The History of the Malaya Campaign

Markus

Banned
Plus allied submarines (with working torpedoes) based out of Manila sinking anything Japanese?

The Bliss-Leavitt torpedoes that were found defective and thus replaced were the air launched type(Mark 13), the subs had the Mark 14 which was a totally different design. Given the resistance of the submarine brass in OTL to even consider the idea of the fish not working I´m not sure there will be quick action in TTL. On the other hand subic Bay is close enough to serve as a base for the short legged RN subs plus the Dutch sub force is largely intact.
 
Markus

Good to see more of this. Things are going well for the allies despite the CV losses and as Tyg says the omens are not good for the Japanese. Without even the bulk of their early victories OTL I could see the potential for some elements to start thinking about seeking peace. [Given allied anger this might be a futile task at the moment however].

Steve
 
Very interesting timeline so far. I haven't quite got all the way through it yet, but one thing did immediately spring to mind- you mentioned the Royal Thai Air Force getting Spitfires, and the RAF getting more Hurricanes. I really don't see this happening- if the Thai's get anything, it will be Hurricanes or more likely Buffaloes as the RAF upgrades towards Spitfires. The thinking here would be "look how well they have done with outmoded aircraft, lets give them some proper tools to work with and let them really show the Japs what for!" I can imagine the uproar if an Ally (and a minor one at that) was given better equipment than our own forces, given the amount of positive coverage that the force was getting.
 

Hyperion

Banned
There's just one major problem to the latest update.

The 2nd Armored and the 1st Marine divisions will not be at full combat strength for some months yet.

Also, second armored was slated for use in Europe anyway. Better to send an infantry division such as the 25th, 24th, or the Americal, or one of the two national guard divisions sent to Australia early 1942 OTL. Sending tanks and Patton to fight looks pretty, but is sort of a masturbation wank.

I've liked everything else, but this last part ruined it for me.

What else is wrong.

Oh, yes, canceling the Independence class light fleet carriers. That is the stupidest idea that I have ever heard of. Fleet carriers can't be everywhere, and there are a lot of tasks to be carried out whereby an Essex class would be overkill. Did you know that a number of the light carriers, including a number of Independence class ships actually served in the Atlantic. Apparently not. Good research there.

While things may be going better for the allies, they aren't going to consentrate on Japan first. That would be the dumbest and the most ignorant thing to do. Germany takes presedence. Oh, Yay, you've saved Singapore an India. I'm afraid that Buckingham Palace, the Tower of London, Big Ben, and the Royal Family aren't going to be able to celebrate. Because while you where half a world away, the Germans bombed Britain back to the stoneage.
 
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Markus

Banned
but one thing did immediately spring to mind- you mentioned the Royal Thai Air Force getting Spitfires, and the RAF getting more Hurricanes. I really don't see this happening- if the Thai's get anything, it will be Hurricanes or more likely Buffaloes as the RAF upgrades towards Spitfires.

That is one more Malayan scheme to squeeze modern warplanes out of the UK. Victory or not SEA still has a low priority. The Thais however had captured all these Japanese warplanes the Allies would love to have. This gives the Thais leverage, Bettys, Nells and Oscars will be offered in exchange for Spitfires, Beaufighters and A-20.

Most of said planes will however not end up in the hands of the RTAF for logistical reasons. What do Thais pilots and more important mechanics know about a Spitfire? Converting to the Spitfire would be a lengthy process because their fighter force is made up of Hawk II and III biplanes and a dozen fixed undercarriage H-75 aka. P-36 aka. Mohawk. So the Thais shake the modern planes loose and exchange them for Mohawks.





The 2nd Armored and the 1st Marine divisions will not be at full combat strength for some months yet. Also, second armored was slated for use in Europe anyway.

Don´t know about the 2nd AD, but the 1st Marines are short one regiment indeed at the end of the Philippine Campaign. Still, the Japanese are in a far worse situation and unless I’m mistaken the OTL 1st Marines landed on Guadalcanal short one regiment, didn´t they? Regarding the 2nd AD, plans can change.



What else is wrong.

Oh, yes, canceling the Independence class light fleet carriers. That is the stupidest idea that I have ever heard of. Fleet carriers can't be everywhere, and there are a lot of tasks to be carried out whereby an Essex class would be overkill. Did you know that a number of the light carriers, including a number of Independence class ships actually served in the Atlantic. Apparently not. Good research there.
First of all the US CVL “were vital components of the great offensive that tore through the central and western Pacific from November 1943 through August 1945.” In TTL there will be no such offensive … at all!. Second, the Japanese have already lost 2/3 of their CV in June, by the end of July they are down to two CVL and one to two CVE. So what do the Allies need a ton of carriers for?
Furthermore I found no information on wikipedia of any Independence class carrier ever serving in the Atlantic. Maybe you confuse them with the CVE? And even if the CVL would help down the line, nobody does everything right and IMO the Allies had extraordinary success so far. If no CVL cause problems down the line its all the more realistic.

While things may be going better for the allies, they aren't going to consentrate on Japan first. That would be the dumbest and the most ignorant thing to do. Germany takes presedence.
I recommend actually reading Part IV: “With the Japanese offensive stopped at the starting line, the US Army concludes some Lend Lease and some time and the local forces in SEA will be able to contribute most manpower needed to defeat Japan. The Army would have to provide little more than instructors and maybe one or two additional divisions.” ...The quick arrival of the 2nd Cavalry seems strange considering the Army’s desire to limit its involvement but a closer look at its sub-units revel the reasons. The division is made up of the 9th and 10th Cavalry Regiments and the 24th Infantry Regiment. Traditional Buffalo Soldiers units meaning Blacks. And Blacks are about as popular with the US military as the Brewster Buffalo and P-39 are with the Brigadier General Bear.

Meaning China is considerd a convenient dumping ground for "n....s and P-39" so the good stuff can be send to the real war.

Oh, Yay, you've saved Singapore an India. I'm afraid that Buckingham Palace, the Tower of London, Big Ben, and the Royal Family aren't going to be able to celebrate. Because while you where half a world away, the Germans bombed Britain back to the stoneage.
The UK bombed back to stone age in 1942. *user shakes his head*
 

Markus

Banned
General Calvin Bear?:rolleyes:

Subtle.:D

The fact that he like you favours the P-38 and F4U, while dislikes the F2A and P-39 is like allmost all fictional names absolutely ... deliberate! :D
Besides who better to put in charge of R&D?

By the way, did you spot any factual errors or logical discrepancies ect? Especially timeframewise I was out on a limb. Fortunately wiki revealed that ACW cavalry made easily 35 miles per day.
 
By the way, did you spot any factual errors or logical discrepancies ect? Especially timeframewise I was out on a limb. Fortunately wiki revealed that ACW cavalry made easily 35 miles per day.

Markus

Only in that "Lieutenant-Commander W.F. Blackadder" is competent and a hero!:eek::D

Seriously I don't know enough about the equipment being used during the period to say that clearly on the rate of change of it and development of modifications.

Steve
 
Markus

Only in that "Lieutenant-Commander W.F. Blackadder" is competent and a hero!:eek::D


Steve

It's a progression. In the original Black Adder he was a dolt -- Baldrick was smarter! But over the generations, as the Blackadders declined in social level they grew brighter.

However, for all we know, LtCdr Blackadder quivers in his skivvies when facing the enemy, even when executing one of his cunning plans. Meanwhile, his underling, Ordinary Seaman Baldrick is always on defaulters for being dirty, and likes turnips.
 

Faeelin

Banned
History of the Malaya Campaign – Part IV

1942: No rest for the wicked!

June 15th: The Allied counteroffensive begins.

June 18th: The Japanese defences are shattered. The 2nd Armoured breaks out of Bataan and heads north.

Hrmm. This seems to imply a Pacific First Strategy, no?

The Allies do have an actual shipping shortage that results in operations being delayed, downsized or cancelled.

I don't understand; will the Allies require more logistical support than OTL Pacific War?

Jolly good so far. Although what happens when people realize just how awful the KMT are, well...
 
They have RAF-MD, they don't need the KMT.
ja.gif



Seriously though, I think that the KMT might recieve more aid, and perhaps now that the Allies are in the country, some of it will actually be used against the Japanese.
 
Seriously though, I think that the KMT might recieve more aid, and perhaps now that the Allies are in the country, some of it will actually be used against the Japanese.

I think there will definitely be a lot more stuff going to the KMT, simply because it will be so much easier. OTL flying over the hump was horrendously inefficient. Here we still have the use of the Burma Road not to mention the fact its a lot more secure simply getting to the region. Sounds like we will very soon have a route through Hanoi not to mention the possibility of direct tactical support by allied air if not ground forces. Even a few ground units, with their firepower, would make a big difference I suspect.

Steve
 

Hyperion

Banned
Do some research please. It makes me want to laugh.

The US built or laid down around 200 carriers of all types in the war, from the big Essex, to small converted liners.

If your going to cancel some carriers, why don't you simply not order some of the later Essex class and the conversions used later on, as opposed to scrubbing 9 ships, a number of which, while not ready for service yet, are considerably closer to activation than other ships.

This timeline was truely wonderful until this last update. Now its a piece of sh*t.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Another thing. From what I've read, the 1st Marine division would actually be short part of a second units as well. At least half a dozen or so small supporting companies and platoons would also be unavailable.

As far as US logistics. So what if the British are better off. Are they going to send 50 merchantmen to San Diego to pick up the entire division, and equipment, then sail back to the Philippines.

Basically, the entire last post is implauseable.
 

Markus

Banned
Any chance of the KNIL forming an Expeditionary Brigade now the DEI are practically safe?

Hmm, frankly I did not plan to do much with them in the future. We´ll see.


Markus

Only in that "Lieutenant-Commander W.F. Blackadder" is competent and a hero!:eek::D

Steve

And here we got a case of life being stranger than fiction for the actual W.F. Blackadder was an RAF Hurricane pilot: Flg. Off. W.F. Blackadder, commander of A flight 607 Sqn. in 1940. Shot down some Germans too.


Hrmm. This seems to imply a Pacific First Strategy, no?

No, Patton was send there to rescue MacArthur´s men. Pushing the Japanese off the PI altogether is logical.



I don't understand; will the Allies require more logistical support than OTL Pacific War?

Jolly good so far. Although what happens when people realize just how awful the KMT are, well...
In OTL the Anzio landings "went south" because the allies could not land enough troops before the German reserves arrived. Overall they had less merchant ship than they needed.
ITTL the logistics are simpler: load some merchant ship in San Francisco, sail with an ASW escort south around Australia, unload at Haiphong on the railroad. No combat loading of a division´s worth of supplies to be delivered right into a warzone hundreds or thousands of miles from the next base. No need to bring air support with you in the form of many CVE on top of many CV/CVL, because Taiwan and much of the chinese coast are within range of land based planes. Also need a lot less landing craft of all sorts in the Pacific, because the chinese coast is so long, you can always find large undefended stretches.


They have RAF-MD, they don't need the KMT.
ja.gif

Unlike the KMT RAF-MD are competent crooks. They only steal from friends to hurt the enemy. And hurt the enemy they do. ;)


And last but not least, have you might want to take a look at this.
 
Unlike the KMT RAF-MD are competent crooks. They only steal from friends to hurt the enemy. And hurt the enemy they do. ;)


And last but not least, have you might want to take a look at this.


Done. Mind if I borrow our dear AM Sir Miles Browning for my own work? I plan to do a few updates on Singapore in the near future in my own work.
 

Markus

Banned
The History of the Asian Theatre of Operations in WW2 (aka. History of the Malaya Campaign – Part V)


1943 the first: Plans, Politics and other Perils



Late November 1942 in Hanoi, FIC:
The allies take stock. Present are:

General Sir Arthur Percival, CINCSEAPAC (Commander in Chief, South East Asia and Pacific)

Air Chief Marshal Sir Robert Brooke-Popham (Allied Air Officer Commanding South East Asia)
Major-General Lewis H. Brereton (Deputy Allied AOC SEAPAC)
Air Marshal Miles Browning, 1st Baron Browning (AOC China, CIC CAF)
Major-General George Kenney 10th Air Force
Major-General Claire Lee Chennault 14th Air Force

Lieutenant General Gordon Bennet, 14th Army (UK)
Lieutenant General George Patton 6th Army (US, 4 star general in the NRA)

Luitenant-Admiraal Conrad Helfrich (Dutch, CO of ABCDFT Naval Forces)


Plus liaisons with the British Pacific Fleet (Admiral Sir Thomas Phillips) and the U.S. Pacific Fleet (Admiral Chester Nimitz)


Now that the railheads in Kunming and Nanning are secure its time to discuss the next steps. The Kuomintang’s forces are naturally centre stage:

First Admiral Helfrich reports. His multi national force is a patchwork of new, obsolescent and obsolete warships that has retaken the entire DIE and his submarines forces have largely isolated the garrison of Rabaul. He now has the task to integrate and expand the Chinese naval forces. Since these forces are a number of river gun boats Adm. Helfrich can’t promise anything Chinese crewed above the size a PT boat or Patrol Craft anytime soon.

MG Chennault has better news. He is well acquainted with the Chinese Air Force and while the CAF is short of modern warplanes is ground personnel is skilled and thus the allied can deploy air units to China fairly easily. However Chinese flying personnel is short in supply. Before Dec.7th 1941 most of the CAF´s air units had been mostly destroyed by the Japanese.

LG Bennet and Patton have really bad news. While the KMT has over 300 divisions, most are just 5,000–6,000 men strong; an average Army has 10,000–15,000 troops, the equivalent of a Japanese division. And the shortage of heavy weapons means that three to four Chinese armies had the firepower of only one Japanese division. The relative fighting strength of a Chinese division is even weaker when relative capacity in aspects of warfare, such as intelligence, logistics, communications, and medical services, are taken into account. And to complete the mess there is the command structure: The so called Central Army is commanded by officers loyal to Chiang Kai-shek and the Provincial Army under de facto control of local warlords. Since re-training and –equipping a force of this size would take till 1950 at best the generals recommend a high-low approach.

The average(=regular) division will be given some automatic and heavy weapons, a quick “how to use them” lesson and than numbers and support by allied air and ground units will enable them to do their job which is pinning down the Japanese and punching holes in their frontline if required.

App. forty Chinese divisions have been equipped with European-manufactured weapons and trained by foreign, particularly German and Soviet, advisers. Particularly the divisions reorganised and trained by the Germans are of interest for future use as the spearhead. 8 completed the process in 1937, but a third were lost since then. Another 12 divisions equipped with Chinese arms and reorganized by German advisors had some training by the time the time the Sino German cooperation ended.
General Patton intends to turn the surviving five divisions into armoured and motorized units with a US TO&E. The 12 partially trained divisions will convert into something like a US infantry division minus organic transport.

To ensure a unified doctrine of the “mobile force” all training needs to be done by one nation’s instructors. Given that most L&L is coming from the US, US doctrine is the logical choice. And here more problems start. Washington is not willing to provide more instructors, citing that Patton already has more than units doing training in the USA. Plus the request for a third US Army division has been turned down. Everything is going to the UK or the Med in the foreseeable future. The only combat units available are ASB (=airfield security battalions), of course “black” ASB. Since airfield security comes with the territory such units are not needed for securing airfields and given the exceptional performance of the 2nd Cavalry Patton is confident the ASB –black or not- can teach Chinese soldiers more than one lesson.


And now to the concrete military operations:


  • Invasion of Hainan: It’s just 160 miles off Haiphong and anything that could become a Japanese Malta can’t be tolerated.
  • Invasion of Rabaul: Currently supply convoys from the US go south around Australia making it a 12,000 nautical (!!) mile trip. If they could proceed through the Coral Sea and Torres Strait between Australia and New Guinea 2,000 miles or more than one week sailing time could be saved.
  • The Japanese railhead Liuchow 130 miles away from the allied railhead Nanning needs to be taken and both need to be connected by rail.
  • Intensify air raids on Taiwan and continue preparations for an eventual invasion.




1 to 3 can be conducted simultaneously. Hainan is so close to allied held territory that a seaborne landing does not require carrier support and so large that not all landing sites can be defended. ABCDFT naval and Empire ground forces can conduct that operation on their own.
Rabaul is a tougher nut to crack as the Japanese have send significant ground forces there before the naval sort-of blockade and can fly in planes via their bases in the Bonins, Marians and Marshalls. The next semi-decent allied base is Port Moresby and that’s 500 miles away. So that job requires the services of the Marines and both Pacific fleets as Port Moresby is too far away for anything except a P-51 or a P-38. But the supply of the former has dried up after barely 300 were delivered and the latter are coming forth slowly.



Speaking of which we shall take a look at the Flying Machines those magnificent Men in the US aviation industry have come up with.

P-39N: BG Bear is really warning up to this plane after he took a test flight. The P-39D was quite a fast climber as long as the supercharger was working and reached 10,000 feet in 4 minutes. As fast as the latest Lighting (P-38G). Now he passes 10,000 feet after just over three minutes and 20,000 after seven and reaches 25,000 feet in 12 minutes. After touch down he remakes in a solemn vice: “It was as though angels were pulling!”

P-40M: The “ugly duckling”. It has the same engine and SC as the P-51B, but “just” 170 gallons of internal fuel and no fancy laminar flow wings even in the thin air at 25,000 feet the top speed is well below 400mph. But it does not matter because this version of the P-40 never went to the front. With all Allison engines first going to P-51 and than to P-39, Curtiss focuses on Merlin powered P-40 fighters be default and starts production of the P-40L in January. The more powerful Merlin engine makes the “L” reach 390mph@25ft, internal fuel has been increased to 190 gallons.

P-51B: As indicated by the P-51A the V-1710-85 engine and the Merlin´s 2-stage, 2-speed supercharger are an excellent match. A top speed of 415mph is maintained even above 25,000 feet. Sadly for South East Asia BG Bear has closely watched RAF-MD´s plane pimping operations and noticed 50 gallon P-40 fuselage tanks were installed into P-51 airframes bringing the internal fuel capacity to 230 gallons. Presented with a 100% reliable, long range, high speed, high altitude fighter the USAAF immediately impounds all P-51 airframes within the USA, so the Chinese orders go unfulfilled.

In the early months of 1943 P-39N arrives in SEA, its prime mission is to replace the Spitfires as base defence interceptors. The various P-40 versions (E,K,L) perform the all day escort and attack work and the small supply of P-51 and P-38 go to the belly of the beasts.



And after the perils of planning now to the political perils:

Chiang Kai-shek and his advisers understand they have a golden opportunity once China became the No.1 battle ground in the war on Japan. They even realize this come at a price, but the details are irritating to say the least. Its not that the NRA now needs to fight. With heavy and automatic weapons arriving by the shipload from Haiphong the NRA will soon have the power to defeat the Japanese and keep the communists under control. It is the degree to which the allies interfere in what used to be domestic issues.
One idea the Allies have is supply drops for guerrillas, including to the communists since they are fighting the Japanese too. Plus Nguyễn Ái Quốc is a communist too and a very trustworthy ally, not to mention the Russian who tie down over one hundred German divisions. So much political naiveté makes Chiang want to pull his hair out. Nguyễn Ái Quốc off all people. Anybody knows the guy would sign on to any ideology as long as it gets the French out of Indo-China. Chiang would like to kill supply drops altogether as he has no control over the often the strictly local insurgents behind the Japanese lines, but has a hard time even directing the drops away from commie strongholds.

Early attempts to exert political influence over his air and ground commanders (Browning and Patton) have not just failed, but backfired. In recognition of his recent victory in FIC Chiang gave Patton a cash bonus of such proportions that even a George S. Patton was put off balance. Once he regained it, he donated the money to charities and relief organisations and requested more personnel form the Judge Advocate General's Corps to combat corruption, because to say that the KMT is corrupt is like saying the desert is not humid, or the artic cool. And now Patton got an idea about the reasons for these deficiencies.

Lord Miles also had his Close Encounters with corruption times three. Like Patton he flew to the Chinese wartime capital of Chungking. He was driven a long way from the airport to the palatial headquarters of RAF China and another long way to the Chinese air ministry but unlike Patton he was not surprised by the pay of a Chinese Air force general. After all he spend some years in China selling planes to the Chinese, so KMT corruption is something he knows and had to accept, had to. But not any more. After the return to the “Place” he announces to pack up everything any get moving. The instructors will move into Nissen huts near the airfields and the paper pushers into Chungking. Plenty of bombed out building there that can provide adequate lodging once repaired. After all, if the AOC resides in a Nissen hut –albeit a larger one with good heat- and soundproofing- the staff does not need to live in the Emperor’s Place. Said palace will be turned into a hospital and orphanage for Lord Miles just knows both will be needed.

And we shall close this part by addressing one of the most sati… errrr… aspects of service in SEA most appreciated by allied servicemen. The very friendly civilian population. It’s not just the fact that Filipinos, Vietnamese and Chinese hate the guts of the Japanese and thus the cooperation of the civilians in military matters is guaranteed, it’s more the close interpersonal relationships with certain parts of the local population that the young men from all over the world really, really like.


Comments are always sati ... err ... appreciated. ;)
 
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