The Shamrock and the Thistle

I previously posted the first two sections of this here.

Duly reposting for continuity's sake:

The Beginning

In the year 1315, Edward of England had drawn a great deal of men and supplies from his estates in Ireland for his war in Scotland. Because the war had had little success, the Irish tribes became rebellious against the English lords and their king. It was also in this year, and because of English draining of the island of men and resources, that Edward Bruce, brother of the Scottish king, was offered the High Kingship of Ireland by Brian O'Neill and his allies and vassals. The Scottish nobles, Robert, King of the Scots and Edward Bruce assembled at Ayr, where Edward's fleet also mustered. At the Assembly, the childless Robert made his brother, Edward, his heir. Edward Bruce arrived in Ireland in late spring and Brian O'Neill and his vassals and allies swore fealty to him and he was proclaimed High King of Ireland. Though at first only truly ruling Ulster, Bruce began to travel through Ireland, to have its kings and chiefs swear loyalty to him. As Bruce was traveling south, he was ambushed at the Moiry Pass by nobles who had previously sworn loyalty to him. Bruce and his army fought off the ambushers and killed their leaders.

And so he continued to travel through his kingdom, attacking enemy forces and lands. At Louth he encountered two opposing armies led by Irish nobles. The armies began testing each other. Neither could gain a clear advantage until Butler, one of the nobles opposed to Bruce, tripped and was injured. Thinking he had been struck by an arrow and would soon die, his army dispersed, dropping their weapons and running into town or joining de Burgh's army. In the chaos, Bruce gained a decisive advantage and flanked de Burgh, killing many of his men and capturing the earl. In return for sparing his life, de Burgh swore loyalty to Bruce and was his loyal vassal and ally until his death. Bruce's control over Ulster became stronger and he was emboldened by his victory. English lands in Ireland were, one-by-one, captured and given to Irish and Scottish nobles who were loyal to Edward Bruce. Within two years, Ireland was under his control and had acknowledged his rule.

The Welsh Adventure

With the Irish crown secured from internal threats, the Bruces began their next plan. Because England had not recognized Scotland's independence or the kingships of either Bruce, the king-brothers decided to take the fight to the English. Raids along the Scottish-English border had gained much booty but were largely ignored. Recently conquered and rebellious Wales seemed the perfect site for a distraction. The Gaelic leaders sent emmisaries to treat with town leaders and began preparations for the revolt. Meanwhile the English had assembled their army in the north, against Scotland. Seeing that Wales was lightly garrisoned, the time for revolt was perfect. Irish and Scottish troops landed in north Wales in support of local leaders. The Welsh and their allies eventually gained control over most of north Wales and much booty was sent to Ireland and Scotland. Deciding that keeping control over territories he already has is more important than enforcing his claim to Scotland, Edward of England begins moving his army south into Wales. The Celts and the English met in battle along the Severn River. After a day of indecisive battle the leaders decided to try negotiating again. After many hours, the Bruces and Edward I agreed to peace terms.

The Bruces were to return one quarter of their loot from the Welsh campaign to England. England recognized Scottish and Irish independence and their kings. The Gaels were to discontinue support for the rebelling Welsh. Man and Berwick-upon-Tweed are ceded to Scotland. The English, Scots and Irish kings all agreed that these were fair terms. The Welsh leaders were not invited to the meeting, for their forces had done poorly during the battle.

Robert, King of the Scots and Edward, High King of Ireland returned to their countries by ship. Edward Longshanks began crushing the Welsh and was killed in a battle two months later.
 
New section:

Many Funerals

Longshanks' death was a cause for celebration in Scotland and Ireland. No longer would his troops ravage their lands. His successor, Edward II was widely regarded as a weakling and as such was deemed unlikely to start any more wars. With the death of Robert the Bruce, this newfound peace was very nearly shattered. Though the Ayr Assembly of the two years before had recognized Edward as his brother's heir, once the scenario actuially happened, there was some resistance. The new Bruce was forced to leave his Irish capital of Dublin, heading for Scotland along with a small army of loyal and proven Scots and Irish. His landing in Scotland was uneventful, his march to Edinburgh about the same. His show of force proving that he takes his inheiritance seriously, no Scottish noble is willing to take the risk of claiming the throne for himself. On June 4th, 1317, Edward the Bruce was crowned King of Scotland. His first official act as king is to invite certain among the nobles to Ireland, in order to formalize the relationships between those two kingdoms, with himself as king of both. Without quite knowing what to expect, those invited begin to journey back to the Bruce's waiting fleet. Edward tarried a while, to be sure that the remaining nobles wouldn't attempt treason in his pending absence. Once he was sure of their loyalties, he rejoined his fleet and set sail to Ireland.

Once back in Ireland, he invited the Irish kings and chiefs to Dublin, to council with himself and the Scottish nobles. Used to their independence and bursting with pride, many saw his invitation as an order. Since they considered themselves equal in rank to their High King. Pride soon led to defiance, and defiance to rebellion as the kings of Munster and Connacht, as well as several important chiefs who remember all too well his initial subjugation of those who disputed his election. These kings and chiefs gathered an army and sent it to Dublin, meaning to capture the city and killing the Bruce. Quickly, he sent for the garrisons he'd left in Scotland and urged the Scots to send their troops as well. Only luck saved King Edward, as leadership disputes and weather greatly delayed the rebel army and bought time for the reinforcements to arrive. Once they did, Edward's army made short work of the rebels, drawn as they were from peasants, untrained for war and quick to fear. With the attacking army scattered, the victors pursued the leaders of the rebels, killing them to the last man.

'Though not a great threat to his rule, it did highlight certain weaknesses of the Irish system of governance. The High King resolved to fix these weaknesses and cement his rule.

_________________________________________

Well, what d'ya'll think of it so far?
 
This is worth continueing. I will follow it and try to contribute.
It makes me glad I found this board. You appear to be illustrating the veracity of Ogg's Rule (below).
 
Hmm... I'm trying to figure out how close I can make the two kingdoms under Edward Bruce. Personal union, yeah, but I'm wondering about some other things...
 

bard32

Banned
I previously posted the first two sections of this here.

Duly reposting for continuity's sake:

The Beginning

In the year 1315, Edward of England had drawn a great deal of men and supplies from his estates in Ireland for his war in Scotland. Because the war had had little success, the Irish tribes became rebellious against the English lords and their king. It was also in this year, and because of English draining of the island of men and resources, that Edward Bruce, brother of the Scottish king, was offered the High Kingship of Ireland by Brian O'Neill and his allies and vassals. The Scottish nobles, Robert, King of the Scots and Edward Bruce assembled at Ayr, where Edward's fleet also mustered. At the Assembly, the childless Robert made his brother, Edward, his heir. Edward Bruce arrived in Ireland in late spring and Brian O'Neill and his vassals and allies swore fealty to him and he was proclaimed High King of Ireland. Though at first only truly ruling Ulster, Bruce began to travel through Ireland, to have its kings and chiefs swear loyalty to him. As Bruce was traveling south, he was ambushed at the Moiry Pass by nobles who had previously sworn loyalty to him. Bruce and his army fought off the ambushers and killed their leaders.

And so he continued to travel through his kingdom, attacking enemy forces and lands. At Louth he encountered two opposing armies led by Irish nobles. The armies began testing each other. Neither could gain a clear advantage until Butler, one of the nobles opposed to Bruce, tripped and was injured. Thinking he had been struck by an arrow and would soon die, his army dispersed, dropping their weapons and running into town or joining de Burgh's army. In the chaos, Bruce gained a decisive advantage and flanked de Burgh, killing many of his men and capturing the earl. In return for sparing his life, de Burgh swore loyalty to Bruce and was his loyal vassal and ally until his death. Bruce's control over Ulster became stronger and he was emboldened by his victory. English lands in Ireland were, one-by-one, captured and given to Irish and Scottish nobles who were loyal to Edward Bruce. Within two years, Ireland was under his control and had acknowledged his rule.

The Welsh Adventure

With the Irish crown secured from internal threats, the Bruces began their next plan. Because England had not recognized Scotland's independence or the kingships of either Bruce, the king-brothers decided to take the fight to the English. Raids along the Scottish-English border had gained much booty but were largely ignored. Recently conquered and rebellious Wales seemed the perfect site for a distraction. The Gaelic leaders sent emmisaries to treat with town leaders and began preparations for the revolt. Meanwhile the English had assembled their army in the north, against Scotland. Seeing that Wales was lightly garrisoned, the time for revolt was perfect. Irish and Scottish troops landed in north Wales in support of local leaders. The Welsh and their allies eventually gained control over most of north Wales and much booty was sent to Ireland and Scotland. Deciding that keeping control over territories he already has is more important than enforcing his claim to Scotland, Edward of England begins moving his army south into Wales. The Celts and the English met in battle along the Severn River. After a day of indecisive battle the leaders decided to try negotiating again. After many hours, the Bruces and Edward I agreed to peace terms.

The Bruces were to return one quarter of their loot from the Welsh campaign to England. England recognized Scottish and Irish independence and their kings. The Gaels were to discontinue support for the rebelling Welsh. Man and Berwick-upon-Tweed are ceded to Scotland. The English, Scots and Irish kings all agreed that these were fair terms. The Welsh leaders were not invited to the meeting, for their forces had done poorly during the battle.

Robert, King of the Scots and Edward, High King of Ireland returned to their countries by ship. Edward Longshanks began crushing the Welsh and was killed in a battle two months later.

All right, I'll take a stab at this. Edward's son becomes king of England and High King of Ireland. Since he's a minor, his advisers would be the real power behind the throne and they'd be itching for a fight with Scotland.
 
All right, I'll take a stab at this. Edward's son becomes king of England and High King of Ireland. Since he's a minor, his advisers would be the real power behind the throne and they'd be itching for a fight with Scotland.

Um...

If you'll read, Longshank gave up what claim he had as Lord of Ireland. And yeah, he'll need a regent, thanks for bringing that up...

But I don't see them going for vengeance, they're going to have... Other problems.
 
Fascinating. I imagine he will divide this empire up between two sons? If not I foresee a very unstable Ireland as the Scots do not have the same ability to wherewithal that the English had.
 
Fascinating. I imagine he will divide this empire up between two sons? If not I foresee a very unstable Ireland as the Scots do not have the same ability to wherewithal that the English had.

Mmm... I'm having a hard time finding any info on his marriage or children. I'll need to do some more digging.

Very cool ES! We need more medieval Tls.


I'm actually not very informed when it comes to this era. Feudalism kinda bugs me actually.

Probably not the best thing to tell your audience...
 
Mmm... I'm having a hard time finding any info on his marriage or children. I'll need to do some more digging.




I'm actually not very informed when it comes to this era. Feudalism kinda bugs me actually.

Probably not the best thing to tell your audience...
I don't even know if Edward Bruce did marry.
 
A shorter section than most, and sorry for the delay.

Two Kingdoms, One King


The rebellion of the kings provided Edward with an excuse to reduce the power of the Irish kings as compared to his own. He created Earldoms out of the former kingdoms of Munster and Connacht. Towns and provinces which hadn't rebelled also saw their powers reduced to a similar level. None dared resist for fear that Edward would deal with them as he had dealt with the rebellion. Edward became King of Scotland and Ireland, dropping the 'High' from the latter title. Never again would there be a High King of Ireland.

Edward the Bruce remade the Parliament of Ireland on the same model as the Scottish Parliament. Both include members of the clergy, nobility and townsmen.
 
Medieval timelines are alway good to see. I've been toying with one in this period recently, so some of this stuff is fresh in my mind.

First: Edward Longshanks was Edward I, not Edward II, and he was dead in 1307, unless you are having him live a lot longer and if you're doing that, I wouldn't put much hope in there being an Edward Bruce to invade ireland in the first place. The Bruces would still be doing guerilla warfare from the hihglands.

There are a few problems with your scenario, though. None are insurmountable but you need a bit of clarification. Overall, you seem to be projecting later developments and ideas back to a situation where they didn't apply. Secondly, You seem to be giving Edward Bruce a lot more military skill than he showed OTL. (Maybe that's the real POD) You want a Celtic Kingdom but why would Edward Bruce be able to control Ireland when neither Edward I or Edward III were able to do so in OTL. The Kings of Scotland were barely able to control Scotland for most of the middle ages.

It seems to me you've set up a situation almost tailor-made for the English to beat on Scotland like a gong once Edward II's incompetance is removed. If the King of Ireland-Scotland stays in Ireland, the English invade and eventually scoop up the lowlands anyawy. If he stays in Scotland, The king of England gathers an army and re-imposes his authority on the Irish Anglo-Irish and Gaelic alike (pretty much as Richard II did in OTL). Either way, Edward Bruce is in trouble.

Furthermore, I think you seriously underestimate the attachment of the Anglo-Irish lords to the crown of England at this period. In OTL, Edward Bruce basically rampaged up and down the country for almost three years and the Anglo-Irish continued to fight him until they defeated him in 1318 at Faughart. You need a better reason for them to go over to Bruce than the fact that Edmund Butler tripped and fell. The Anglo-Irish still saw themselves as English at this point in time and that made all the difference. For Bruce to succeed, you'd need to break that allegiance.

For example, the earl of Ulster, Richard de Burgh, did NOT support Edwatd Bruce. He had no reason to:he had personal ties to Edward I, ties of language, culture and fealty to Edward II, had fought with in the Scottish campaigns, and any success by Bruce could only reduce the effective power base that Ulster had built up in Ulster and Connacht. Edward Bruce was supported by the O'Neills and that would be enough for the earl of Ulster to work against him. In OTL, Ulster was beaten by Bruce at Connor but still didn't switch sides...why would he switch here?

How did Robert the Bruce die anyway? It looks like he died more than ten years earlier than OTL. Why? Anyway, Robert the Bruce was not childless in 1315. His daughter, Marjorie was alive and married to Walter Stewart. They had no children yet but Marjorie was there. In OTL, the throne was to pass to her and her children, failing any male heirs of the body of Robert the Bruce, which would also be Richard de Burgh's grandchildren, if I remember correctly. Robert Stewart was born in 1316 and would have been the legitimate heir in 1317 at the death of Robert I, unless you're handwaving him out of existence.

On the marriage question: Edward Bruce had a dispensation to marry Isabella of Ross but hadn't done so by the time of his death in OTL.

Some points to consider. I'm looking forward to where you're going with this.

David
 
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