Many people have claimed to be Jesus returned to earth, but none so far have managed to convince the majority of Christians to support them. What might help one of these Messiah claimants to gain widespread acceptance?
What would it take for someone to be accepted by the majority of Christians as the second coming?
- Thread starter Miranda Brawner
- Start date
-
- Tags
- jesus
Showing the marks of the crucifixion might help. After Jesus rose from the dead the disciples were able to touch his wounds.
Our modern age of social media and 24/7 news coverage probably doesn't lend itself very well to a second coming.
Are you talking about a person within the boundaries of reality being able to convince a majority of Christians, or are you talking about an actual supernatural event?
If the latter, it probably doesn't matter much what people think. If the former, I think it's nigh impossible given the nature of the world we inhabit.
Christians, Jews and Muslims all agree that Jesus existed. Only Christians believe that he died and was resurrected.
Muslims accept that Jesus was a Prophet of god. They also believe he will return, that he will aid the Mahdi and slay the antichrist, and that he will unite all the believers (including Christians and Muslims) and rule over an age of peace and prosperity. So ironically some of the first people to accept the second coming of Jesus could be Muslims.
It would have to involve supernatural stuff. That's the basis of Christian theology on the return of Jesus Christ. Nothing short of that would work at all. Sure, you may get large following but not all of Christianity especially if this "second coming" starts contradicting strongly held beliefs. And given the diversity of beliefs in Christianity, that is a given.
Anyone that accepts that Jesus existed believes that he died not just Christians, Jews and Muslims. The resurrection is the dispute.
I am reminded of Carl Sagan's comment that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” For a second coming to be widely accepted a few miracles need to happen.
Yeah, I agree that without some something supernatural, most people aren't going to be convinced. I think that at minimum, the Jesus claimant would need to demonstrate miraculous powers, especially healing powers. Even then, a lot of people, even if devout Christians or Muslims, would likely reject a Jesus candidate who doesn't share their moral values.
Philip
Donor
The traditional view of the Second Advent is that it is unmistakable. Christ returns with the full glory of God. The dead are raised and judged alongside the living. Etc. I'm not sure how you can fake that.
Philip
Donor
I don't think that would enough. Many Catholic saints are described as having exhibited the stigmata.
Last edited:
Good point. Yeah, I'd be much more inclined to believe someone's claims of divinity if they brought all of the dead back to life.
At the same time, going off the question at a very literal level, all you have to do is convince a majority of christians. It's conceivable that we're entering a future where illusions can be done so convincingly that a a significant amount of the world's population could be deceived. Our brains are becoming increasingly hackable.
Deleted member 92121
Stigmata is not enough, lots of people had or claimed to have had them. Performing Miracles is not enough. Thousands have claimed that ability, and Saints are accepted to poccess such skills. There is a very strict set of events that must occur for the over cautious Catholic church to accept someone as Christ King returned. Not to mention other Christians.
And that of course is "The parting of the skies, the rise of the good and pious to Paradise while the foul and wicked ones are dragged beneath. The Four Horsemen would rise to unleash chaos and suffering across the earth, just as damned souls would walk again followed by hell itself opening to reveal hordes of demons, lead by the son of the Dragon on earth himself! The Anti-Christ! Anathema! The Prince of Darkness! THEN, would Christ descend from Heaven with a mighty Host of Angels to engage in the great battle between good and evil! The dichotomy of existence! The Final and only true Struggle!"
At that point, any christian and non-chrsitian left on Earth would probably go: "Yeah, that's the dude."
And that of course is "The parting of the skies, the rise of the good and pious to Paradise while the foul and wicked ones are dragged beneath. The Four Horsemen would rise to unleash chaos and suffering across the earth, just as damned souls would walk again followed by hell itself opening to reveal hordes of demons, lead by the son of the Dragon on earth himself! The Anti-Christ! Anathema! The Prince of Darkness! THEN, would Christ descend from Heaven with a mighty Host of Angels to engage in the great battle between good and evil! The dichotomy of existence! The Final and only true Struggle!"
At that point, any christian and non-chrsitian left on Earth would probably go: "Yeah, that's the dude."
Hong Xiuquan proclaims himself the Second Coming rather than the "younger brother of Jesus" and is generally more competent/better advised than IOTL--perhaps Feng Yushan lives longer? Somehow they manage to take over the Mandate of Heaven without European involvement and launches major conversion programs as well as social reforms that avert the Chinese Revolutions. Given Chinese demographic trends over the 20th century the vast majority of the Chinese and thus a majority of the Christian world believes that Hong is the Second Coming.
Last edited:
Enough fanatic followers, a great skill at manipulating people, a genius strategic mind with the ability to spot others like him, and great longevity. With this, this "Second Coming of Christ" could drown the world in blood until all acknowledge he's Christ returned. When he dies, his followers could just hide the body, actively impersonate him (this would work for people he's "raised from the dead" as well), and say the millennial reign of Christ is continuing as normal. After a few centuries nobody will know the difference except for the highest members of the clergy.
And people wouldn't think of this guy in the same way people think of David Blaine, Criss Angel, etc. why? Normal people (including most Christians) would think they're a crazy good illusionist/magician while (some) Christians would think they're a false prophet or helped by Satan (like some fundies think David Blaine and Criss Angel are). If they actively promoted their claim of divinity with magic and illusions, then just like Uri Geller and all those televangelists like Peter Popoff who claim to have healing powers, they'd be torn a new one by whatever the era's version of James Randi is amongst other people.
And people wouldn't think of this guy in the same way people think of David Blaine, Criss Angel, etc. why? Normal people (including most Christians) would think they're a crazy good illusionist/magician while (some) Christians would think they're a false prophet or helped by Satan (like some fundies think David Blaine and Criss Angel are). If they actively promoted their claim of divinity with magic and illusions, then just like Uri Geller and all those televangelists like Peter Popoff who claim to have healing powers, they'd be torn a new one by whatever the era's version of James Randi is amongst other people.
Albert.Nik
Banned
A difficult question.
Conditions:
Virgin Birth: How would they react to a person born from a Virgin through artificial futuristic techniques?
Resseruction: Well,what qualifies a person dead or alive if consciousness is more or less produced by energy which can be recreated?
Goodness: What if that person is accepted as very good?
God: Er,what is the definition first of all and where do we even begin to investigate?
Conditions:
Virgin Birth: How would they react to a person born from a Virgin through artificial futuristic techniques?
Resseruction: Well,what qualifies a person dead or alive if consciousness is more or less produced by energy which can be recreated?
Goodness: What if that person is accepted as very good?
God: Er,what is the definition first of all and where do we even begin to investigate?
At the risk of upsetting Christians, Jesus never described himself as god. I imagine he'd be able to clarify that point for us.
Albert.Nik
Banned
Here is where it gets sticky. The definition enters a metaphysical paradox if put in terms of Christianity(or Islam for that matter). Trust me,there's no way to resolve. While we agree that not every claimant of divinity would have it true(I can relate to this,coming from India where divinity claimants are in numbers greater than thousands),it requires a great deal of advancement in Science to prove that a person claiming isn't either hallucinating(gone bonkers!) or lying/manipulating. Most today would be diagnosed as a mental illness with a known disorder which can be treated(even the religious would choose treatments). NDEs are the only things that have some credibility for science to investigate and most of the NDE experiencers don't claim exclusive divinity and so not relevant here. They are mostly Pantheistic or Pandeistic which a lot of us consider logical and no,NDEEs are not gone bonkers or lying. They are perfectly normal and hence that's why their experience matters to Science or Metaphysical investigations.
Last edited:
Philip
Donor
Not sure what this has to do with the original question. If you are thinking of the First Advent, then this question exposes a very flawed understanding of the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation. If you intend the Second Advent, then your question is irrelevant. He is expected to return in in the cloud with power and great glory, not as a newborn.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. So you refer to Christ's resurrection or to the resurrection of the dead on the last day?
Um, islam generally rejects the notion that Jesus died, "The servant and messenger of God, Jesus, remained with us as long as God willed until God raised him to Himself." So theologically speaking Jesus isnt dead in islam but only in ocultation by God.
Philip
Donor
Depends on how you read the Gospels and what you think they are meant to teach. If the that Apostles et al. taught that Jesus was God, and then used the Gospel stories to demonstrate this, then they are a clearly paint him as God. Claiming to be God is easy, but people are not likely to believe it. Behaving as God in a convincing way is difficult, but this is what the Gospels attempt to show, and this approach seems to have at least moderately successful.