Welsh Assimilation
- Thread starter Tongera
- Start date
Wales has been under English influence for centuries and repressed to a point where them assimilating completely into the English culture probably wouldn't have big world-wide changes.
If you're looking to speed up cultural assimilation, harsher Laws in Wales Acts 1532-1542 can help. IOTL they abolished the Welsh legal system and banned the Welsh language from having any official role, but also allowed members representing Wales to be elected to Parliament and abolished the legal distinction between Welsh and English. Maybe having harsher acts that more actively persecute those identifying as Welsh will force them to assimilate faster (or maybe just backlash and encourage resistance to Anglicization.)
If you're looking to speed up cultural assimilation, harsher Laws in Wales Acts 1532-1542 can help. IOTL they abolished the Welsh legal system and banned the Welsh language from having any official role, but also allowed members representing Wales to be elected to Parliament and abolished the legal distinction between Welsh and English. Maybe having harsher acts that more actively persecute those identifying as Welsh will force them to assimilate faster (or maybe just backlash and encourage resistance to Anglicization.)
The only ways I can see the Welsh being "assimilated" would be to either "flood" Wales with English settlers (though there's not much incentive for this as Wales was poor economically until the early-mid 19th century, and even then most of the economic activity was in the south east) or to have some sort of genocide take place.
I think a PoD of ~1700 or later would be too late for either scenario, likely you would need a more aggressive Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain to "get rid" (i.e assimilate) the Welsh.
I think a PoD of ~1700 or later would be too late for either scenario, likely you would need a more aggressive Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain to "get rid" (i.e assimilate) the Welsh.
Alex Richards
Donor
Actually, I think there is a way to do this:
Have a similar situation to the Stuart/Hannovarian situation occur in England but with the Tudors and some new incoming dynasty (the Stuarts?). The Tudor pretender attempts to retake the throne, landing in Wales and drawing and army from there before marching east. Upon being defeated the Welsh are viewed as untrustworthy and something similar to the Highland Clearances occurs- massive oppression of Welsh, banning of lots of the cultural symbols etc.
The difficulty then is in preventing a welsh cultural revival, but the Scottish Gaelic one was an odd enough series of events OTL that the lack of 'Welsh law' and relative economic poverty compared to Scotland should help to avoid that.
At the very least, TTL could get Welsh Nationalism down to the sort of levels of support as Cornish OTL. A very small, very vocal minority who people assume are much more powerful than in reality.
Have a similar situation to the Stuart/Hannovarian situation occur in England but with the Tudors and some new incoming dynasty (the Stuarts?). The Tudor pretender attempts to retake the throne, landing in Wales and drawing and army from there before marching east. Upon being defeated the Welsh are viewed as untrustworthy and something similar to the Highland Clearances occurs- massive oppression of Welsh, banning of lots of the cultural symbols etc.
The difficulty then is in preventing a welsh cultural revival, but the Scottish Gaelic one was an odd enough series of events OTL that the lack of 'Welsh law' and relative economic poverty compared to Scotland should help to avoid that.
At the very least, TTL could get Welsh Nationalism down to the sort of levels of support as Cornish OTL. A very small, very vocal minority who people assume are much more powerful than in reality.
The suppression of the untrusted Scots Highlander clans after 1745, and the 'Highland Clearances' in which many of the people were forced out (which was because the land-owners decided that large-scale sheep-farming would be more profitable for them than the old crofting system, rather than for political reasons, and which didn't take place until the 19th century anyway), were two separate sets of events.
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Can we get Thomas Moores Utopia implemented in full? He advocated destroying the Welsh culture I think. There was a pretty good map challenge based on Utopia but I can't find it now.
OTL, only more so - there's a reason why the percentage of the population who were Welsh-speaking went from 90%+ in circa. 1800 to only about 20% or so now after all, and it wasn't because English was so much cooler and sexier.
But if you want a specific POD - Brad yr Llyfrau Gleision. OTL the outrage in response to the report was such that the government never implemented the more extreme recommendations of the report, but as your POD you can have them double down instead. English-only education mandatory, the non-Comformist sunday schools shut down unless they switch to English, Welsh language publishers and newspapers forcibly closed, and so on.
As to why the English would be so brutal? For an earlier POD there's always Rebecca. OTL, the authorities responded very sensibly to this movement which was a lot more violent than is often appreciated. What was in some places not far off a full scale peasant's revolt was treated more as an issue of public order and rioting, and it was dealt with pragmatically - a few high profile arrests and convictions, the law quietly changed to address the more reasonable concerns of the rioters, and the resulting decline in violence being used as an excuse to claim victory.
If the authorities instead went berserk - declaring martial law, executing people for treason, flooding the countryside with troops and so on, you could easily create a climate whereby it becomes mainstream establishment thought that a long-term restoration on law and order in Wales depends on properly extinguishing Welsh language and culture.
But if you want a specific POD - Brad yr Llyfrau Gleision. OTL the outrage in response to the report was such that the government never implemented the more extreme recommendations of the report, but as your POD you can have them double down instead. English-only education mandatory, the non-Comformist sunday schools shut down unless they switch to English, Welsh language publishers and newspapers forcibly closed, and so on.
As to why the English would be so brutal? For an earlier POD there's always Rebecca. OTL, the authorities responded very sensibly to this movement which was a lot more violent than is often appreciated. What was in some places not far off a full scale peasant's revolt was treated more as an issue of public order and rioting, and it was dealt with pragmatically - a few high profile arrests and convictions, the law quietly changed to address the more reasonable concerns of the rioters, and the resulting decline in violence being used as an excuse to claim victory.
If the authorities instead went berserk - declaring martial law, executing people for treason, flooding the countryside with troops and so on, you could easily create a climate whereby it becomes mainstream establishment thought that a long-term restoration on law and order in Wales depends on properly extinguishing Welsh language and culture.