To Imjin or Not: That is the Timeline

Wait so if Nurhaci has named his dynasty the Balhae dynasty then why is the newest post labeled "Yaman Corea"?

Also, "emperor of Corea" seems to imply parity with the other emperors of the region, so no vassalage to the Ming, I guess. Loss of a vassal coupled with rising assertiveness among the "barbarians" should set Ming on edge. I'm guessing that Wanli also hasn't given up on governing at this point in the timeline, so a look at Ming's reaction to developments in Korea would be cool :D

Oops, editing it.

And the barbarians are becoming more threatening. You'll see enough of a reaction soon. Very soon.
 
July 12, 1593 in the Forbidden City, Beijing, Ming China:​

“Shoot!” [1]

“Yeah!”

“I didn’t mean for the Jurchens to amass so much power!”

“Well, yeah.”

“So what can we do?”

“Sir,” Li Shunchen [2] said, raising his voice. “If I may suggest something...?”

“Who is this?” the Wanli Emperor asked, his voice booming.

“Your most magnificent gracious imperial majesty, I am only a humble admiral from Joseon.”

“Oh, I think I’ve heard of you. You were the one who won fourteen naval battles while still going undefeated, right?”

“Yeah,” Li said, blushing. “I came here from Corea because of the darned [3] Jurchens.”

“Oh, I see. So what’s your advice?”

“KILL THEM!” Li roared, angry. “KILL THEM ALL!”

“Er...anything else?”

“Take their lands! Be mean to them!”

“Hey,” Wanli said. “Aide, bring out the files we had on Jianzhou.”

“Yessir,” Jeong said, walking into the library. Wanli smiled - he had hired her when she came begging for help for the late Seonjo. It was the least he could do for the former king.

Two minutes later, she returned with a heavy book. “This documents our experiences in Jianzhou.”

“Thank you,” he said, flipping through the pages. “Right here.”

Li leaned over his shoulder, disregarding respect and customs. “It says that the western lands are fertile, while the eastern lands are basins.”

“Yes,” Wanli said. “I'm sure it would be good for all those farmers who are running out of land.”

Jeong nodded. Anything to get back at the Jurchens. “I agree.”

The ministers who sat on the ground in front of their emperor heard Wanli’s decision.

“I agree!” One shouted quickly.

“Me too!”

“Me three!”

“Me four!”

“Me five!”

“Me six!”

“Me seven!”

“Me eight!”

“Me nine!”

“Me ten!”

“Me....”

[1] Surprisingly, this one is NOT censored.
[2] This is who you think he is. I’m just using his Chinese name because, well, he’s in China. And also, for those people who don’t read these footnotes, it’ll be a MUCH better surprise when they figure out who this ‘Admiral Yi’ person is.
[3] This one WAS censored.
 
That happened after the Imjin War, when the bureaucracy refused to let him pick his heir. He eventually gave in and stopped doing government-stuff.

And yay, here's a fellow who's read San Guo!

Yeah I do.

It is depressing that there is no such timeline here, like if Ma Su did not mess up the things,.
 
Yeah I do.

It is depressing that there is no such timeline here, like if Ma Su did not mess up the things,.

To be honest, that's the purpose of this POD.

Hopefully, without the Imjin War, Wanli can get his favored heir in, since he has much more time to fight with the bureaucracy on this.

That way, he doesn't go AFK, since I'm fairly certain it might be too big of a POD to just make his favored son with the bureaucracy fight.
 
December 16, 1593 in Fushimi Castle, Toyotomi Cipangu:​

“Whoa how did that blob emerge?”

“Stop playing Europa Universalis!”

“I’m not! Seriously, though, that big yellow blob is creeping me out.”

“Where is this...blob?”

“On this map.”

Toyotomi Hideyoshi sighed. “The darned Jurchens are one step away from testing my patience...”

“And then what?”

“What?”

“What will you do when they test your patience?”

“Er...” Toyotomi said. “Er...I’ll...um...good question. I don’t have an answer.”

“Yeah, and the thing is - this yellow blob is only ten miles from Busan!”

“What? Set up a perimeter around Busan!”

“I’m sorry, milord, but it’s too late.”

“What? It’s never too late!”

“The Jurchens...their darned cavalry...”

“Our warrior spirit can defeat theirs!”

“No, you just don’t get it, do you, Toyotomi? The messengers came in. Busan has surrendered.”

Toyotomi looked struck. “What?”

“Busan has surrendered.”

“No...” he whispered. “Are the Jurchens really the end of the line?”

“Yes,” the servant said. “Yes.”

“Shut up! I’m trying to give an evil villain monologue!”

“Yessir. By the way, I have received word that Busan didn’t actually surrender.”

“Da frack?”

“Conflicting news, sir. One second, that messenger just said that Busan hasn’t surrendered. Okay, you can celebrate.”

“Yay!” Toyotomi exclaimed. “It’s sad, though, that I’m not delighted at the news of victories. I’m delighted at even small losses.”

“Yessir. Also, word is that the Ming have declared war on Jianzhou.”

“Da frack?”

“Yessir. It seems that the Kami is still on our side.”

Toyotomi sighed. “That much is true. Shall we send emissaries to the Ming for an alliance against the Jurchens?”

“Certainly, milord. It makes things...more interesting. Wait, the Ming have told us that they are willing to commit to alliance, and they’ve ended the blockade at Tsushima. I think they’re keeping that island, though.”

“Thanks a lot, Skippy,” Toyotomi said. “Wait, one second, remind me why I even hired you?”

“Shoot!” Skippy said. “Obliviate!”
 
March 14, 1594 in the Forbidden City, Beijing, China:​

“Okay,” Nurhaci said. “I’m willing to negotiate with you.”

The Wanli Emperor grinned. “I’m willing to negotiate with you, too.”

“Good!” Nurhaci said. “Now, I want Jianzhou back.”

“Not even a please?” The Wanli Emperor asked.

Nurhaci blushed. “Please?”

“Nope!” The Emperor said, popping the ‘p’.

“Wha-why?”

“It’s my land now, sucker!”

“Wha-no!”

“Yes!”

“No!”

“Yes!”

“Bu-but!”

“And you know what else I’ve done?” The Wanli Emperor asked, smirking.

“What?” Nurhaci asked, fearful of hearing the answer.

“A bunch of those Corean ships defected over to us,” the Emperor said. “This guy called Admiral Li joined our side, too. And we’ve ended the naval blockade. We’re just waiting for the Cipanguans to eat you alive, now.”

“N-no!”

“Y-yes!”

“B-but...what can I do to stop it?” Nurhaci asked.

“Huh?” The Emperor was confused. Surely it would be harder?

“W-what do I have to do?”

“Abdicate the Corean throne-”

“NOPE!” Nurhaci shouted, popping the ‘p’. “Not doing that.”

“Fine...er...”

“Can I at least have my people back with me here in Corea?” Nurhaci asked.

“Sure,” the Emperor said. “They’re being troublesome, anyways.”

“R-really?” Nurhaci said. “T-thank you so much!”

“It’s fine,” the Emperor said. “Also, I want you to renew your vassal status.”

“What? After all you’ve done to me-”

“I’ll stop helping the Cipanguans,” the Emperor said. “If you pledge allegiance to the flag of the Ming Dynasty.”

“Okay, okay,” Nurhaci said, giving in. “But I want aid.”

“You’ll get aid.”

“Good, good.”

“So you’re just giving up on Jianzhou?” the Emperor asked.

“Well, no. I’m sure my descendants can get it later, though.”

The Emperor snorted. “Good luck with that! After I finish transferring your people to northern Corea, Jianzhou is going to be eighty percent Han. Maybe a bit more than that!”

“Wha-what?”

“You agreed!” the Emperor cackled. “You agreed!”
 
~Timeskip until...~​
February 14, 1604 in the Forbidden City, Beijing, Ming China:

“So,” the Wanli Emperor began. “It seems that we’re going to have to come to an agreement.”

Nurhaci and Tokugawa both nodded. “Right,” Nurhaci said. “My country is tired of spending resources preparing for an eventual Chinese attack across the Yalu...only for it not to have happened in the past decade.”

Tokugawa snorted. “You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting for that offensive,” he said. “I’ve given up hope, to be honest.”

The Emperor grinned. “We’re here to deal with a peace treaty. I’m sick of funding the Japanese-”

“HEY!” Tokugawa shouted.

“-so I’m sure we’ll come to an agreement. Right, gentlemen?”

“Hm,” Tokugawa hummed. “We originally wanted control of Corea from the Coreans, but someone else got it.”

Nurhaci snorted. “I just want to be back in Jianzhou.”

“Too bad,” the emperor said. “You’re not getting them back. It’s a win-win for everyone, really! Now, sign here.”

Grumbling, the two other men signed and left the palace.

“Now,” the Wanli Emperor said, turning to his minister, pacing back and forth. “I want Changxun on the throne after me.”

“WHAT!?” Jin Fachen squawked. “But that’s not right-”

“Quiet,” the emperor hissed. “I gave in to some of your wishes to not join the Imjin War,” he shouted in anger. “I prosecuted a successful war against the Jurchens. I want Changxun as the next emperor, and I will get it!”

“E-er...” Jin muttered. “B-but-”

“No buts!” the emperor insisted. “He’s the heir, by my decree. Also, you guys should take a chill pill and stop acting like you have a stick up your-”

“WANLI!” the bureaucrats shouted, scandalized.

“Fine, fine,” the Wanli Emperor said dismissively, waving his arms. “But we’ll have to fix that.”

“Fix what?”

“You acting like you have a stick up your-”

“WE GET IT!”
 
April 4, 1605 in the Gyeongbokgung, Hanseong, Balhae Corea:​

“Damnit!” Nurhaci shouted. “Those pesky Japanese keep coming back!”

His new Corean aide, Kim Seong, sighed. “They’re at it again, aren’t they?”

“The Ming are only interested in protecting themselves,” Nurhaci explained. “We’re going to have to get help from somewhere.”

“But where?” Kim asked. “Admiral Yi escaped and brought his damn good turtle ships with him!”

“Yes, exactly!”

“Now, if only we could fit some gunpowder onto some ships-”

“Gunpowder!” Nurhaci breathed. “Gunpowder!”

Kim laughed, misunderstanding Nurhaci. “Yes, we can always ask China for their designs and maybe purchase-”

“No,” Nurhaci denied quickly. “We’ll play with those Europeans.”

“Yes,” Kim said. “I’ve heard that there are some D-deut-dut-”

“-Deutch?” Nurhaci asked. “The Deutch?”

“Y-yes,” Kim said. “The Deutch in the southern islands. And the Es-s-spa-span-”

“-Spainish?” Nurhaci asked. “The Spainish?”

“Y-yes,” Kim said. “They’re also in the southern islands. Then there’s those Po-port-portugues-”

“-Portuguese?” Nurhaci asked. “Ah, yes, those.”

“Damnit, I almost got a name correct!” Kim shouted. “Yes, those.”

Nurhaci grinned. “Come on, let’s get to work! You’ll go to China, buy a ship, come back, and we’ll send the ship south to the Deutch, and then we’ll come back with better ships. Then we’ll head further south to the Spanish, and then the Portuguese!”

“Yay!” Kim cheered. His family had grown unprecedentedly powerful after he had been chosen as Nurhaci’s advisor, and he had become extremely devoted to Nurhaci’s cause. He had been a lowly official without hope of rising up, but had somehow managed to rise up in position. He, like many former low-caste Coreans (especially the slaves), literally adored Nurhaci and the Jurchens, despite the warfare they had brought.
 
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Is it just me, or does nobody seriously like the idea of a westernized Korea?

I'm still weighing between modernized!Korea and westernized!Korea, to be honest. Difference is pretty big, since one emulates western culture, and the other doesn't necessarily. At least Korea would get off better than IOTL, too.
 
Is it just me, or does nobody seriously like the idea of a westernized Korea?

I'm still weighing between modernized!Korea and westernized!Korea, to be honest. Difference is pretty big, since one emulates western culture, and the other doesn't necessarily. At least Korea would get off better than IOTL, too.

Nah mate, I'm enjoying the shit out of this TL :D
 
Nah mate, I'm enjoying the shit out of this TL :D

Because they're now in Korea and not China, the Jurchens have a chance at not getting assimilated, since they're around a sixth of the population now.

This Korea will be unrecognizeable from OTL, given this huge demographic shift. In fact, Balhae Korea is going to end up extremely mixed, though I think that it'll be more Korean.

Unless, of course, the Ming sponsor a rebellion that succeeds. But as I've said earlier...

Westernization vs only Modernization
 
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Because they're now in Korea and not China, the Jurchens have a chance at not getting assimilated, since they're around a sixth of the population now.

This Korea will be unrecognizeable from OTL, given this huge demographic shift. In fact, Balhae Korea is going to end up extremely mixed, though I think that it'll be more Korean.

Unless, of course, the Ming sponsor a rebellion that succeeds. But as I've said earlier...

Westernization vs only Modernization

The Jurchens will remain a coherent cultural group, then?
That's awesome... but race relations are probably going to be more than a tad bitter.

A huge number of Jurchens are homeless, since their original homeland has been ceded to the Ming. They need somewhere to live. If they head to the countryside searching for land, they'll be competing with the Koreans there for it.

It seems like there's plenty of fertile soil here for a peasant revolt, a landed-gentry revolt, or even both in the first fractious years, and maybe even afterward...
 
The Jurchens will remain a coherent cultural group, then?
That's awesome... but race relations are probably going to be more than a tad bitter.

A huge number of Jurchens are homeless, since their original homeland has been ceded to the Ming. They need somewhere to live. If they head to the countryside searching for land, they'll be competing with the Koreans there for it.

It seems like there's plenty of fertile soil here for a peasant revolt, a landed-gentry revolt, or even both in the first fractious years, and maybe even afterward...

Eh, the peasants are being allowed into the bureaucracy en masse, while the slaves are freed. There's much more competition for land, true, which will lead to revolt.
 
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