Which country could have a cultural invasion similar to South Korea or Japan

[Jürgen]

France and Belgium with their comic book industries? The Smurfs became pretty big in North America.

The Franco-Belgium comic book industry was a juggernaut with far greater cultural influence across Europe than Manga have had outside Japan [1]. The main problem for them is that they have turned into a niche products.

[1] Pretty much all Western Europeans no matter age know who Asterix and Tintin is, I doubt any manga character can rival them.

 

[Jürgen]

If I should come with idea for a similar cultural invasion, I would go with East Germany developing a animation scene, they could specialize in selling to the rest of the East Block, while at the same time getting a following in West Germany through public broadcast (which could be picked up across the border). This push West Germany to compete with East German animation further develop their animation scene, after the reunification the big West German animation studios buy up their East German counterparts and hire the East German animators who suddenly get a lot more artistic freedom, as result the 90ties see German animation dominate the European markets and even making it into the American markets.

 

[Fratsup]

For starters the problem is that they are just a European product that has been unable to penetrate the greater global market.

Also I would say the Japanese have made a major impact since Pokemon, Mario and Sonic are major global juggernauts and even Dragon Ball is major across Latin America.

I also do not think East Germany could become an animation juggernaut since they would have the problem of both censorship, and more importantly would make programs made at younger audiences and general audiences which would make them compete with Disney and they would likely lose that fight.

 

[pompejus]

I also do not think East Germany could become an animation juggernaut since they would have the problem of both censorship, and more importantly would make programs made at younger audiences and general audiences which would make them compete with Disney and they would likely lose that fight.

I don't think that Jürgen meant that East Germany would be a juggernaut. I think he meant that East-Germany would be the catalyst that kickstarts the West-German (and later unified German) juggernaut

 

[Fratsup]

I meant that I find that unlikely since all of western European animation has the problem of competing with Disney and all the other American animation market. Japan managed to avoid the problem by having a major animation market. Said market was able to get so big because it avoided casting itself as only for young children which is what I think any German animation will cater too squandering any potential they might have.

 

[pompejus]

I meant that I find that unlikely since all of western European animation has the problem of competing with Disney and all the other American animation market. Japan managed to avoid the problem by having a major animation market. Said market was able to get so big because it avoided casting itself as only for young children which is what I think any German animation will cater too squandering any potential they might have.

Personaly I think there is plenty of room to compete with Disney. Disney has not always been the cartoon juggernaut it is now (or was in the 1940's). There has been plenty of times Disney was in a slump. I think in the 60's-80's there is plenty room for any European (or North American) company to compete with and even outcompete Disney.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Honestly just making the changes in the 90s would be enough. South Korea was a military dictatorship for most of the 80s and look at it now. The main problem is that one needs a dictatorship that can at least support capitalism, and fall with comparatively little bloodshed.

*looks at the Philippines and all the lost films from before WW2, as well as all the creative potential wasted by the Marcoses*

*sobs*

 

[Fratsup]

I mean the other problem is that while Disney was in a slump a lot of other areas would also suffer. Anything pre 1950s had Disney and WW2 to deal with so there was no real competition. Everything post 1950s are dealing with a lack of global demand and Disney. Post 1960s everyone is dealing with the Oil crisis. Really the 1980s were as good a time as any for any foreign animation to bloom but I do not think any western animation would be able to due to Disney and due to how hard it was to open up the American market before 1990s.

 

[DJ03]

Italy, I think, could have had a bigger cultural invasion in the US. Milan is a fashion capital; Italy is home to many luxury fashion brands, car companies, vineyards, and famous tourist destinations; it is the heart of the Catholic Church; and it had a fair bit of influence over 20th century American cinema, from Spaghetti Westerns to The Godfather. Italian cuisine became extremely popular in the US and around the world after World War II -- to the point that pizza and pasta are as common in the American diet as hamburgers or hot dogs.

Maybe we can also have Italian comics reach success abroad. Tex would be a hit on the US market IMO

 

[Neoteros]

Maybe we can also have Italian comics reach success abroad. Tex would be a hit on the US market IMO

Not many Italian comics would be able to get past the Code, plenty of blood and profanity there.

 

[black_0]

Well for anyone who is into metal music Norway, Sweden and Finland are such nations.

 

[DJ03]

Not many Italian comics would be able to get past the Code, plenty of blood and profanity there.

That'd be a problem. Perhaps some slightly edited versions for the American market? I know it's not the same, but anime got away a lot by simply censoring blood in black or white (sometimes with hilarious results )

 

[Screwhorn77]

There was a similar thread a while ago here. Since Russia has been brought up, I'm going to refer to what I said about Russia back there:

In the 2000s, a number of Russian pop stars tried their hardest to crack the world. By now, the only act that is considered to have done it successfully is t. A. T. u., which to me has much more to do with their unheard of lesbian image (that was completely manufactured by Ivan Shapovalov, their producer). You can't deny, however, that their music didn't have a unique style to it. 200 km/h The Wrong Lane definitely has a unique feel, and two subsequent albums evolve that particular vibe.

They weren't the only act of the time to try to "go West", though. When Alsou came second on Eurovision Song Contest 2000, it caused quite a splash, and there were plans of an English-language album with Enrique Iglesias that didn't quite go anywhere. Dima Bilan tried to build an English-language career for himself as well, which fizzled out quickly. Sergey Lazarev (after Smash!! broke up) actually didn't want to record in Russian at all when he began his career, but changed his mind later on. He still records in English extensively, though. (A comment under one of his music videos — probably In My Lonely Life — jokingly called him a K-pop star born in the wrong country.)

This, however, brings to mind musical critic Oleg Karmunin and his Telegram channel "Russkiy shuffle", where he deliberately ignores Russian artists recording English-language songs, his reasoning being "no one really wants to hear you over there in the sea of alternatives". And I honestly agree with Karmunin in that regard, even if partially.

Now, K-pop as a genre has a universally agreed on starting point. That point is the performance by Seo Taiji and Boys on April 11, 1992 on a talent show by MBC. It proved so popular that the whole industry was now trying to do the same kind of music they were doing. Yang Hyun-suk, who was a member of Seo Taiji and Boys, started YG Entertainment, which became one of the largest K-pop companies. Without that performance, there would be no K-pop in its modern sense.

K-pop is as much music as it is aesthetic. This is why I brought up t. A. T. u., actually — they did have a thought-out image which inspired many. And, as success of Fabrika Zvezd (Russian remake of Star Academy format) showed, there was no shortage of young Russians (and not only Russians, certain contestants came from other countries as well) wanting to get a taste of fame.

Now that Russia was brought up as a place where a K-pop-esque culture could arise, I'd say that there was fertile ground for that. There is a problem, though. One that is still felt even now.

See, the big stars of the days of old were reluctant to give the way to the youth. Alla Pugachova in particular — in the 2000s she was still an influential figure — was compared to a mob boss by some as she could destroy careers of anyone who didn't like her. For many, she and the people associated with her represent everything wrong with Russian showbiz. The dreaded old guard with gatekeeping ways. You had to be their friend to have a chance.

Another serious problem are shady business practices that wouldn't completely go out of fashion for quite a while. The same group could perform simultaneously in several places with onstage "singers" lip syncing to the same vocal tracks. It was a common practice in the 1990s, less so in the 2000s but some would stick by that.

The "sex sells" factor is heavily at play too. The proliferation of "singing underpants", as Dmitry Malikov dubbed it, was very real and went hand-in-hand with the point above. This refers to girl groups tailored to male gaze exclusively. It's a point of infamy for many groups, as a matter of fact. It might not sound like a problem considering the topic, but it was getting a bit too shameless.

Exploring a scenario where Russia becomes a powerhouse of pop music (and pop culture) would be very interesting to me personally, but, for several reasons, I think it would be quite tricky to do.

And also:

This was all to wonder if anyone considered Ukraine for the role. There are quite a few Ukraine-based performers who were popular throughout the post-Soviet world. Heck, go check out "Imya 505" music video by Vremya i Steklo - the brand of weirdness there is on par with certain J-pop videos. Pop music industry is generally very strong there, now stronger than Russian probably.

 

[Neoteros]

That'd be a problem. Perhaps some slightly edited versions for the American market? I know it's not the same, but anime got away a lot by simply censoring blood in black or white (sometimes with hilarious results )

Maybe not white, since white blood could be easily mistaken for... another kind of bodily fluid.

The thing about Italian comics is, Bonelli Editore has a near monopoly on them, as a publishing house; some competition would do them well.

 

[lukedalton]

That's why I said, Italy's entertainment industry's been on a downward spiral since the 1990s - we haven't been able to produce decent popular culture since then. But the seeds of its fall had been sown way before the 1990s anyway, you'd need actual change to come to Italy for it to thrive; since you mentioned that random small-time enterpreneur, I wonder if the early 1990s Mafia war and Mani Pulite could've intersected, with the Mafia's ties to Italy's political class being revealed, and people such as him being sent to jail for a very, very long time - you'd need Falcone and Borsellino to survive and completely eviscerate the Mafia, however.

No Silvio, no Mediaset, no race to the bottom of Italian pop culture to the lowest common denominator, and the Mafia's ill-gotten gains could've been reinvested in, among other things, good pop culture; I know Germany's got somewhat of a pop culture sphere of influence in central Europe, Italy could've easily done the same in the Balkans, with Albania as a rather obvious starting point. Europop evolving into proto-EDM a few years ahead of schedule seems likely, but a boost to Italy's heavy metal scene wouldn't be unlikely either, even IRL we had Lacuna Coil hit the mainstream for a while, Rhapsody as power metal icons, and Nanowar making YouTube die of laughter.

Naa by the 90's Mediaset is a juggernaut that can survive without him, unlike Fratelli D'Italia Silvio wanted his successor to thrive and what he build continue after all it's his legacy for his son and daughter...plus to be honest, it's not that post 70's RAI was this great thing and many of the worst thing Mediaset had done has been bring from Rai and there are other private tv that will take the place.
Honestly IMVHO the big problem for the italian movie and media industry is a lot of provincialism and frankly the fact that for decades we have produced only two type of media, very low common comedy (like the cinepanettoni) or attempt to very high brown product, sometime it's something of succesfull like Nuovo Cinema Paradiso or Mediterreaneo but usually are very pretensious and boring, we basically lacked any genre movie for 3 decades, no sci-fi or fantasy, some sporadic attempt to action or thriller this has created a very sterile and autoreferential creative world, not considering the fact that the biggest tv outfit before the arrival of the streaming geared their product towards a very generic and older age type of viewer...and for older i mean old age.
A lot of the biggest success italian production were basically US type of movie but made in Italy with italian sensibilities, like 'Il Ciclone' that's basically a normal Rom Com but in Italy it was basically out of production for decades like eerything else (sure there were sporadic attempt/release but hardly amount at something)

Honestly you need a more serious competition to the duopoly Rai/Mediaset, maybe the Parmalat crack not happen and Odeon Tv become a national success or TeleMontecarlo is more succesfull.
On the movie side, you must try to keep the Bmovie production still alive as they were a good school for actors and directors and keep genre alive

 

[lukedalton]

That, or if we want a specific PoD, have Giovanni Agnelli randomly decide one day "hey, a random small-time entrapeneur that sang on cruises got in power through a media empire, why can't I too?", and go for more intellectual pursuits on the ground that he cannot compete in in the lighthearted entertaiment arena. Perhaps that could create enough media competition to ensure that, when Italodance fades away in Europe, it gets replaced by It-Pop or something.

Difficult, look at the Maneskin, very succesfull band even in the USA but here seem that the new sport is saying how awfull their music is and comment on their look...it make us come out as a litteraly country of old man that yell to the cloud because it's no more the good old time and the young today are up to no good

 

[Zireael]

A more stable, democratic Egypt could rise to global prominence in culture - the Egyptian cinema industry was once one of the most prolific in the world, and western audiences have been obsessed with Egypt for about 2500 years. With a sizable domestic consumer base and a treasure trove of culture and history to draw from, Egypt has to potential to be a cultural powerhouse if not for decades of economic instability and political repression.

According to my friend (Yemeni) who taught me some Arabic, Egyptian Arabic is widely exported (understood) outside of Egypt itself because of Egyptian cinema (which tbf includes mostly soap operas)
So yeah, Egypt is kinda already this but in the Arabophone sphere, I imagine it wouldn't take much to elevate it further

 

[dcharles]

I'm surprised, frankly, that Mexican culture doesn't have more widespread international cache. Great food, a bunch of robin hood type narcos, just as many great songs about said narcos. Plenty of sun and sin.

 

[Fulano]

Mexico was, more or less, a regional cultural power in Latin America a few years ago. Exporting movies, soap operas (telenovelas), comedy shows and so on, besides being the "epicenter" of the dub industry in the region. But all of this ended once the TV started to decline, and the Internet took over as the main reference in pop culture.

 

[Nyegosh]

A liberalized, suriviving Yugoslavia?

Maybe a royalist one, but even now ex-yu cultural output is nearly all garbage. 90s early-to-mid 00s produced some music of value (I often see foreigners like turbofolk, despised by the liberal class as kitschy garbage). Source: I live in ex-yu space. Cinematography is pure trash, though. Tries to copy American sitcoms too much, and even if not, all the lines tend to be weird in a "nobody does this, nobody says this" kind of way.

Speaking of that region, Turkish TV shows/soap operas were sort of popular, also Indian. The subcontinent especially could make for an invasion of this kind, helped along by the sizeable diaspora in the West.

One could consider Hong Kong films to be Chinese - but even then this was sort of an ephemeral phase. Making inroads isn't as difficult as is staying consistent.