What if that CART and Grand Prix drivers form an organization together To further improve their position for improving safety across all of the sport.
The Man from Sao Paulo - Senna to Williams in 1992
- Thread starter FickleCrossroad
- Start date
Yeah, and this was AFTER changes were made, IOTL. Thus, don't expect even a surviving Senna and a stronger GPDA to butterfly incidents such as that. Prof Watkins will still be needed at the track.
Yeah, when I found out the day the Prof died last year, I drank pretty heavy that night. I was so grateful F1 had him for as long as he was there.
Prost always was very good, but he was a tactics man, not a raw talent. He'd beat the pants off of a lot of drivers, but against Senna or Schumacher he'd get roasted.
Prost was a lot faster than he's credited for. If we want to compare pure speed, we should compare the Prost of 1984 with the Senna of 88 and the Schumacher of 95.
Prost is the only guy who beat Senna on equal cars. He did it on points in 88, loosing the Championship because of rules then in place, again in 89, doing it Schummi style "I never expected his car to be there" and failed to do so in 90 (with a probably inferior car) because that time Senna did him a Schummi. He also beat Mansell when they were at Ferrari.
He didn't have the instant killer instinct that Senna and Schummi had from year one, and any one of those two could probably have won the title with Renault in 82 and 83, when Prost sometimes hesitated and lost the title. But when Prost was beaten by Lauda for the title in 84 he matured and became all about winning titles. What he never had was the kind of dominant ambition that would have allowed him to own a team the way Senna took over McLaren and Lotus and Schummi Benetton and Ferrari. That cost him a lot at Ferrari, and in 83 with a more agressive team mate might have costed him some peace of mind at Williams.
The thing is, where "Early Prost" was borderline legend-level fast, his racecraft, as it matured, ebbed. Was he a genius in the cockpit? Absolutely. I'd go as far as to say he was the smartest driver in F1 since the 80's, but something was missing once he started to content himself with being faster than his teammates, and stringing together season after season of tactical drives.
That's a really interesting approach.
I tried replying to this one from my phone yesterday, but the battery cut out as I was hitting "submit." In any case, I wrote both ideas on my wipe board, and I'm considering them to be good ideas for "post-tragedy band-aids." (specifically the exhaust, that could be done between race weekends in a shoddy manner, and improved through a season, whereas the spec-FI would be something to throw in the rules between seasons for an organization trying to keep a set formula.) Thanks!
Prost: 105 points
Senna: 94 points
World champion is... Ayrton Senna.
The reason why
Just think how Eddie Irvine felt when they changed the point system four years too late to help him. TTL will see the current OTL system adopted for 1994.
Possible by 2013 ITTL, but I haven't really looked into it yet. The Split gave the open-wheelers in the US Series too many fish to fry for too long, IOTL.
Next post coming up today.
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5 - 1992 - F1 Monte Carlo & Gilles Villeneuve
Round Six – L Grand Prix Automobile de Monaco – 31 May 1992 – Monte Carlo
The scene was set for one of racing’s crown jewels, set one week after one of the most thrilling Indy 500’s in memory. Ayrton Senna was poised with the FW14B to defend his wins over the past three Monaco Grand Prix, and tie Graham Hill for five total wins at the circuit over a span of six races. Senna remembered not to get overconfident with a superior car as he had in 1988, but with the conversation with Adrian Newey still fresh in his mind, he wanted to push the car he had to its limits to overtake Mansell in the standings. Nigel Mansell, on the other hand, had never won the race, and was looking to add his name to the list of winners at the legendary venue through the streets of Monte Carlo.
For the rest of the grid, drivers were hoping the Williams would falter, and finally allow somebody, anybody a victory after five straight races of Williams’ domination. Qualifying results were nothing new on the front row, however both McLarens tucked in behind their Williams rivals, with Senna on pole ahead of Mansell, Berger, and Patrese, with the Ferraris and Benettons mixed behind them.
The race started with a pileup for the back of the field, as Johnny Herbert stalled his Lotus at the starting lights, causing the Larousse of Gachot to drive into Herbert, causing a wreck that took out Herbert, Gachot, Wendlinger, Suzuki, and Martini before any of them had even crossed the line. The survivors were informed that the race was halted, and that they would form up in the pitlane and do a formation lap before resetting the grid at the end of the second lap.
At the restart, Mansell charged, passing Senna, with Schumacher dispatching Patrese and hounding Berger up the hill. By mid-race, the top ten were Mansell, Senna, Schumacher, Berger, Alesi, Patrese, Brundle, Capelli, Alboreto, and de Cesaris.
Attrition took its toll through the latter half of the race, with gearbox issues prolific as the cars had to endure the many shifts of the street circuit. Several drivers also bungled the twisty hills, and by the final lap, Mansell and Senna were half a minute ahead of the rest of the field, picking their way through the backmarkers. Senna pipped Mansell at the exit of the tunnel, and made the move stick, to Mansell’s dismay, and Renault’s relief that their top drivers managed to keep their cars intact for yet another race. Once again, Schumacher rounded out the podium, with Capelli, Alboreto, and Comas all finishing in the points.
Monte Carlo – 01 June 1992
Departing early in the morning following the race at Monte Carlo, Mika Hakkinen was frustrated at the lack of success he’d had so far in the season, with only two points to his name after six races. He’d expected more from the Lotus, but the finishing touches to the 107 were slow coming, just to debut in time for the gearbox torture chamber of the old twisting street circuit. Mika knew that Lotus’ window for being an effective team in the mid-pack, let alone the front, was rapidly coming to an end, and this was the season in which he’d have to audition for a quicker, more secure ride. Talk of improving the active suspension was twisting the Lotus budget into knots, and there was little hope that the team would survive through the remainder of the decade. This left him in the quandary of using the next ten races as best he could, and targeted an average of a point a race, thinking that twelve points in a season dominated by the Williams and Benettons might be good enough to put him in the mix with the Ferrari drivers at the end of the season. Around and round his mind went, wondering where he should go next. McLaren was starting to struggle so mightily without Senna, that he was starting to doubt his previous desire to sign with the Woking team, but he may not have a choice in the matter . Time will only tell, but he knew it was running out.
Round Seven – Canadian Grand Prix – 14 June 1992 – Gilles Villeneuve
The return to North America brought no change from the status quo as Senna took pole ahead of Mansell. Outside of the usual presence of Benetton, McLaren, and Ferrari in the top ten slots, Lotus made a strong showing and filled the fifth row. As the lights went out, there was no repeat of the mid-pack fiasco that occurred in Monaco, and the Williams cars dueled their way through the first twenty laps. Mansell got the knack of hanging on Senna’s rear wing through the many sharp turns of Gilles Villeneuve, and thus pressured Senna into taking an earlier stop for tires, allowing Mansell to put in three flying laps and build a lead of two seconds by the time he left the pit lane.
Unfortunately for Senna, his problems were just beginning. As he attempted to close the gap to his teammate, he started to catch the backmarkers, who kept the gap static at two seconds. Further back in the field, the McLarens were best of the rest, with Berger ahead of Patrese who was in a fight for fourth with Schumacher, in a statement race after double-DNF’s in the last two races. Patrese caught a break when Schumacher encountered clutch issues, bringing the young German his first DNF of the season. Hakkinen, Brundle, and Alesi spent the closing stages of the race fighting over the two final points-paying positions, as Capelli and Herbert retired early.
With three laps to go, Senna’s championship lead was surrendered early when he went off and beached the car chasing down Mansell. The victor’s mustache was quivering in vengeful delight, as he finally surpassed his irritating former teammate Nelson Piquet, tying the great Fangio at 24 all-time wins. In his wake, McLaren rounded out the podium, followed by Brundle, Hakkinen, and Alesi.
Points after seven races:
Drivers’:
Mansell - 54
Senna – 46
Schumacher – 26
Berger - 13
Patrese – 12
Capelli – 7
Alboreto & Brundle – 6
Hakkinen - 4
Alesi – 3
Wendlinger, Herbert, Morbidelli, Groulliard, & Comas – 1
Constructors’:
Williams - 100
Benetton - 32
McLaren - 25
Ferrari - 10
Footwork - 6
Lotus - 5
Minardi, March, Tyrrell, Ligier - 1
The scene was set for one of racing’s crown jewels, set one week after one of the most thrilling Indy 500’s in memory. Ayrton Senna was poised with the FW14B to defend his wins over the past three Monaco Grand Prix, and tie Graham Hill for five total wins at the circuit over a span of six races. Senna remembered not to get overconfident with a superior car as he had in 1988, but with the conversation with Adrian Newey still fresh in his mind, he wanted to push the car he had to its limits to overtake Mansell in the standings. Nigel Mansell, on the other hand, had never won the race, and was looking to add his name to the list of winners at the legendary venue through the streets of Monte Carlo.
For the rest of the grid, drivers were hoping the Williams would falter, and finally allow somebody, anybody a victory after five straight races of Williams’ domination. Qualifying results were nothing new on the front row, however both McLarens tucked in behind their Williams rivals, with Senna on pole ahead of Mansell, Berger, and Patrese, with the Ferraris and Benettons mixed behind them.
The race started with a pileup for the back of the field, as Johnny Herbert stalled his Lotus at the starting lights, causing the Larousse of Gachot to drive into Herbert, causing a wreck that took out Herbert, Gachot, Wendlinger, Suzuki, and Martini before any of them had even crossed the line. The survivors were informed that the race was halted, and that they would form up in the pitlane and do a formation lap before resetting the grid at the end of the second lap.
At the restart, Mansell charged, passing Senna, with Schumacher dispatching Patrese and hounding Berger up the hill. By mid-race, the top ten were Mansell, Senna, Schumacher, Berger, Alesi, Patrese, Brundle, Capelli, Alboreto, and de Cesaris.
Attrition took its toll through the latter half of the race, with gearbox issues prolific as the cars had to endure the many shifts of the street circuit. Several drivers also bungled the twisty hills, and by the final lap, Mansell and Senna were half a minute ahead of the rest of the field, picking their way through the backmarkers. Senna pipped Mansell at the exit of the tunnel, and made the move stick, to Mansell’s dismay, and Renault’s relief that their top drivers managed to keep their cars intact for yet another race. Once again, Schumacher rounded out the podium, with Capelli, Alboreto, and Comas all finishing in the points.
Monte Carlo – 01 June 1992
Departing early in the morning following the race at Monte Carlo, Mika Hakkinen was frustrated at the lack of success he’d had so far in the season, with only two points to his name after six races. He’d expected more from the Lotus, but the finishing touches to the 107 were slow coming, just to debut in time for the gearbox torture chamber of the old twisting street circuit. Mika knew that Lotus’ window for being an effective team in the mid-pack, let alone the front, was rapidly coming to an end, and this was the season in which he’d have to audition for a quicker, more secure ride. Talk of improving the active suspension was twisting the Lotus budget into knots, and there was little hope that the team would survive through the remainder of the decade. This left him in the quandary of using the next ten races as best he could, and targeted an average of a point a race, thinking that twelve points in a season dominated by the Williams and Benettons might be good enough to put him in the mix with the Ferrari drivers at the end of the season. Around and round his mind went, wondering where he should go next. McLaren was starting to struggle so mightily without Senna, that he was starting to doubt his previous desire to sign with the Woking team, but he may not have a choice in the matter . Time will only tell, but he knew it was running out.
Round Seven – Canadian Grand Prix – 14 June 1992 – Gilles Villeneuve
The return to North America brought no change from the status quo as Senna took pole ahead of Mansell. Outside of the usual presence of Benetton, McLaren, and Ferrari in the top ten slots, Lotus made a strong showing and filled the fifth row. As the lights went out, there was no repeat of the mid-pack fiasco that occurred in Monaco, and the Williams cars dueled their way through the first twenty laps. Mansell got the knack of hanging on Senna’s rear wing through the many sharp turns of Gilles Villeneuve, and thus pressured Senna into taking an earlier stop for tires, allowing Mansell to put in three flying laps and build a lead of two seconds by the time he left the pit lane.
Unfortunately for Senna, his problems were just beginning. As he attempted to close the gap to his teammate, he started to catch the backmarkers, who kept the gap static at two seconds. Further back in the field, the McLarens were best of the rest, with Berger ahead of Patrese who was in a fight for fourth with Schumacher, in a statement race after double-DNF’s in the last two races. Patrese caught a break when Schumacher encountered clutch issues, bringing the young German his first DNF of the season. Hakkinen, Brundle, and Alesi spent the closing stages of the race fighting over the two final points-paying positions, as Capelli and Herbert retired early.
With three laps to go, Senna’s championship lead was surrendered early when he went off and beached the car chasing down Mansell. The victor’s mustache was quivering in vengeful delight, as he finally surpassed his irritating former teammate Nelson Piquet, tying the great Fangio at 24 all-time wins. In his wake, McLaren rounded out the podium, followed by Brundle, Hakkinen, and Alesi.
Points after seven races:
Drivers’:
Mansell - 54
Senna – 46
Schumacher – 26
Berger - 13
Patrese – 12
Capelli – 7
Alboreto & Brundle – 6
Hakkinen - 4
Alesi – 3
Wendlinger, Herbert, Morbidelli, Groulliard, & Comas – 1
Constructors’:
Williams - 100
Benetton - 32
McLaren - 25
Ferrari - 10
Footwork - 6
Lotus - 5
Minardi, March, Tyrrell, Ligier - 1
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spdoyle said:
I imagine you'd have thought of them eventually.If you think that system is nutty, I invite you to examine historical examples. FIA's scoring has always been insane.spdoyle said:
Right up til the time they finally stabilized on the 9-6-4 system. (BTW, did you know, before Monaco 1923, grid spots were selected by lottery?)BTW, congrats on the event narration. It has a really authentic feel to it.
Well So Far So Good, Ayrton Senna is Doing Well after Canada but Next On The Schedule we are going to France at Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours so I Hope Ayrton Senna may get the Checkered Flag to Claim the First Place Podium, I'm Excited for this!
If you think that system is nutty, I invite you to examine historical examples. FIA's scoring has always been insane.
BTW, congrats on the event narration. It has a really authentic feel to it.
Oh yeah, I've looked through that for inspiration on where to go. My only beef w/ the current system is that career stats are meaningless when looking at a total points haul and comparing to the pre-2010 legends. Still, I like how it provides a better measuring stick for the backmarkers and midfielders. I'd been tempted to adopt a CART-style system, but points for pole, (You START P1, ahead of a first-lap wreck, what extra bonus do you need?) and most-laps-led, (seems like a consolation prize for those who can't finish,) turned me off.
I'm glad you like it! I'm shooting for a wikipedia feel, like one of the better season synopses. Thanks for the compliment.
Senna in the rain. Hmmm...
I miss Magny-Cours, I wish they kept it on the schedule, after a few minor alterations. Take the first couple lefts and make them a mirrored pair to Estoril, get rid of the chicane between 6 & 8, (making that another longish straight,) add a twisty section between 12 & 14 using some new track & some of the other parts of the circuit, and round off the final turns before the front straight. Isn't that on a small rise? A final turn that's just a sharp 90-degree right with a little drop would be awesome.
Oh, if anyone has ideas for an alternate Indy-F1 circuit, feel free to suggest them. My stipulatons are:
-Anticlockwise orientation
-Oval course used between just after the exit of oval turn four through at least oval turn two, if not the whole backstretch.
-Golf course can be deleted, but leave enough infield by turns 3 & 4 for an NFL stadium. (Not a set-in-stone plan yet, but I'm kicking around with the idea of moving the Colts there instead of the mutant warehouse monstrosity of LucasOil Stadium.) My only hurdle in my mind is not making the thing so tall it blocks the line of sight for too many fans.
-Total length under 5mi. Gotta let the fans catch at least a 40-lap race.
I'm shooting to write in a character who's a competitor to Tilke, someone who designs brutal tracks with a proper flow to them. Tilke has all the right ingredients, but with exceptions to Shanghai & Sepang, they just seem unnatural to me, (willing to entertain debate here.) I may be an oddball here, but I'm actually insulted by COTA, as it's like he was saying, "Since you Yanks can't do anything original that's worth looking at, and since you love 'sampling' so much, here's a 'greatest hits' track, with no original flavor."
The USGP won't be at Indy much longer than OTL, expect it to move somewhere else by 2013. Current thoughts are Watkins Glen, Elkhart Lake, & Laguna Seca, (upgraded to world-class.)
With the ALT-Indy, nevermind the NFL sized stadium, though something like a stadium section which could host concerts, would be ideal. I'm thinking Rock-am-Ring at Indy.
As far as outright track designs go, I'd prefer Elkhart Lake, but it's the farthest from a densely populated area out of the three. Indy is a superior geographic position to all three, but it by nature is flat, and thus hindered by its own character. Watkins Glen and Laguna Seca have all sorts of character, but the entire circuits need updated and widened for modern F1. If someone had $100M+ to upgrade one of the three natural road courses, Watkins Glen would make the most sense. It has the character and history, plus it's not horribly far from the Northeast Corridor.
Laguna Seca's problem is it would cost the most to be improved to world-class. An investor trying to get the most for the money would go for the Glen.
6 - 1992 - F1 Paris Discussions & Magny Cours
Btw, thanks to phx for that link. I've been perusing it.
I delayed updating yesterday because of OTL racing. If you caught the F1 race, I was trying to keep from an anti-team orders rant - which at it's peak, might have got me kicked, (I was that pissed off and moderately intoxicated.)
The IndyCar race, OTOH, made me only yell at Hildebrand. (Out of the front runners, I'm a Power fan, otherwise I have Rahal, Kimball, and Hinchcliffe biases.) Though IndyCar is looking for the female hype of a Danica Patrick through Simona de Silvestro, as a lifelong fan, I'm glad the right women stayed. (Though I wish Legge would get a ride and Fisher never went behind the pit-wall.) de Silvestro showed some game, I knew she was on options, but SCUFFED options, fighting that hard? I wish I could give her a high-five after that, after getting screwed over with the Lotus disaster last year, she has some racing karma points she deserves to cash in.
Anyway, to channel that frustration in a mature manner, I hearby open the floor on this TL to suggestions on how to realistically attack the team-orders BS that's been seen in F1. After yesterday, I'm past the point of agitation where it's an issue in the second of nineteen races. My idea is a tighter distribution of shared revenue, where a WCC ranking has far less of an impact. I don't know how to push that into a Concorde Agreement, though, but I was thinking:
90% based on race weekends contested, (to include teams who attempt and fail to qualify.)
10% based on WCC points. Take for example this season, with 1,919 total points at stake. Every point would be worth .005211...% of the pot for that year. Yeah, it'll add up, but I want EVERY team getting a nearly equal chunk, even the teams that can't crack the 107% rule, but show up anyway.
That aside... Here ya go. Depending on what I can put out over the next few days, this might be a three-update week.
FIA Headquarters – 01 July 1992 – Paris
Prior to the eighth round of the championship, the transitioning FISA/FIA leadership of Jean-Marie Balestre and Max Mosely invited Bernie Ecclestone to the FIA headquarters in Paris, looking for avenues to make the most of the transition to a F1 with long-term health. Ecclestone had mentioned the possibility of using commercial rights, to maximize revenue and spread enough to the teams to help keep them intact, however he was still unsure how much he was willing to allow so he could keep a healthy profit. Balestre, effectively a caretaker over the coming months, asked Mosley what his thoughts were on the current championship. To that, Mosley replied, “It’s not like we haven’t seen years of utter domination before, but this time, the inclusion of electronics is spiking costs across the field to the point where subsidizing the teams may be self-defeating. Are we on the precipice of operating budgets of one hundred million dollars being the cost to compete effectively? We’ll see a grid of eight teams by the end of the decade if this keeps up.”
Balestre grunted, and admitted, “This is like the turbo era on steroids, the difference between the haves and have nots is so wide you could drive a train through. What are you planning?”
“Eliminate all, or nearly all of the electronic aids, perhaps bring back refueling, and look into ways to cap spending subtly, as the big teams would balk at having to fight with six rivals rather than two or three every year for championships. I’m not against tweaking the point system either, ideally extending points to eighth or tenth, depending on what could work there. Bernie, could you see any of this working? How can we get more viewers out of this?” Mosley pivoted in his reply, hoping for an out he could use and hammer down as early as possible.
“Bringing back refueling would help, as long as fuel strategy was a big enough part of the draw that you could keep the interest of those who might just turn off after a season like this, though you know the teams, corners will be cut somewhere and fires would be unwanted attention. Adjusting the points would work, but you’d need a season where one man dominates so thoroughly that it’s locked up with two or three races to spare. I agree wholeheartedly on the matter of banning the aids, but we should ask around the paddock, especially those who’ve been around awhile. Get the big names on board, and see if we might be missing something. We’ve had a few years where everything’s started to spread out, and the transition might be rocky.” Ecclestone coughed, and then added, “If we can limit costs, we could expand, perhaps a twenty-race season in the next fifteen, twenty years would be feasible if we could pursue parity? For now, though, let’s try to make the sport so it’s not like a video game. I expect we’re talking ‘94, not next year, right? Do this too soon and you will kill off the smaller teams. Hell, I know Brabham is going under this year,” at that he paused, and was visibly saddened by the resignation, “we lost Coloni, and March may, may I add, make it to Adelaide. It’s time for adjustment, but let’s get some input from the teams and drivers. Mansell’s probably only going to be around a season or two, same with Alboreto and Patrese, so we should be talking to them no matter what, having less to lose. Senna too, and a couple of the newer drivers like Alesi and Schumacher wouldn’t hurt.”
“I’m in agreement with that. Jean-Marie, do you think it could work from a management persepective?” Mosley asked?
“I don’t see if you have a choice. I love this post, and will miss it, but I don’t envy your position right now. Pull the tail too hard, and you’ll get bitten. Bernie has a point, get input from the drivers, maybe the outgoing constructors as well. If we can keep a full grid – which won’t be easy with this recession, we need to make sure that grid can remain established, with room to maneuver if the economy dips again.” Balestre sighed, relieved this was less and less his mess, and soon to be none at all. “Yes, let’s do it that way.”
“Let’s.” Mosley said, and concluded the meeting.
Round Eight – French Grand Prix – 05 July 1992 – Magny-Cours
Returning to Europe, there was more of a surprise attempting to arrive at the track than there was through the qualifying sessions, as a truck blockade impeded teams from reaching the track with time to spare. Every team made it trackside, however the delays meant that there was less time to tweak setups, which led to a slightly jumbled qualifying order behind the Williams duo driving on Renault’s home turf. The stunned crowd in the stands on Saturday could not believe that Alesi managed to put his Ferrari on the second row, behind Mansell’s pole position. Benetton and McLaren split the following four positions, with the Lotuses, Capelli, and the Ligiers making a stronger showing at their home track.
Sunday brought a dry start with dark, ominous gray clouds overhead, and the drivers knew it wasn’t a matter of if, it was a matter of when the rain would start. Perhaps it was nerves about the weather, racing at home, or being one of the lucky ones that found a fast setup quickly, but Grouilliard stalled his Tyrrell on the grid. This time, the Mess of Monaco did not duplicate itself on its French neighbor, however it spread the field out before the rain began. The rain began gently for a couple of laps, and then rapidly picked up intensity, just at the worst possible time for Williams, as neither front-runner could see far into the spray. As they came to Grouillard, he could not see that there were two Williams behind him, not one, until too late. After making room for Mansell, he had already began to move back over before making contact with Senna, taking both drivers out for the duration, and forcing both to walk back to the paddock in a downpour.
That lap 15 collision wasn’t the only incident on the track that lap, nearly a dozen cars all went off or collided with one another. The race was red-flagged, and the remaining drivers awaited the end of the heaviest rain to go back onto the track. After an hour, racing resumed from the grid, with finishes to be scored on aggregate time. As Mansell was the only driver with a clear track from the outset, he distanced himself for the first several laps after racing resumed. Schumacher began to reel him in, but ran out of time at the end. Attrition and driver error shrinking the field further so there was only nine cars left running by the checkered flag. Mansell won from Schumacher, Hakkinen, Comas, Herbert, and Lehto.
Points after eight races:
Drivers’:
Mansell – 64
Senna - 46
Schumacher – 32
Berger - 13
Patrese - 12
Capelli – 7
Alboreto & Brundle – 6
Hakkinen – 8
Alesi – 3
Comas – 4
Herbert - 3
Wendlinger, Morbidelli, Groulliard, & Lehto – 1
Constructors'
Williams - 110
Benetton - 38
McLaren - 25
Lotus - 11
Ferrari - 10
Footwork - 6
Ligier - 4
Minardi, March, Tyrrell, & Dallara - 1
I delayed updating yesterday because of OTL racing. If you caught the F1 race, I was trying to keep from an anti-team orders rant - which at it's peak, might have got me kicked, (I was that pissed off and moderately intoxicated.)
The IndyCar race, OTOH, made me only yell at Hildebrand. (Out of the front runners, I'm a Power fan, otherwise I have Rahal, Kimball, and Hinchcliffe biases.) Though IndyCar is looking for the female hype of a Danica Patrick through Simona de Silvestro, as a lifelong fan, I'm glad the right women stayed. (Though I wish Legge would get a ride and Fisher never went behind the pit-wall.) de Silvestro showed some game, I knew she was on options, but SCUFFED options, fighting that hard? I wish I could give her a high-five after that, after getting screwed over with the Lotus disaster last year, she has some racing karma points she deserves to cash in.
Anyway, to channel that frustration in a mature manner, I hearby open the floor on this TL to suggestions on how to realistically attack the team-orders BS that's been seen in F1. After yesterday, I'm past the point of agitation where it's an issue in the second of nineteen races. My idea is a tighter distribution of shared revenue, where a WCC ranking has far less of an impact. I don't know how to push that into a Concorde Agreement, though, but I was thinking:
90% based on race weekends contested, (to include teams who attempt and fail to qualify.)
10% based on WCC points. Take for example this season, with 1,919 total points at stake. Every point would be worth .005211...% of the pot for that year. Yeah, it'll add up, but I want EVERY team getting a nearly equal chunk, even the teams that can't crack the 107% rule, but show up anyway.
That aside... Here ya go. Depending on what I can put out over the next few days, this might be a three-update week.
FIA Headquarters – 01 July 1992 – Paris
Prior to the eighth round of the championship, the transitioning FISA/FIA leadership of Jean-Marie Balestre and Max Mosely invited Bernie Ecclestone to the FIA headquarters in Paris, looking for avenues to make the most of the transition to a F1 with long-term health. Ecclestone had mentioned the possibility of using commercial rights, to maximize revenue and spread enough to the teams to help keep them intact, however he was still unsure how much he was willing to allow so he could keep a healthy profit. Balestre, effectively a caretaker over the coming months, asked Mosley what his thoughts were on the current championship. To that, Mosley replied, “It’s not like we haven’t seen years of utter domination before, but this time, the inclusion of electronics is spiking costs across the field to the point where subsidizing the teams may be self-defeating. Are we on the precipice of operating budgets of one hundred million dollars being the cost to compete effectively? We’ll see a grid of eight teams by the end of the decade if this keeps up.”
Balestre grunted, and admitted, “This is like the turbo era on steroids, the difference between the haves and have nots is so wide you could drive a train through. What are you planning?”
“Eliminate all, or nearly all of the electronic aids, perhaps bring back refueling, and look into ways to cap spending subtly, as the big teams would balk at having to fight with six rivals rather than two or three every year for championships. I’m not against tweaking the point system either, ideally extending points to eighth or tenth, depending on what could work there. Bernie, could you see any of this working? How can we get more viewers out of this?” Mosley pivoted in his reply, hoping for an out he could use and hammer down as early as possible.
“Bringing back refueling would help, as long as fuel strategy was a big enough part of the draw that you could keep the interest of those who might just turn off after a season like this, though you know the teams, corners will be cut somewhere and fires would be unwanted attention. Adjusting the points would work, but you’d need a season where one man dominates so thoroughly that it’s locked up with two or three races to spare. I agree wholeheartedly on the matter of banning the aids, but we should ask around the paddock, especially those who’ve been around awhile. Get the big names on board, and see if we might be missing something. We’ve had a few years where everything’s started to spread out, and the transition might be rocky.” Ecclestone coughed, and then added, “If we can limit costs, we could expand, perhaps a twenty-race season in the next fifteen, twenty years would be feasible if we could pursue parity? For now, though, let’s try to make the sport so it’s not like a video game. I expect we’re talking ‘94, not next year, right? Do this too soon and you will kill off the smaller teams. Hell, I know Brabham is going under this year,” at that he paused, and was visibly saddened by the resignation, “we lost Coloni, and March may, may I add, make it to Adelaide. It’s time for adjustment, but let’s get some input from the teams and drivers. Mansell’s probably only going to be around a season or two, same with Alboreto and Patrese, so we should be talking to them no matter what, having less to lose. Senna too, and a couple of the newer drivers like Alesi and Schumacher wouldn’t hurt.”
“I’m in agreement with that. Jean-Marie, do you think it could work from a management persepective?” Mosley asked?
“I don’t see if you have a choice. I love this post, and will miss it, but I don’t envy your position right now. Pull the tail too hard, and you’ll get bitten. Bernie has a point, get input from the drivers, maybe the outgoing constructors as well. If we can keep a full grid – which won’t be easy with this recession, we need to make sure that grid can remain established, with room to maneuver if the economy dips again.” Balestre sighed, relieved this was less and less his mess, and soon to be none at all. “Yes, let’s do it that way.”
“Let’s.” Mosley said, and concluded the meeting.
Round Eight – French Grand Prix – 05 July 1992 – Magny-Cours
Returning to Europe, there was more of a surprise attempting to arrive at the track than there was through the qualifying sessions, as a truck blockade impeded teams from reaching the track with time to spare. Every team made it trackside, however the delays meant that there was less time to tweak setups, which led to a slightly jumbled qualifying order behind the Williams duo driving on Renault’s home turf. The stunned crowd in the stands on Saturday could not believe that Alesi managed to put his Ferrari on the second row, behind Mansell’s pole position. Benetton and McLaren split the following four positions, with the Lotuses, Capelli, and the Ligiers making a stronger showing at their home track.
Sunday brought a dry start with dark, ominous gray clouds overhead, and the drivers knew it wasn’t a matter of if, it was a matter of when the rain would start. Perhaps it was nerves about the weather, racing at home, or being one of the lucky ones that found a fast setup quickly, but Grouilliard stalled his Tyrrell on the grid. This time, the Mess of Monaco did not duplicate itself on its French neighbor, however it spread the field out before the rain began. The rain began gently for a couple of laps, and then rapidly picked up intensity, just at the worst possible time for Williams, as neither front-runner could see far into the spray. As they came to Grouillard, he could not see that there were two Williams behind him, not one, until too late. After making room for Mansell, he had already began to move back over before making contact with Senna, taking both drivers out for the duration, and forcing both to walk back to the paddock in a downpour.
That lap 15 collision wasn’t the only incident on the track that lap, nearly a dozen cars all went off or collided with one another. The race was red-flagged, and the remaining drivers awaited the end of the heaviest rain to go back onto the track. After an hour, racing resumed from the grid, with finishes to be scored on aggregate time. As Mansell was the only driver with a clear track from the outset, he distanced himself for the first several laps after racing resumed. Schumacher began to reel him in, but ran out of time at the end. Attrition and driver error shrinking the field further so there was only nine cars left running by the checkered flag. Mansell won from Schumacher, Hakkinen, Comas, Herbert, and Lehto.
Points after eight races:
Drivers’:
Mansell – 64
Senna - 46
Schumacher – 32
Berger - 13
Patrese - 12
Capelli – 7
Alboreto & Brundle – 6
Hakkinen – 8
Alesi – 3
Comas – 4
Herbert - 3
Wendlinger, Morbidelli, Groulliard, & Lehto – 1
Constructors'
Williams - 110
Benetton - 38
McLaren - 25
Lotus - 11
Ferrari - 10
Footwork - 6
Ligier - 4
Minardi, March, Tyrrell, & Dallara - 1
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On team orders, my inclination is a flat ban, with loss of all points for an event, or season, in case of violation; loss of shared revenue too, maybe? I don't picture FIA going for it, tho.
On sharing with smaller teams, I have no really good suggestions. I would suggest making the shares largest at the bottom of the points order, if the idea is level (or levelling) performance. I don't picture FIA going for this, either, much.
On keeping cost down, I really have no clue. AFAIK, nothing has worked well, short of an effectively spec racing formula. I do like mandated durability on engines & trannys, but IDK if that would occur to anyone in '94-5. I don't suppose bans on hospitality suites & such would be on. I wonder about a restriction on sponsorship money, or car company sponsorship, preferably both; I can't picture FIA having this on, ever.
I do wonder why allowing refuelling is a good thing. That seems to make pit crews more important than cars & drivers, & the fact of crews (& transporting them) only drives up cost. It also allows teams to push harder, ISTM.
So, what about no fuel or tire stops? Fewer tire changes, so less cost to purchase & transport; no pit crews; less-fancy fuel rigs; generally slower laps, to preserve fuel & tires, so less wear on cars.
Also, I'd love to see more than one tyre supplier.
On sharing with smaller teams, I have no really good suggestions. I would suggest making the shares largest at the bottom of the points order, if the idea is level (or levelling) performance. I don't picture FIA going for this, either, much.
On keeping cost down, I really have no clue.
AFAIK, nothing has worked well, short of an effectively spec racing formula. I do like mandated durability on engines & trannys, but IDK if that would occur to anyone in '94-5. I don't suppose bans on hospitality suites & such would be on. I wonder about a restriction on sponsorship money, or car company sponsorship, preferably both; I can't picture FIA having this on, ever.I do wonder why allowing refuelling is a good thing. That seems to make pit crews more important than cars & drivers, & the fact of crews (& transporting them) only drives up cost. It also allows teams to push harder, ISTM.
So, what about no fuel or tire stops? Fewer tire changes, so less cost to purchase & transport; no pit crews; less-fancy fuel rigs; generally slower laps, to preserve fuel & tires, so less wear on cars.
Also, I'd love to see more than one tyre supplier.
On team orders, my inclination is a flat ban, with loss of all points for an event, or season, in case of violation; loss of shared revenue too, maybe? I don't picture FIA going for it, tho.
On sharing with smaller teams, I have no really good suggestions. I would suggest making the shares largest at the bottom of the points order, if the idea is level (or levelling) performance. I don't picture FIA going for this, either, much.
On keeping cost down, I really have no clue.
I do wonder why allowing refuelling is a good thing. That seems to make pit crews more important than cars & drivers, & the fact of crews (& transporting them) only drives up cost. It also allows teams to push harder, ISTM.
So, what about no fuel or tire stops? Fewer tire changes, so less cost to purchase & transport; no pit crews; less-fancy fuel rigs; generally slower laps, to preserve fuel & tires, so less wear on cars.
Also, I'd love to see more than one tyre supplier.
Maybe I Should agree on this so Formula 1 Might Need to Cut Down the Fuel and Tire Stops for later seasons in all Formula 1 Grand Prix Races, So I Hope Will Look forward to it.
Just thought you should know you've changed history in a so rejectful way with making Andrea Moda having made it to the French Grand Prix great job
http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/andreamoda/index.html
Info on this untold hero of F1
http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/andreamoda/index.html
Info on this untold hero of F1
Archibald
Banned
Just thought you should know you've changed history in a so rejectful way with making Andrea Moda having made it to the French Grand Prix great job
http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/andreamoda/index.html
Info on this untold hero of F1
Man, this is crazy !
Just thought you should know you've changed history in a so rejectful way with making Andrea Moda having made it to the French Grand Prix great job
http://www.f1rejects.com/teams/andreamoda/index.html
Info on this untold hero of F1
I thought I mentioned them folding earlier in the season. I'll have to look over this when I haven't just got off a 12hr shift and having been up 21hrs.
BTW, the CART side of this TL has gone through a giantic revision, that's been slowing down the updates. Consider that, (which will come in the offseason,) either a major butterfly or a third POD. This will not become a parallel to "He Came from Indianapolis," as I've encountered some new reading and want to really shake things up.
Next update will be posted by tomorrow night. Work just got a little screwier, and my sleep is all messed up.
As far as I can see you didn't but you couldn't have the domination of Williams in the 92 season without the insanity of Andrea Moda to balance it out
As far as I can see you didn't but you couldn't have the domination of Williams in the 92 season without the insanity of Andrea Moda to balance it out
Andrea Moda wasn't insanity, it was an out and out farce of a team that never had any business on an F1 grid. Enzo Coloni, as little success as his team had, was a professional and his team acted like it. Andrea Moda was a shitstorm from the off, and the fact that Perry McCarthy never punched out Andrea Sassetti shows amazing patience, particularly after they let him go out on a track with a flexing steering arm in his car. Best thing that team can do is sink into history, never to be remembered.
Flexing steering arm in Eau Rouge no less. I read Perry's book Flat Out Flat Broke and he does talk about how bad things were and how close he came to assaulting Sassetti.
I don't think the FIA or teams or FOCA for that matter would approve of that, because of the possibility of sponsorship losses and team failures as a result. The best idea might be a penalty on grid spots at the next race - call out a team order to not allow drivers to pass at a race, both cars lost ten qualifying positions at the next race. That would get the point across, I think. I would also narrow this to team orders that have a detrimental effect on the race - if a team wants two drivers to work together to go through the field, that should be allowed by all means.
I think the better option might be to start with a base amount that all teams that run a full-season two-car program get, then additional moneys provided for points scored, and a secondary budget that provides money to teams which run single cars or part seasons or extra cars at races.
On keeping cost down, I really have no clue.
The problem with spending in F1 is that it'll suck up whatever someone is willing to pour into it, and the teams always find ways of getting around limits on testing. The best idea I could give for it is the mandated durability for engines and transmissions and a luxury tax, where the FIA estimates team budgets and forces those above the average of said budgets to pay those below said budgets, on the condition that it is used in F1 racing. Bans on hospitality would be foolish - they spend peanuts on that compared to what teams do on research, development and testing. Banning testing at F1 tracks would be a possibility, but the problem there is that there are lots of other places to test at, and as the FIA found out a decade ago, banning testing at certain times of the year just mean the teams go nuts with simulators and then go even more nuts making up for lost time when they can test cars.
I like having refueling, because it allows teams to play strategic games and toss the races around for a loop by running on light fuel loads and soft tires and as a result try to run away with the lead with the fast cars before they have to pit. Again, crew transporting isn't cheap but it isn't the killer portion of the budgets.
You won't get a tire capable of working with an F1 car that can last a full race and give F1-level grip, and if you do this you put all of the focus for finding grip on aerodynamics, which causes costs to explode. Better idea might be going the opposite route - limit aero developments but allow the tiremakers to go nuts, provided they sell tires to teams at an FIA-mandated cost which is reasonable. At that point, if they want to go nuts on tire development, that's their problem. This approach also allows the cars to rely more on grip made by the tires as opposed to downforce, which is good for overtaking in that you don't get the huge problem with aero washout that a chasing car suffers so often in F1.
Yeah, that would be good, too.