Was Yeager justified?
- Thread starter Nerdlinger
- Start date
Lay of the ginger.Future existance of Jews has nothing to do with the fact that US attacks removed only a small part of colonisation fleet.
He's talking about gratitude toward the Race from humanity for sparing the Jews.
In terms of innocent people killed, the Race probably outdoes the Nazis. The Nazis were more "evil," yes, but it's not clear which side was worse.
JSmith
Banned
What I was objecting to is that you seem to think the death of millions of people was no big deal cause they have millions more. The Race are people too.Lay of the ginger.
But that's why the whole plan was idiotic. It would be one thing to launch all nation coordinated, full scale attack on fleet, hoping to destroy it. That might make the risk worth gambling future of humanity on. But to risk it all for something that not only couldn't but wasn't even expected to do much.....
It would be like US launching only few SLBMs at Murmansk, hoping that Soviets will not find out it was US who did it (since several nations had such weapons) and not retaliate with their entire arsenal against US mainland. US would risk existance of entire nation for a limited goal of removing large port. Not capital, not one of biggest cities, only something that would cause Soviets some problems but far from cripple them.
International (or Interplanetary) relations theory states that when a greater enemy emerges, opposing nations group together to retain the balance of power. Warren was probably relying on that logic in the unlikely event the US was found out.
Still, the point stands. Poland was clearly a very controversial topic for years in the years between Striking the Balance and Second Contact, it was probably clear that if the Nazis had an opportunity to go for Poland, they would take it.
In the end, using cold calculation, it isn't. European colonists were massacred from time to time by natives but in the end they prevailed simply because there was more of them in their homelands willing to go, prepared to take place of those killed.
No they aren't. They are aliens.
Note the bolded words. If Warren had any realistic uncertainty about what he was doing, he shouldn't have done it.
Not really, both treated genocide as a policy option, and at least the Nazis are human.
Maybe, but one does have to take risks. Although he did lack foresight, using the generation ships to put the entire Empire in range before taking action would have been a better move.
He saying they're "people" in that they're sentient beings just like humans.
The point is that this risk wasn't worth taking, and Warren should have seen that. Turtledovian logic aside, of course.
I'm leaving aside the question of whether Warren was justified, because that's not the purview of this thread.
Yeager however, has the blood of Indianapolis on his hands (At least in abstract, he didn't nuke Indianapolis himself, and the Race had other options they could have done). Without the reveal, any power could be blamed, and if all the powers felt that a united front was useful, it could have led the Race to attack somewhere relatively uninhabited just to prove the point, with further attacks in mind.
Warren's actions were illegal, not sanctioned by Congress, but the people who got murdered by the Race were utterly unaware of what happened, but were killed for it anyways.
Yeager however, has the blood of Indianapolis on his hands (At least in abstract, he didn't nuke Indianapolis himself, and the Race had other options they could have done). Without the reveal, any power could be blamed, and if all the powers felt that a united front was useful, it could have led the Race to attack somewhere relatively uninhabited just to prove the point, with further attacks in mind.
Warren's actions were illegal, not sanctioned by Congress, but the people who got murdered by the Race were utterly unaware of what happened, but were killed for it anyways.
Well he achieved his aims, and he would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that meddling Yeager, and that mangy dog!
Considering this it would make much more sense if 3 powers banded together, launched full scale attack on colonisation fleet and conquest one if something could be spared. Hoping they would destroy colonisation fleet and so not tip the scales in Race's favour then lean back and say to Atvar: "Yes, we all did it. If you retaliate you'll have to fight us all together. Your move."
Well, at least he's not expecting any gratitude for liberal nuking of major cities and famine as a result of introduction of invasive plant and animal species.
Then they are sentient beings. They are not people. Only humans are people.