The Importance of Nitrogen

rowmaster

This is something I posted at Othertimelines.com a few weeks ago. An Interesting Topic and Im working on a ATL based on its POD

I have been scanning my Copy of The Guns of August again...
In it i read a small section which mentioned that the Germans had 2 Months worth of Ammunition and readied Gunpowder. After that they had a mere 3 months supply of the proper Nitrogen compounds to make more. The Germans were able to quickly develop a way of "Nitrogen Fixing" which was able to retrive the Nitrogen found in Soil and in the Air. What if they hadn't been able to develop it? Had they been unable to develop the process the German Military would have begun to run out of ammunition in January 1915. What would the treaty ending the war in 1915 have been like? This Nitrogen Fixing led to the development of Furtalizers. Had it not occured Food Production World wide would never have become so High. What other major changes will this have caused?
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
Damn, yes! The Haber Process! I can't believe I've never considered it.

*Belabours himself about the head with his fists*

Good work, rowmaster.
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
I have thought about this before...without the Haber Process, the only source of nitrates for fertiliser and explosives is Patagonia, which would screw over the Central Powers in a long war.

However, it seems very likely that someone else would discover the Process sooner or later, and certainly before any WW2-analogue.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
Wikipedia says that they invented their method in 1909. Let's say, Haber (or Carl Bosch, or both of them) is killed earlier, and nobody manages to invent a better method. Yes, then Germany is really screwed. All the Allies have to do is not being defeated in the first year (assuming that the Germans will be at least smart enough to double their stocks of salpetre).
 

Faeelin

Banned
Okay, a couple of things to consider:

1) What were Germany's other options? Building up a stockpile of nitrates seems like it'd be a good idea; and as everyone knows, the war couldn't last more than a couple of years if it did break out anyway.

2) If there's a limited amount of nitrates, then the guns will get it before fertilizer production. So Germany's population is malnourished earlier than in OTL. Hmm....
 

Alratan

I seem to remember that in OTL the Germans were really lucky to capture a big stock of nitrates in Amsterdam? early in the war which really helped them.
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
Faeelin said:
Okay, a couple of things to consider:

1) What were Germany's other options? Building up a stockpile of nitrates seems like it'd be a good idea; and as everyone knows, the war couldn't last more than a couple of years if it did break out anyway.

2) If there's a limited amount of nitrates, then the guns will get it before fertilizer production. So Germany's population is malnourished earlier than in OTL. Hmm....
Click to expand...

1) Not really, I fear. Germany's army is a short war army. The "It'll be over by Christmas disease wasn't confined to any one army. The French thought if they pinned the Germans the Russians would smash them quickly. They also failed to protect areas of strategic importance that contained significant manufacturing capabilities and resources. The Germans wanted to encircle and destroy the French. Everyone thought it'd be a short war.

2) Mm, so the Germans'd be compelled (all else being equal) to the table sooner. No Verdun in this TL, I wonder? Or would it still happen, but with Verdun Brusilov, and the Somme widely regarded as what broke the Germans' spirit? Not true, of course - the lack of ammo'd be what did it. But one can't tell the Entente soldiers their sacrifice was in vain.

So Russia'd stagger along, too, I expect. Interesting . . .
 

Faeelin

Banned
MrP said:
2) Mm, so the Germans'd be compelled (all else being equal) to the table sooner. No Verdun in this TL, I wonder? Or would it still happen, but with Verdun Brusilov, and the Somme widely regarded as what broke the Germans' spirit? Not true, of course - the lack of ammo'd be what did it. But one can't tell the Entente soldiers their sacrifice was in vain.
Click to expand...

The British would use this war as proof of the benefit of a blockade; perhaps there's a great attempt at autarky in Europe after the war?

Well, I'm not sure if you can make it much worse than OTL.
 

rowmaster

If the War ends in 1915 what would such a Peace Treaty be like? Would Germany get the 1919 Treatment or something Nicer? And if the War ends late Enough in 1915 the German People will be Starving. Would the German Revoulution occur here?
 
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