nomadic Empire

 

[Silver01]

Well in my timeline I created at first semi nomadic Berber empire that then conquered from modern day morroco to Lybia it don't think it fits 100% the Mongols thing but it was a sedentary king uniting and defeated other Berber kingdoms and tribes to expand the Berber empire so that could count

so yeah by the 9th century i made this so yeah

 

[Wendell]

I like the idea of an empire spanning the Niger basin. It's not quite this I suppose, but would be similar in many ways.

 

[Silver01]

I like the idea of an empire spanning the Niger basin. It's not quite this I suppose, but would be similar in many ways.

so a more successfull songhai empire

 

[Wendell]

so a more successfull songhai empire

Potentially. Or a better organized Fula jihad.

 

[Nivek]

2) Outside of the Nubians, all of these cultures are mainly nomadic. With a pod of 1100 and later, have one of these groups conquer and control the other groups and create a Empire that stretches for the Atlantic to the Nile, and from the Niger River and Lake Chad to Tripoli and the Southern Atlas Mountains.

Maybe some unify under a banner and we got a Berber/Amazhigh Caliphate on a rush in all of africa?

 

[Silver01]

Potentially. Or a better organized Fula jihad.

in 19 th century? well thats going to be a short lived empire.

 

[Wendell]

in 19 th century? well thats going to be a short lived empire.

Possibly, but not necessarily.

 

[Silver01]

Possibly, but not necessarily.

unless for some reason the europeans dont want to kill it or they become the japan of africa.

 

[Wendell]

unless for some reason the europeans dont want to kill it or they become the japan of africa.

They become the protectorate of one power interested in control over the entire Niger basin.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Yeah, bit of a problem. First, Central Asia was primarily cold grassland/steppe while the Sahara hasn't been grassland since 4,500 years ago. The conditions are very different.

There were still routes and a series of desert oasis villages throughout the Sahara as well cities of the fringes of the Maghreb and Sahel. All of these tribes were connected to each other through said TransSaharan Routes.

I think the best POD is for a Genghis Khan like person who can unite his people (Tauregs and Toubou had clan structures), and then conquer all the trade routes to gain the wealth from the gold and salt trade.

In otl, all of these people used Camels and Horses by the 11th century AD, so they have ability to move quickly and conquer. The Introduction of Islam and Arabic and the connection to the Islamic world will help develop said empire as well.

My money is on the Tuareg. They had trade-routes with Sub-Saharan/West African Empires, and had raided cities and made tributaries out of them, like Timbuktu.

You probably need a Great Man among the Tuareg to unify the Tuareg Clans, into Saharan Semi-Nomadic Empire

I would agree that the Taureg are geographically in the best place to do this.

 

[Sceonn]

That's what the Songhai Empire was. They conquered a settled, aging Empire down south, over expended their reach, and broke apart just like the Mongols.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

That's what the Songhai Empire was. They conquered a settled, aging Empire down south, over expended their reach, and broke apart just like the Mongols.

That was the upper Niger River Basin and parts of Senegal though, not the Sahara. (or at least not much of it).

 

[Sceonn]

That was the upper Niger River Basin and parts of Senegal though, not the Sahara. (or at least not much of it).

Then what are they supposed to live off of? Horses eat more than cows, and no desert can support cows.

 

[Tocomocho]

Almoravid dynasty - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Then what are they supposed to live off of? Horses eat more than cows, and no desert can support cows.

- Imports. As controllers of arguably the second most important trade route in the medieval world, they have the wealth to import food.
- Also, in otl people have been living in the Sahara Desert for thousands of years and have been able to feed themselves so idk how it'd be a problem in a atl situation.
- Vassalage of parts of the Sahel. If militant enough they could vassalize regions of the Sahel that bordered the Sahara and force a agricultural tribute if needed.
- As the otl ancient Garamantes proved, with enough wealth and slaves, the vast amounts of untouched ground water under the Sahara can be extracted with medieval technology. With proper maintanence, oasis villages could become agricultural paradises in the middle of the desert that could be used to support any increased trade.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Almoravid dynasty - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Thanks for sharing ☺ , definitely a option, although I would prefer natives Saharan cultures doing the conquering.

 

[Irvine]

I'm assuming they would substitute the horses with camels? I don't know about the sustainability of a very high population of camels in this area, but the mongols had a LOT of horses. This Saharan Empire would be built in the back of these animals, they would be needed to maintain the versatility needed to cross these long distances.