What if the Greeks converted their 1903 Mannlicher 6.5mm rifles to 1905 SLRs?

[perfectgeneral]

Mannlicher 1905 Experimental Self-Loading Rifle

Just before his death, Mannlicher scaled up his 1901 carbine to use full-power 8mm ammo. It was a short-recoil action with a tilting block locking mechanism.

www.forgottenweapons.com

A prototype and patent exist. This is not ASB.

To reduce recoil an Arisaka 6.5mm of the same bullet size might be used in a smaller chamber? The AustroHungarians don't seem to be doing anything with the patent. Can we get the British to convert these rifles? A score in the first contract for testing. Two hundred in the second contract to chamber Arisaka rounds (ask Kynoch to make them rimless?). A final mass conversion order of 200,000 in Arisaka Type 38 6.5mm round chambering.

 

[Lascaris]

Mannlicher 1905 Experimental Self-Loading Rifle

Just before his death, Mannlicher scaled up his 1901 carbine to use full-power 8mm ammo. It was a short-recoil action with a tilting block locking mechanism.

www.forgottenweapons.com

A prototype and patent exist. This is not ASB.

To reduce recoil an Arisaka 6.5mm of the same bullet size might be used in a smaller chamber? The AustroHungarians don't seem to be doing anything with the patent. Can we get the British to convert these rifles? A score in the first contract for testing. Two hundred in the second contract to chamber Arisaka rounds (ask Kynoch to make them rimless?). A final mass conversion order of 200,000 in Arisaka Type 38 6.5mm round chambering.

Your best timing is IMO in 1924-25 when the Greeks looked for a new rifle and bought 125,000 new Mannlichers. If the 1905 has no technical issues and its price is comparable to bolt action rifles I don't see why it cannot be adopted. By 1940 you should have over a quarter million rifles around if you stick to actual OTL arms deliveries, 190,000 newly made and 71,000 converted.

And for added fun you get also this in 6.5mm by 1940 at least in prototype if not limited production given Greek experience with converting existing rifles TTL.

EPK (Pyrkal) machine gun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[perfectgeneral]

Your best timing is IMO in 1924-25 when the Greeks looked for a new rifle and bought 125,000 new Mannlichers. If the 1905 has no technical issues and its price is comparable to bolt action rifles I don't see why it cannot be adopted. By 1940 you should have over a quarter million rifles around if you stick to actual OTL arms deliveries, 190,000 newly made and 71,000 converted.

Could there be others interested in such a product? Italy? Japan? Britain?
What is the impact of more SLRs in WW2?

 

[Lascaris]

Could there be others interested in such a product? Italy? Japan? Britain?
What is the impact of more SLRs in WW2?

Everyone and his uncle was looking at semi-automatic rifles at this time. So the obvious questions is if getting an early, working rifle spurs faster development elsewhere, if the mechanism works for a larger round and WHO is building the Greek rifles in the first place, in OTL Greek rifles were built by Breda, Steyr and FN. The initial order of 100,000 in 1925 was built by Breda, as the Austrians were not allowed to export directly though there were persistent rumors the work was subcontracted to Steyr anyway. If the Greeks go to FN or Vickers , or Hotchkiss instead, since OTL Breda was not trusted, does this spur somewhat earlier development of MAS40 or what became FN49? I short of suspect the order goes to Vickers given ties with the Greek establishment at the time.

You'd think the Italian should be an obvious one to copy the mechanism, but Carcano was different so not certain it's practical for conversion at least and OTL they were caught in the larger round bandwagon trying to switch to 7.35mm.

The last one is whether having a working Semi-automatic Mannlicher affects in any way Dugout Doug in sticking with 7.72 instead of the 7mm Garand, examples will be going around after all and none could argue the 6.5x54 did not have excellent ballistic performance. That in turn gets the British in.

Otherwise off to 1940 and someone noting Vickers been building this nice semi-automatic rifle. Why can't we copy it for our own boys as well?

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Just to point out that the Greek 1903 Mannlicher is not a straight pull rifle so not suitable for conversion to an SLR as the OP suggests. They'd have to be newly built from scratch 1905 SLR's. I also feel the 5 round rotary magazine is insufficient for an SLR and would need to be changed to a higher capacity box magazine of at least 10 rounds and preferably more.

 

[perfectgeneral]

Just to point out that the Greek 1903 Mannlicher is not a straight pull rifle so not suitable for conversion to an SLR as the OP suggests. They'd have to be newly built from scratch 1905 SLR's. I also feel the 5 round rotary magazine is insufficient for an SLR and would need to be changed to a higher capacity box magazine of at least 10 rounds and preferably more.

Sorry if you got the impression that the receiver would in any way be reused in the adaptation. Stock and barrel is probably the extent of interoperability. I agree that a 5 round rotary magazine is insufficient, which is why I propose a magazine with a rotary feed to eliminate mag spring pressure. While this is "chrome" with hindsight, the original design was sensitive to this issue.