TL-191: Navy Blue and Gray - Naval Forces of the USA and CSA
- Thread starter Sierra
- Start date
The Dutch was stationed in Aruba at to of the war kicking off, which would up falling into Confederate hands.
So Russia built at least one carrier in 191 cool
The SGW warships of the Russian Navy
Well.., more like attempted to build one is more accurate.
Well, I can say Russia's navy here is more powerful than the soviet navy if we compare the same period
The SGW warships of the Russian Navy
When did the Confederates attack the Dutch West Indies? They did seize Haiti early on.
So..., what sort of Amphibious Assault ships and landing craft would the Confederate come up with?
I think that first of all the classic Higgins Boat would be a Confederate invention. Given that it was derived from a craft used in the Louisiana Swamps, it's a natural fit. Considering their interests in the Caribbean, a wide variety as well. Possibly something like the Japanese Ka-Mi and Ka-Chi amphibious tanks
Another idea would be something like an LST, but heavier armed. The coastal islands and swamps of South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and the Gulf Coast would probably be hotbeds for diehard Red Negros and escapees from the population reductions, so having a cross between a medium range troop transport and a coastal gunboat would be very useful to the CSMC.
Probably, but we had both as well. PT boats and the like aren't amphibious. They can't put troops onto a beach efficiently. They are made for high speed attack missions. They could support Higgins style boats, but the flat bottoms will simply be better at landing troops in all respects.
As a follow on, I think that taking an LST style hull and mounting three or four great war surplus 3in guns on it would make for a pretty effective support ship for operations against Haiti and the Bahamas, as well as for COIN operations in the Confederate river networks
And something like the LCI or Landing Craft Infantry might also work for that role.
And the USN would have similar ships-they will be conducting amphibious operations in any war with the Confederacy.
Now here's a ship profile that is a little different
Manfred von Richthofen class Aircraft Carrier (1952-1953)
Specifications (As originally completed)
Weight: 54,570 long tons fully loaded
Propulsion: 20x 2-stroke double action MAN diesel engines
Range: 8,000 nautical miles
Speed: 33 knots
Sensors: 3x FuMO 61 and 2x FuMO 231 search radars, 2x FuMB 8 "Tanganyika" ECM suites, 2x FuMO 255 fire control radars
Armor:
* = A navalized derivative of the FW-190 with a Turboprop Engine
And something a little different, some background history to this class of carriers:
Upon the cessation of the hostilities in 1944, to say that the Kaiserliche Marine was in an interesting situation was an understatement. All of the vessels in it's inventory that survived the war were built between the early 1910s to the present, and were in varying states of condition, in addition, the Germans also came into possession of numerous British and French built vessels that came into their inventory (most notably with the former British carriers Victorious, Colossus, Glory, and Vengeance). By early 1945, the German High Command would decide to decommission much of the ships from the pre-war years as an economic measure and to redivert money to be used in other for more important things (like radar R&D). In the meantime, the draftsmen working for the Kaiserliche Marine along with the High Command would also get to work on designing new warships, which one of these projects would be for a new aircraft carrier. The new designs would incorporate the various lessons learned from the Second Great War, in terms of sensors, defensive armament, and hanger design, particularly drawing from examining the former British carriers as well as from their own experiences in carriers ops. In addition, several German dignitaries were invited to the tour the American carrier USS Rockall Bank, which at the time, both she and her sister Pittsburgh were the largest carriers in the world. In January 1948, as part of the German Navy's Naval Expansion and Revitalization Plan (or Plan zur Erweiterung und Revitalisierung der Marine/PEreMA), it was planned that over the next 10 years, the Germans would construct the following:
Manfred von Richthofen class Aircraft Carrier (1952-1953)
Specifications (As originally completed)
Weight: 54,570 long tons fully loaded
Propulsion: 20x 2-stroke double action MAN diesel engines
Range: 8,000 nautical miles
Speed: 33 knots
Sensors: 3x FuMO 61 and 2x FuMO 231 search radars, 2x FuMB 8 "Tanganyika" ECM suites, 2x FuMO 255 fire control radars
Armor:
- Belt: 132mm
- Lower Hanger Deck: 90mm
- Bulkheads: 88mm
- Flight Deck: 102mm
- 24 x 5-inch/42-caliber K/38 main guns (12x2)
- 32 x 55mm/77-caliber Flak M/46 AA guns
- 28 x Dorner Do-601 Komet A-1 Fighters
- 32 x Focke Wulf FW-562T-5 Attack Aircraft*
- 2 x Arado Ar 596 C-3 Early Warning Aircraft
- 4 x Arado Ar 596 C-5 ASW Aircraft
- 3 x Focke-Achgelis FA 391 Pfeifente helicopters
Ship | Builder | Laid Down | Launched | Commissioned | Decommissioned | Fate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| SMS Manfred von Richthofen | Friedrich Krupp Germaniawerft, Kiel | June 2nd, 1948 | March 19, 1951 | May 5th, 1952 | December 2, 1989 | Scrapped in Danzig, 1993-1994 |
| SMS Graf Zeppelin | Schichau-Werke, Danzig | August 11th, 1948 | June 5th, 1951 | August 28, 1952 | April 9, 1993 | Scrapped in Danzig, 1999-2000. |
| SMS Walther Wever | Kaiserliche Werft, Wilhelmshaven | November 22nd, 1948 | September 2, 1951 | April 8th, 1953 | October 4, 1989 | Legal limbo 1991-2003, scrapped in Cartagena, 2005-2007. |
And something a little different, some background history to this class of carriers:
Upon the cessation of the hostilities in 1944, to say that the Kaiserliche Marine was in an interesting situation was an understatement. All of the vessels in it's inventory that survived the war were built between the early 1910s to the present, and were in varying states of condition, in addition, the Germans also came into possession of numerous British and French built vessels that came into their inventory (most notably with the former British carriers Victorious, Colossus, Glory, and Vengeance). By early 1945, the German High Command would decide to decommission much of the ships from the pre-war years as an economic measure and to redivert money to be used in other for more important things (like radar R&D). In the meantime, the draftsmen working for the Kaiserliche Marine along with the High Command would also get to work on designing new warships, which one of these projects would be for a new aircraft carrier. The new designs would incorporate the various lessons learned from the Second Great War, in terms of sensors, defensive armament, and hanger design, particularly drawing from examining the former British carriers as well as from their own experiences in carriers ops. In addition, several German dignitaries were invited to the tour the American carrier USS Rockall Bank, which at the time, both she and her sister Pittsburgh were the largest carriers in the world. In January 1948, as part of the German Navy's Naval Expansion and Revitalization Plan (or Plan zur Erweiterung und Revitalisierung der Marine/PEreMA), it was planned that over the next 10 years, the Germans would construct the following:
- 3 Large Fleet Aircraft Carriers
- 8 Light Aircraft Carriers (for both ASW and Supporting Amphibious Operations)
- 8 Armored Cruisers or "Panzerschiff"
- 8 Heavy Cruiser
- 12 Light Cruiser (which were explicitly stated to have autoloading 5.9-inch DP guns)
- 56 Destroyers (8 of which were to built as Radar Picket vessels)
- 48 Torpedo Boats (with ASW capabilities in the design)
- 54 Ocean-Going Submarines
- 36 Coastal Submarines
- 12 Colonial Gunboats
- 2 Communications Relay Ships (for Colonial Duties)
- 12 Amphibious Assault Ships
- 2 Command Ships
- 2 Minelayers
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