What If: No Irish Potato Famine
- Thread starter James the AH Fan
- Start date
Yep, it would be a fairly wide ranging POD with impact rippling out everywhere.
Not to mention such Irish Americans, Irish Australians, Irish New Zealanders and Irish Canadians being the UK's best friends and cheerleaders rather than as OTL the most hostile to close ties. The politics of every Anglophone former colony would be a heap different.
Of course, one cause of the famine was the Irish practice of partible inheritance, which ensured that even decent-sized farms would, within a few generations, be broken-up into small parcels of land incapable of supporting a family except under the most favourable circumstances. This became a particular problem as a result of the 'baby-boom' which occurred over the period 1790-1810 - though of course, if you have a baby-boom at one time, then you obviously have a 'death-boom' some decades down the line - which is why there would have been a high death-rate in the mid-1840's even without the famine.
Inheritance was also based on religion too.
Most Catholics did not own land. This was the intention of the above law to make sure as few Catholics as possible could own land and to make sure land and tenancy held by Catholics were divide to the point where they were uneconomic.
If Romans Catholics join the Anglican (church of Ireland) then inheriting land was much easier.
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That had been effectively defunct since the Papists Act of 1778, under which terms the restrictions on land ownership were removed, on an oath of allegiance.
Papists Act 1778 - Wikipedia
That had been effectively defunct since the Papists Act of 1778, under which terms the restrictions on land ownership were removed, on an oath of allegiance.
Papists Act 1778 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
An oath of allegiance was not something more Irish Catholics were willing to do.
Maybe this is why there is no pledge of allegiance in Irish schools, unlike America Schools.
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I wonder how a Catholic Church in the Anglosphere that isn't institutionally affected by the Famine would look like. Certainly in places like America, OTL the Irish Catholicism exported there could often be highly nationalistic, parochial in the worst sense of the word (which alienated many otherwise good Catholics who weren't Irish diaspora), and very, very austere even for Catholicism generally.
The catholic church n Ireland was anti nationalist in the 19th and Excommunication was automatic for anyone who joined an oath bound secret society like the IRB (The Fenians. )
This was part of the deal when the British government setup and paid for Maynooth seminary in Ireland. Maynooth went on to become the largest seminary in the world.
It was only after the war of independence started in Ireland that the Catholic church in Ireland become pro nationalist in Ireland.
“The Pope is the enemy of Irish Republicanism and Irish independence” Should we commemorate the Catholic Church’s role in the War of Independence?
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For starters, we can butterfly the Kennedys. Also me, as my ancestor likely fled the famine before settling down
1) might’ve been harder for the Irish to get independence in this timeline without the support they enjoyed from the massive Irish-American community, Irish-American politicians, Irish-American IRA and Irish Mobsters. These groups played a big role in keeping the U.S. either mostly neutral with sympathies towards Irish independence in the conflict with the UK and a significant role in providing the Irish nationalists funds and in some instances weapons and training.
2) because of the huge effect this will have on American history, the global timeline is going to be radically skewed which will of course return to affecting Ireland. Eg
I. No mass Irish immigration, no Know-Nothing Party- possibly Frémont wins in 1856?
II. An 1856 Civil War POD possible though not anywhere near inevitable; OR Frémont being elected before Bleeding Kansas and John Browne’s raid might actually prevent the civil war because the culture war over slavery hadn’t reached the same fever pitch it would’ve by 1860. Either way, American history is radically different.
III.No potato famine = no President Kennedy.
2) because of the huge effect this will have on American history, the global timeline is going to be radically skewed which will of course return to affecting Ireland. Eg
I. No mass Irish immigration, no Know-Nothing Party- possibly Frémont wins in 1856?
II. An 1856 Civil War POD possible though not anywhere near inevitable; OR Frémont being elected before Bleeding Kansas and John Browne’s raid might actually prevent the civil war because the culture war over slavery hadn’t reached the same fever pitch it would’ve by 1860. Either way, American history is radically different.
III.No potato famine = no President Kennedy.
I wonder what effect having a couple of million less Irish in America would make?
How much lower would the population of America be?
The idea of Catholicism being even slightly austere is mainly an Irish one (and derivatively American, but that's largely due to the influence of Irish immigrants on the US Catholic Church). If you look at Southern Europe, with its frothy baroque churches and its exuberant sentimentality, I don't think "austere" is the right word to describe it.