The Guns of the Tawantinsuya

G.Bone said:
It's good and I don't see any major changes in it. Will there be a map forthcoming?

Check farther down in the thread...I already posted one for the first segment, and will post another for the upcoming segment as well.
 
Historico said:
But You did say that the Tawantinsuya have and are using the English Galleon Designs so would be able to sail to North America through Panama.

Well, they wouldn't be able to sail through Panama...there is no Panama Canal in the 1500s or 1600s! But yes, they could sail to North America aboard their galleons, either from Buenos Aires or by going around Cape Horn. The problem with contact between the Tawantinsuya and the Iroquois is mainly on the side of the Iroquois.

First of all, we have to ask ourselves why the Tawantinsuya would WANT to visit the Iroquois. The Iroquois would not have been seen as a major power by the Tawantinsuya. The Tawantinsuya don't have an idea of the importance of the Iroquois like we do, looking back through the lens of history. In 1600, there were only about 20,000 Iroquois (combined total for all five tribes). By 1650, after the European epidemics hit them, they were reduced by half. The Tawantinsuya are going to view them as a very minor people.

Second, there is the distance factor. Unlike the English, who can offer immediate benefits from an alliance and trade, the Iroquois have no way to trade directly with the Tawantinsuya, for they are not a seafaring people. And they have very little of great value to trade. Why would the Tawantinsuya want to travel several thousand miles to seek out such a "worthless" trade contact/ally?

Historico said:
They Arent foreginers...

They would have been to the Tawantinsuya...


Historico said:
but I was just trying to give North America and Native Superpower...Like that of the South.

I understand. It is just unfortunate that none of the peoples of North America were in a position to become a native superpower.
 

Darkest

Banned
Keep doing what you're doing, Robert. Amazonian woman-dominant tribe? Outrageous, would require another POD. Mythical city? Would require yet another POD. North American superpower? Would require, once again, another POD.

Keep the timeline going from one general Point of Divergence. It seems much more real when you only use one and don't use more. Then it doesn't seem as realistic. So, like I said, keep it going.
 
Darkest90 said:
Keep doing what you're doing, Robert. Amazonian woman-dominant tribe? Outrageous, would require another POD. Mythical city? Would require yet another POD. North American superpower? Would require, once again, another POD.

Keep the timeline going from one general Point of Divergence. It seems much more real when you only use one and don't use more. Then it doesn't seem as realistic. So, like I said, keep it going.

I concur 100% with this.

Tom
 
robertp6165 said:
Well, they wouldn't be able to sail through Panama...there is no Panama Canal in the 1500s or 1600s! But yes, they could sail to North America aboard their galleons, either from Buenos Aires or by going around Cape Horn. The problem with contact between the Tawantinsuya and the Iroquois is mainly on the side of the Iroquois.

First of all, we have to ask ourselves why the Tawantinsuya would WANT to visit the Iroquois. The Iroquois would not have been seen as a major power by the Tawantinsuya. The Tawantinsuya don't have an idea of the importance of the Iroquois like we do, looking back through the lens of history. In 1600, there were only about 20,000 Iroquois (combined total for all five tribes). By 1650, after the European epidemics hit them, they were reduced by half. The Tawantinsuya are going to view them as a very minor people.

Second, there is the distance factor. Unlike the English, who can offer immediate benefits from an alliance and trade, the Iroquois have no way to trade directly with the Tawantinsuya, for they are not a seafaring people. And they have very little of great value to trade. Why would the Tawantinsuya want to travel several thousand miles to seek out such a "worthless" trade contact/ally?

What about the Maya?...The City States of The Itza Maya, Kowoj and Yalain groups of Central Peten survived the "Classic Period Collapse" in small numbers and by A.D. 1250 reconstituted themselves to form competing polities. The Itza kingdom had its capital at Noj Peten, an archaeological site thought to underlay modern day Flores, Guatemala. It ruled over a polity extending across the Peten Lakes region, encompassing the community of Eckixil on Lake Quexil. These sites and this region were inhabited continuously by independent Maya until after the final Spanish Conquest of A.D. 1697.

Post-Classic Maya states also continued to thrive in the southern highlands. One of the Maya kingdoms in this area, the Quiché, is responsible for the best-known Mayan work of historiography and mythology, the Popol Vuh.

The Spanish started their conquest of the Maya lands in the 1520s. Some Maya states offered long fierce resistance; the last Maya state, the Itza kingdom, was not subdued by Spanish authorities until 1697.

So couldn't Tawantinsuya Filibusters bring in the support of the Inca to overthrow the Spanish and establish an Neo-Mayan Kingdom in the Yucatan. Also Could't Tawantinsuya establish Colonies in Australia?
 
ADDITIONS TO EARLIER SEGMENTS OF THE TIMELINE

A.D. 1592--Tupac Yupanqui, son of Tupac Amaru Inca, is sent to serve as Ambassador to
England, a position he in which he will serve until the death of his father in 1616. While
in England, he partakes of English culture, including education at Oxford University and
the University of Cambridge, where he meets, befriends, and is deeply influenced by
Puritan leaders such as Thomas Cartwright and Walter Travers.

PART TWO--1600-1700 AD

c. A.D. 1600 onward--The new English and Tawantinsuya East India Company will compete with the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, and native forces for control of the riches of the Spice Islands in the East Indies.

c. A.D. 1600--Escaped black slaves who have fled the sugar plantations in Pernambuco
province, Brazil, found the maroon community, or quilombo, of Palmares in the Serra da
Barriga hills. The population grows, eventually reaching thirty thousand. Also at about
this time, the first Dutch merchants arrive in the Tawantinsuyu Empire. Like the English,
the Protestant Dutch will generally be on good terms with the Tawantinsuya, although
they will not enter into a formal alliance with them.

A.D. 1600 onward--Jesuit missionaries begin exploring the Amazon River region. Also
at this about this time, English Protestant missionaries begin preaching among the
Tawantinsuya. The Tawantinsuya, remembering the role played by Spanish Catholic
priests in the abortive Spanish conquest of the Tawantinsuyu Empire (a Spanish Priest
had played a leading role in the attempted ambush of Atahualpa Inca in 1532), have been
hostile to Christianity up to this point, and have arrested and executed any Christian
priests they have found within their borders. But contact with the English has lead them
to reconsider this viewpoint. They now understand that there are different varieties of
Christianity, and the English have subtly (or not so subtly) encouraged the Tawantinsuya
to consider ROMAN CATHOLICS as enemies, as opposed to Christians in general. In
1600, Tupac Amaru Inca, urged by his son, Tupac Yupanqui (who has, for the past
several years, been serving as Ambassador to England) agrees to allow Protestant
Christian missionaries from England into his realm, and they soon begin to preach among
the people, making many converts. Most of these missionaries will be Puritans, who will
tend to reinforce the anti-Catholic prejudices of the Tawantinsuya even more than would
normally have been the case.

A.D. 1601--An expedition of the English and Tawantinsuya East India Company,
operating from Tawantinsuya ports on the Pacific coast, sets up a fort at Banda in the East
Indies.

A.D. 1602--Sir James Lancaster leads an English and Tawantinsuya East India Company
expedition...including several Tawantinsuya trading ships...to the East Indies, reaches
Aceh, and builds a trading post at Banten. He sails from a base on the Tawantinsuya
Pacific Coast, and returns via the same route.

A.D. 1603--Samuel de Champlain of France begins exploration of the Gulf of St.
Lawrence and St. Lawrence River. Also in this year, Queen Elizabeth of England dies.
King James VI of Scotland, son of Mary, Queen of Scots, becomes King of England,
ruling as King James I and founding the Stuart Dynasty. James, a popular and successful
monarch in Scotland, will be a total failure in England. He will be unable to deal with a
hostile Parliament, and the refusal on the part of the House of Commons to impose
sufficiently high taxes will cripple the royal finances. His belief in absolutism and the
“divine right of kings,” his mismanagement of the kingdom's funds and his cultivation of
unpopular favorites will establish the foundation for the English Civil War, which will
lead to the overthrow and execution of his son and successor, Charles I, a few decades
later.

A.D. 1604--The Treaty of London ends the war between Spain, England, and the
Tawantinsuyu Empire. Spain officially cedes Argentina to Tawantinsuyu. The French
found their first settlements in the region which will become known as the Guianas, on
the coast of South America to the north of Brazil. Also in this year, an English and
Tawantinsuya East India Company expedition under Sir Henry Middleton visits Ternate,
Tidore, Ambon, and Banda in the East Indies. It returns to England sailing across the
Pacific and around Cape Horn, with stops at Tawantinsuya ports.

A.D. 1606 onward--Increasing Tension between Catholic and Protestant in Europe. In
1606, tensions between Protestants and Catholics in Germany lead to violence at the town
of Donauworth. This prompts Duke Maximilian of Bavaria to intervene on behalf of the
Catholics. After the violence ceases, the Calvinists in Germany (who are quite a minority)
feel the most threatened, so they band together in the League of Evangelical Union,
created in 1608 under the leadership of Frederick IV, the elector of Palatinate. This
provokes Catholics to band together in the Catholic League (created in 1609) under the
leadership of Duke Maximilian. Europe, which has seen relative peace between Catholic
and Protestant since the Peace of Ausburg in 1555, is now firmly on the road to war.

A.D. 1607--Jamestown, Virginia established—first permanent English colony in the New
World.

A.D. 1608--Permanent French colony founded in Quebec by Samuel de Champlain.

A.D. 1609--Galileo Galilei discovers moons of Jupiter. Henry Hudson explores the
Hudson River. The Dutch establish their first trading posts in India.

A.D. 1610--Henry Hudson discovers Hudson's Bay, Canada.

A.D. 1611--The King James Bible is published in England. The English and their
Tawantinsuya allies begin setting up many posts in the Indies, including at Makassar,
Jepara, Aceh and Jambi.

A.D. 1612--The English and Tawantinsuya East India Company establishes their first
trading colonies in India.

A.D. 1615--The Dutch establish the first of many settlements in the region which will
become known as the Guianas. It is located on the lower Essequibo River. The colonists
will remain on friendly terms with the natives of the area and will raise sugar and cacao.

A.D. 1616--Death of Tupac Amaru Inca. He is succeeded by his son, who reigns as
Tupac Yupanqui Inca II.

A.D. 1617--The ultra-Catholic Archduke Ferdinand of the House of Habsburg becomes
King of Bohemia. Ferdinand soon begins to repress the large Protestant segment of his
population, leading to a revolt.

A.D. 1618--King Ferdinand of Bohemia is deposed, and by the Protestant Frederick V,
Elector Palatine. Frederick is the son-in-law of King James I of England. Ferdinand
calls for support from the Catholic League, and full scale war soon begins. Thus begins
the Thirty Years War, which will eventually involve nearly all the major European
powers.

A.D. 1618-1629--War between the English and Tawantinsuya East India Company and
the Dutch East India Company in the East Indies. Although the English do somewhat
better due to Tawantinsuya support, in the end the Dutch win as in OTL, and begin the
process of expelling the English from the East Indies. By 1628, the English and
Tawantinsuya will have abandoned their claims in the East Indies, and the English and
Tawantinsuya East India Company will be focusing it’s efforts on trade in India. Having
ejected the English (and the Portuguese), the Dutch East India Company begins to switch
its focus from merely trading to actual conquest and colonization of the area, which will
remain in Dutch control for the next two centuries.

A.D. 1619--First black slaves arrive in Virginia aboard a Dutch trading vessel. Also in
this year, King Christian IV of Denmark missions Jens Eriksen Munk to find a maritime
road leading to the Orient. This explorer discovers the Hudson Straits and navigates as far
as the Churchill River in northern Canada, appropriating the territory to his King. The
Danes do not take advantage of the rights they could have enjoyed from Munk's
discoveries, however. Also in this year, Ferdinand II (whose election as King of Bohemia
had sparked the Thirty Years War) becomes Holy Roman Emperor.

A.D. 1620--Francis Bacon prepares the foundations for rational scientific
experimentation. Also in this year, the Pilgrims land at Plymouth Rock, Cape Cod,
Massachusetts. They found the first English settlement outside of Virginia, the Plymouth
Colony. Battle of White Mountain, in which the Catholic forces of Holy Roman Emperor
Ferdinand II defeat the Protestant forces of King Frederick of Bohemia (Elector Frederick
V of the Palatinate). In the aftermath of the battle, Frederick flees to Holland.
Maximilian I, Duke of Bavaria (leader of the Catholic League) confiscates Frederick’s
Palatine lands.

A.D. 1621--Tupac Yupanqui Inca II, who had been, while an ambassador in England,
deeply influenced by his contacts with Puritan leaders such as Thomas Cartwright and
Walter Travers, officially converts to Christianity. Millions of his subjects will, over the
next few years, follow the example of their Inca and convert as well. Within 50 years, the
Tawantinsuyu Empire will be a virtually completely Christian nation. Also in this year,
King Philip III of Spain dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as King Philip IV.
Like his father, Philip IV will mostly devote his time to the pursuit of pleasure, and Spain
will be governed, very poorly, by various court favorites. Spanish power, already in
decline, will plummet during his reign. Also in this year, the English and Tawantinsuya
East India Company founds a trading post at Ambon, in the East Indies.

A.D. 1624--A Dutch fleet seizes Bahia, Brazil from the Spanish and Portuguese.

A.D. 1625--King James I of England dies. His son, Charles I, is like his father, a
believer in the “divine right of kings,” and although he is pious and holds little personal
ambition, Charles will demand outright loyalty in return for "just rule". His personality is
such that he considers any questioning of his orders insulting, at best, treason at worst. It
is this latter trait and a series of events that will test it, seemingly minor on their own, that
will lead to a serious break between Charles and his Parliament, eventually leading to
war. Another factor which bodes ill for his reign is his choice of bride. Later that year,
Charles marries Princess Henrietta Maria of France, a Roman Catholic. This creates great
suspicion within England that Charles is a “closet papist” who is going to emancipate the
Catholics within the kingdom. It also will serve to chill relations with the Tawantinsuya,
who are deeply anti-Catholic, and strongly influenced by the Puritan ministers who are
preaching in the Tawantinsuyu Empire. The suspicions of both the English people and
the Tawantinsuya will seem to be confirmed as rumors of Henrietta Maria’s secret
negotiations with the pope, with foreign powers, and with English army officers surface
in the upcoming years. Also in this year, a force of Spaniards, Portuguese and native
allies retake Bahia, Brazil from the Dutch.

c. A.D. 1625--At this time, the French begin to establish trading settlements in the
Caribbean and begin to export sugar and tobacco.

A.D. 1625-1626--King Charles I of England decides to intervene in the fighting in Europe
in support of his brother-in-law, Elector Frederick V of the Palatinate. Frederick had
been expelled from his lands by Catholic forces of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand
II, and Charles hopes that by waging war against King Philip IV of Spain, he will be able
to force Philip to intercede with Emperor Ferdinand on Frederick’s behalf. He appoints
one of his favorites, the Duke of Buckingham, to command the army. Unfortunately, this
brings Charles into conflict with Parliament, where Buckingham is generally loathed. In
exchange for agreeing to authorize taxation to support the war, Parliament reserves unto
itself the right to dismiss Buckingham if his conduct proves unsatisfactory. Charles,
needing the taxes Parliament is offering to authorize, consents to this, apparently not
believing that Parliament would actually act without his approval. When Buckingham’s
incompetence leads to disaster in France, Parliament immediately recalls him without
consulting Charles. Charles, aghast at this “insolence” on the part of Parliament,
dissolves Parliament.

A.D. 1627--The English colonize Barbados, the first of their Caribbean colonies. Like
the French, they will export sugar and tobacco.

A.D. 1628--King Charles I of England, still wishing to pursue his participation in the
Thirty Year’s War then raging in Europe, but unable to raise money without Parliament,
is forced to call another Parliament. The new Parliament draws up a Petition of Right,
which amongst other things referred to the Magna Carta and said that a citizen should
have freedom from arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, non-parliamentary taxation, the
enforced billeting of troops, and martial law. Desperate for money, Charles accepts it as a
concession to get his subsidy. Also in this year, King Charles reissues the Thirty-Nine
articles into the Church of England. This is seen, both at home and by the Tawantinsuya,
as a move toward Rome and as evidence of the King’s Catholic leanings.

A.D. 1629-1640--The Eleven Years’ Tyranny in England: King Charles I, determined not
to summon another Parliament, instead rules by personal edict. He enrages many by
imposing what many view as unjust taxes, in particular by extending the “ship money”
tax, a tax for the upkeep of the Royal Navy which had traditionally been levied only on
seaports, to the inland counties as well.

A.D. 1630--An expedition sponsored by the Dutch West India Company captures
Pernambuco (now Recife) and Olinda in Brazil. Most of the territory between Maranhão
Island and the lower course of the São Francisco River falls to the Dutch in subsequent
operations. The Dutch establish trading settlements in Brazil, where they export sugar
and silver. They also try, but fail, to crush the Quilombo of Palmares.

A.D. 1630--More than 1000 Puritans settle in Massachusetts.

A.D. 1630--Thirty Years War: Gustavus Adolphus, King of Sweden, invades Holy
Roman Empire to protect Protestant states.

A.D. 1631--Thirty Years War: Catholic army under General Tilly sacks Madgeburg.

A.D. 1632--Galileo, “Dialogues Concerning Two World Systems,” presents evidence for
heliocentric solar system.

A.D. 1633--The Roman Inquisition forces Galileo to retract his views. King Charles I of
England appoints William Laud as Archbishop of Canterbury. Charles believes in a
sacramental version of the Church of England, called High Anglicanism, a theology
shared by Laud. Laud, upon his appointment as Archbishop, starts a series of reforms in
the Church to make it more ceremonial, starting with the replacement of the wooden
communion tables with stone altars. Puritans accuse Laud of trying to reintroduce
Catholicism, and Laud has them arrested.

A.D.1637--René Descartes establishes modern scientific method; Descartes also invented
coordinate geometry. In England, Puritan leaders John Bastwick, Henry Burton, and
William Prynne have their ears cut off for attacking the policies of Archbishop Laud.
This is a rare penalty for gentlemen to suffer, and arouses much anger.

A.D. 1639--France enters Thirty-Years War.

A.D. 1639-1640--The Bishop’s War in England. King Charles I, in furtherance of his
desire to have one unified, High Anglican Church across all of his kingdoms, attempts to
force the English Book of Common Prayer upon Scotland. The Scots react explosively,
and when King Charles sends an army north against them, it is defeated. As a result he is
forced to agree to the humiliating Pacification of Berwick, in which he agrees not only to
not interfere with the Scottish Church, but also to pay Scottish war expenses!

A.D. 1640--Portugal rebels against Spanish rule, and a native dynasty is restored for the
first time in sixty years when King John IV of the House of Braganza ascends the throne.
Also in this year, TupacYupanqui Inca II of the Tawantinsuyu Empire dies. He is
succeeded by his son, who reigns as Wayna Capac Inca II. Wayna Capac Inca is, like his
father, a Christian, and will continue to encourage the spread of the Protestant brand of
Christianity within his empire. Also in April 1640, in need of money to raise another
army to put down the rebellion in Scotland, King Charles I recalls Parliament, ending his
eleven-year period of personal rule. Parliament takes this appeal for money as an
opportunity to discuss grievances against the Crown, and to express opposition to the
military option. Charles takes exception to this and dismisses the Parliament in May...this
Parliament will be known to history as “The Short Parliament.” Without Parliament's
support, Charles attacks Scotland again and is comprehensively defeated; the Scots,
seizing the moment, take Northumberland and Durham. Desperate, Charles is forced to
recall Parliament in November 1640. None of the issues raised in the “Short Parliament”
had been addressed, and again Parliament takes the opportunity to raise them, refusing to
be dismissed...this Parliament will be known to history as “The Long Parliament.” The
Parliament passes laws stipulating that Parliament should be reformed every three years
and refusing the king's right to dissolve Parliament. Other laws are passed making it
illegal for the king to impose his own taxes, and giving members control over the king's
ministers.

A.D. 1640--The English and Tawantinsuya East India Company builds a trading center at
Madras. From its base in Madras Indian cottons are shipped to the East Indies to buy
spices aboard both English and Tawantinsuya ships.

A.D. 1641--King Charles I of England, thinking he sees a way to continue his war
without having to ask Parliament for money, turns to Ireland, where his able Viceroy, the
Earl of Strafford, had successfully raised much needed money for Charles by granting
religious concessions to the Irish Catholic gentry in exchange for taxes. Strafford had
raised an Irish Catholic army, and offers it to Charles for use against the rebellious Scots.
The idea of using a Catholic army, based on Protestant English soil, against Protestant
Scots, causes much outrage in Parliament, and the Earl of Strafford is arrested and
charged with treason. Although Parliament is unable to prove it’s case, King Charles is
forced to sign a Bill of Attainder ordering his execution. The execution of Strafford leads
to rebellion in Ireland later that year, and rumors start that the Irish are being supported by
King Charles.

A.D. 1642-1646--First English Civil War. Relations between King Charles I and his
Parliament finally reach the breaking point, and war results. In January 1642, Charles
attempts to arrest several of the most radical members of Parliament, but fails when the
Parliament openly refuses to hand the men over. Everyone recognizes this as a virtual
declaration of war, and both sides soon begin raising armies. Later in January, Charles
sends his wife Henrietta Maria to the Continent to enlist Catholic support for his cause
against Parliament. She is also to pawn the crown jewels to buy arms. Incidentally, when
news of Queen Henrietta Maria’s mission reaches the Tawantinsuya, it deepens their
suspicions about King Charles, and relations chill even further. The new Inca, Wayna
Capac II, declares their neutrality and virtually ceases trading with England (the one
major exception being continued participation in the English and Tawantinsuya East India
Company). Thus a potential source of revenue for the King is cut off at the very time he
most needs it. The war quickly spreads and eventually involves every level of society
throughout the British Isles. Many areas attempt to remain neutral but find it impossible
to withstand both the King and Parliament. On one side the king and his supporters fight
for traditional government in Church and state. On the other, supporters of Parliament
seek radical changes in religion and economic policy and major reforms in the
distribution of power at the national level. Despite some early royalist victories, in the
end, the Parliamentarian forces are triumphant, and Charles is captured in the summer of
1646, ending the war.

A.D. 1644-1654--Portuguese colonists in those areas of Brazil held by the Dutch, urged
on by the restored native dynasty in Portugal, revolt against their Dutch overlords. After
a bitter, ten-year struggle, the Dutch finally capitulate. Brazil is once again under the rule
of Portugal.

A.D. 1644--The Portuguese attempt, and fail, to destroy the Quilombo of Palmares.

A.D. 1646-1648--The Interregnum in England. During this period, King Charles I was a
prisoner and Parliament, lead by Oliver Cromwell, rules the country directly. King
Charles is basically forgotten as Parliament and the Army squabbles over such things as
arrearages of pay. The conservative faction within Parliament is also concerned by the
strong Puritan contingent within the Army, which it views as a threat. Parliament
attempts to disband the Army, the Army refuses to be disbanded and marches on London.
Whilst all this is going on, King Charles, still a prisoner, is meanwhile negotiating with
the Scots for support against Parliament.

A.D. 1646 onward--Wayna Capac Inca II, upon learning of the capture and imprisonment
of King Charles I of England and the advent of direct Parliamentary rule over England,
has mixed feelings. While he strongly disliked King Charles and felt he was taking
England toward an alliance with the enemies of the Tawantinsuya (i.e. Roman
Catholicism), he happens to share Charles’ belief in the divine right of kings. After all,
the Inca is considered the representative of God on earth in his own realm (indeed, up
until a couple of decades ago, the Inca was considered to be A GOD ON EARTH, and
many in his realm still consider him so). Should not all Kings be considered likewise?
So although relations and trade resume between the two realms at the conclusion of war,
relations remain somewhat chilly.

A.D. 1647-1659--French-Spanish war.

A.D. 1647--The English colonize the Bahamas.

A.D. 1648--Peace of Westphalia ends Thirty-Years War. The results of the treaty were
wide ranging. Among other things, the Netherlands gained independence from Spain,
ending the Eighty Years War, and Sweden gained several territories in Germany. The
power of the Holy Roman Emperor was broken, and the rulers of the German states were
again able to determine the religion of their lands. The treaty also gave Calvinists legal
recognition. Three new great powers arose from this peace: Sweden, the United
Netherlands and France. The Peace of Westphalia initiates the modern fashion of
diplomacy as it marks the beginning of the modern system of nation states (or
"Westphalian states"). Subsequent wars will not about issues of religion, but will rather
revolve around issues of state. This will allow Catholic and Protestant Powers to ally,
leading to a number of major realignments in the upcoming years.

A.D. 1648-1649--The Second English Civil War. A Scottish invasion in support of King
Charles takes place in mid 1648, but is defeated. A series of royalist rebellions also take
place, but all are defeated by the end of 1648. In the aftermath of the war and what it
perceives as the betrayal by King Charles, and disgusted that Parliament still
countenances the King’s rule, the Parliament’s army turns on it, conducting a purge in
which 45 members of Parliament are arrested and another 146 are refused to take their
seats. A “Rump Parliament” of only 75 of the most radical members is left, and this body
moves forward on a proposal to bring the King to trial on a charge of treason. Charles I is
convicted, and condemned to be beheaded. The sentence is carried out on January 30,
1649.

A.D. 1648-1653--French civil war.

A.D. 1649--The “Rump Parliament” abolishes the Monarchy and the House of Lords in
England. The House of Commons, through a Council of State, rules England. England is
declared a “Commonwealth and a Free State.” Wayna Capac Inca II is utterly shocked
when he hears of this, following as it does upon the news of the execution of Charles I.
Relations between England and the Tawantinsuya remain correct, but chilly.

A.D. 1649-1652--Oliver Cromwell bloodily suppresses Catholic and Royalist resistance
in Ireland. Virtually all Irish Catholic land is seized and given to the English Parliament’s
creditors, former soldiers, and Protestant residents of Ireland. The Irish Catholic
majority is reduced to the status of tenant farmers...virtual serfdom...working for English
Protestant landlords.

A.D. 1650--English settlers, sent by Lord Willoughby, Governor of Barbados, settle in the
Guianas, on the South American coast north of Brazil (in OTL Suriname). Oliver
Cromwell defeats the Scots, who have rallied to the standard of Prince Charles Stuart
(son of the executed King Charles I), at the Battle of Dunbar. Parliament passes an act
prohibiting trade with the Royalist colonies in Virginia, Bermuda, Barbados and Antigua.
General-at-Sea Ayscue is sent to recover Barbados.

c. A.D. 1650 onward--At about this time, Portuguese explorers from Sao Paulo
(Paulistas) first reach the upper course of the Paraná River. Because these expeditions
are undertaken principally for the purpose of enslaving the Native Americans, the
Paulistas encounter vigorous opposition from the Jesuits who have been exploring the
interior of Brazil for decades. Supported by the Crown in their efforts to protect the
Native Americans, the Jesuits finally triumph, and many Paulistas thereupon become
prospectors. A feverish hunt for mineral wealth ensues.

A.D. 1651--Charles II is crowned at Scone, and is recognized by the English
Commonwealth as “King of the Scots.” However, Charles refuses to give up claim to the
English throne, and a Scottish army invades England later that year. It is defeated, and
Charles flees to France. Parliament issues a Declaration for the incorporation of Scotland
into a single commonwealth with England.

A.D. 1652--George Fox establishes the Society of Friends (Quakers). The Dutch
establish a colony called New Amsterdam in North America encompassing the area of the
Hudson River.

A.D. 1652-1654--First Anglo-Dutch War. Friction had been increasing since the early
17th century as both nations competed in maritime trade and colonial expansion.
However, the English Council of State regarded the Protestant Dutch Republic as a
natural ally of the English Commonwealth in its apocalyptic struggle against Monarchy
and Popery. A diplomatic team went to The Hague in October 1650 to negotiate an
alliance between the two nations. Dutch republicans were in favour, but supporters of the
influential House of Orange vehemently opposed the alliance, expressing outrage at the
execution of King Charles I and refusing to recognise the Commonwealth. Furthermore,
the Dutch signed a treaty with Denmark in February 1651 which had the effect of injuring
English trade in the Baltic. With the failure of his diplomatic mission, Parliament drafted
the provocative Navigation Act of October 1651, which greatly increased tensions
between the two nations.

During the winter and spring of 1651-2, large numbers of Dutch vessels were intercepted
and searched. French support for the Royalists had led the Commonwealth to issue
"letters of reprisal", which authorised English captains to seize French cargoes carried in
Dutch ships. When George Ayscue arrived to claim the colony of Barbados for the
Commonwealth in October 1651, he seized 27 Dutch ships that were trading with the
Royalists in contravention of a Commonwealth embargo. The Commonwealth also
continued the traditional claim to sovereignty of the "British Seas" — from the North Sea
to Cape Finisterre — and required foreign ships in these waters to strike their flags to
English men-of-war as a mark of respect. Dutch ambassadors in London tried to ease the
growing tension, but war had become inevitable. The States General, which governed the
United Provinces after the death of the Stadtholder William II, decided to expand the fleet
by hiring and equipping 150 merchant ships as warships. The veteran admiral Maarten
Tromp put to sea in April 1652 with orders to protect Dutch shipping from English
aggression. After a confrontation between Tromp and Robert Blake off Dover in May,
war broke out in July 1652.

During the course of the war, which was fought entirely at sea, both sides are forced to
review naval administration and tactics. Following the English defeat at the battle of
Dungeness in November 1652, an Admiralty Committee is established which introduces
better rates of pay for seamen and greater efficiency in supplying the fleet. Reliance upon
the hiring and arming of merchant vessels is phased out because captains and owners are
often reluctant to risk damage to their ships in battle. The first official Articles of War
and Fighting Instructions are issued to English naval commanders, which will remain the
basis of naval tactics and discipline throughout the next century. The concept of fighting
in line-of-battle to maximize the use of the broadside is established for the first time. This
will give a definite advantage to the English fleet which has bigger and more powerful
warships ("ships of the line") than the Dutch, who continue to rely on armed merchant
vessels. The line-of-battle tactic will continue to be used in naval warfare for centuries to
come.

The death in action of Admiral Tromp in July 1653 would prove a severe blow to the
Dutch Orangist faction. The republican Jan de Witt succeeds in purging the Dutch fleet of
supporters of the House of Orange. Increasing republican influence in town councils
across the United Provinces created an atmosphere conducive to peace with the
Commonwealth. In England, peace negotiations began when moderates dissolved the
Nominated Assembly and handed power to Oliver Cromwell, who had never been in
favour of war against a Protestant nation. The Treaty of Westminster, signed in April
1654, was aimed principally at limiting the powers of the pro-Stuart House of Orange in
the United Provinces and at securing the expulsion of English Royalist exiles from Dutch
territory.

A.D. 1653--Oliver Cromwell dissolves Parliament. In it’s place a new body is formed,
called the Nominated Assembly. This, too, will not survive the year. In December, the
Nominated Assembly surrenders its powers to Cromwell, who is installed as Lord High
Protector. Cromwell will rule England as virtual Dictator for the next several years.

A.D. 1654-1667--Russian-Polish war; Russia captures the Ukraine.

A.D. 1654-1660--Anglo-Spanish War. After the ending of the First Anglo-Dutch War,
Cromwell turns his attention to England's traditional enemies, France and Spain. Both are
Catholic countries and Cromwell fervently believes it to be God's will that the Protestant
religion should prevail in Europe. Spain is selected as the principal target of England's
aggressive foreign policy partly because war against France risks the possibility of French
help in restoring the Stuarts to the throne of England. During the first year of the
Protectorate, Cromwell negotiates with the French statesman Cardinal Mazarin, resulting
in the drafting of an Anglo-French alliance against Spain in October 1655. He also
negotiates with Wayna Capac Inca II, seeking to draw the Tawantinsuya into the war
against the old common enemy, Spain. Wayna Capac Inca, although he deplores the
overthrow of the monarchy in England, nevertheless recognizes that Cromwell is
pursuing a policy which will benefit the Tawantinsuyu Empire by weakening Spain, and
he joins the war in early 1666. Tawantinsuya armies invade Colombia and Venezuela,
and by the end of the war have ejected the Spanish from all of South America.
Meanwhile, the Anglo-French army defeated it’s Spanish adversaries in Flanders over the
course of several years. In the treaties which end the war, England gains control of the
channel port of Dunkirk as well as of Jamaica in the West Indies, and Tawantinsuya
control of the former Spanish colonies of Colombia and Venezuela (formally called “New
Granada”) is recognized.

A.D. 1655-1660--Brandenburg–Russian war.

A.D. 1655--An English force under Admiral Sir William Penn and General Robert
Venables captures the Spanish colony at Jamaica. Over the succeeding decades, the
English will import hundreds of thousands of African slaves, who will be primarily used
to raise sugar. The sugar produced will quickly make Jamaica the most valuable of
Britain’s American colonies and one of the most valuable possessions in the world for the
next 200 years.

A.D. 1655--Zumbi is born in a village in the Quilombo of Palmares.

A.D. 1656--Christiaan Huygens begins development of pendulum clock. This will be a
major advance for navigation.

A.D. 1657--The Governor of Jamaica issues an invitation to buccaneers to base
themselves at Port Royal as a deterrent to Spanish aggression. Thus begins Jamaica’s
career as a pirate haven. This creates much friction between England and the
Tawantinsuya, as the pirates of Jamaica are not at all shy about seizing Tawantinsuya
ships in the Caribbean.

A.D. 1657-1658--The English defeat two Spanish attempts to retake Jamaica.

A.D. 1660--Oliver Cromwell dies, and the English monarchy is reestablished with the
restoration of King Charles II. Also in this year, the English settlements in the Guianas
are invaded by the Dutch under Abraham Crinjsen. The Dutch establish control over the
region.

A.D. 1661--Louis XIV crowned King of France. By treaty between the Netherlands and
Portugal, the Dutch formally renounce their claims to Brazil.

A.D. 1661--The English and Tawantinsuya East India Company occupies Bombay.

A.D. 1662--English Royal Society founded. Zumbi of Palmares is taken prisoner by
Portuguese soldiers. He is given to a Portuguese priest, who baptises him and teaches
him Portuguese and Latin. King Charles II of England marries Catherine of Braganza, a
Catholic Portuguese princess. Although this does not much affect his popularity in
England, it does raise suspicions among the Tawantinsuya, and relations between
England and the Tawantinsuyu Empire chill measurably.

A.D. 1663--French crown takes direct rule of New France (Canada). Death of Wayna
Capac Inca II. He is succeeded by his son, who reigns as Atahualpa Inca II.

A.D. 1664--English capture New Amsterdam and rename it New York. The Dutch still
dispute ownership of the region, however.

A.D. 1664-1666--Isaac S. Newton develops laws of gravity.

A.D. 1665-1667--Second Anglo-Dutch War. After the Restoration of King Charles II,
there is a general surge of optimism in England, accompanied by a great hope to end the
Dutch dominance in world trade. English privateers begin to attack Dutch ships,
capturing about 200 of them by 1665. After incidents involving the English capture of
Dutch trading posts and colonies in North America (including New Amsterdam) and
West Africa, the Dutch declare war in January 1665; in response, the English declare war
on the Netherlands in March 1665. The Dutch greatly outproduce the English, adding 80
warships to their fleet against English gains of only twelve new warships for England.
The English are also beset by two great disasters...the Great Plague of 1665 (which killed
upwards of 60,000 people) and the Great London Fire of 1666, which destroyed most of
the English capital city. Coupled with the pressures of the war, these disasters practically
cripple the English. So, although there are some English victories, the Dutch more than
hold their own, concluding with the humiliating Dutch raid on the Medway, in which the
Dutch fleet burns much of the English fleet while at anchor in supposedly safe harbor, as
well as capturing the English flagship, H.M.S. ROYAL CHARLES, and towing it back to
the Netherlands. The psychological impact of this final humiliation is enough to bring the
English to the negotiating table, and the Treaty of Breda is signed, by which the Dutch
agree to give up their claims to the New Amsterdam colony in exchange for the
withdrawal of English claims to the Guianas. It is not a satisfying peace for either power,
and it will not last long.

A.D. 1665--Death of King Philip IV of Spain. He is succeeded by his son, who reigns as
King Charles II. Physically disabled and disfigured and mentally retarded, sadly weak in
mind and body, barely able to walk and speak, he is not the leader Spain needs at this
time to recover it’s lost glory. He will also prove to be impotent, and thus will be the last
of the Spanish Habsburg dynasty.

A.D. 1666--Isaac Newton discovers the spectrum.

A.D. 1666--French Académie Royale des sciences founded.

A.D. 1667-1668--The War of Devolution. In 1667, King Louis XIV orders the French
army to invade the Spanish Netherlands, intent on seizing control of the rich market cities
of the Catholic Low Countries and their long-established textile trade, which competed
with French interests; the ports that offer advantageous positions opening on the English
Channel and the North Sea; and opportunity to control river traffic at the mouth of the
Rhine River. This naked aggression soon brings together an alliance of French
enemies...England, the Netherlands, and Sweden...which issues a decree granting Louis
the territory he had demanded at the start of the war, but warns that if the French continue
their offensive beyond those lines the three would join the Spanish in repelling them.
Ill-positioned to oppose four of the great powers of Europe at once, Louis XIV backs
down, and the Treaty of Aix la Chapelle is signed in 1668. France gains some minor
territory in Flanders, but the Spanish Netherlands, as well as Franche-Comté, are returned
to Spain.

A.D. 1670--Britain establishes the Hudson Bay Company in Canada. Zumbi runs away
from his Portuguese captors. He returns to the Quilombo of Palmares.

A.D. 1671--Isaac Newton invents the reflecting telescope. Leibniz invents an adding
machine.

A.D. 1672-1674--The Third Anglo-Dutch War: The English, in alliance with the French,
again attack the Netherlands in 1672, sparking a two-year war. In general, the war goes
very badly for the English, who suffer several naval defeats, as well as losing control of
the colonies of New York and New Jersey. But the Dutch are also hard pressed, and in
the end, all agree to a peace based on “status quo ante bellum” at the Treaty of
Westminster. Interestingly, the Stadholder of the Netherlands at the time was William III
of Orange, who would later become (following the Glorious Revolution) King William
III of England.

A.D. 1673--Jacques Marquette and Louis Joliet explore the Mississippi River for
France.

A.D. 1674--France establishes it’s first trading colonies in India.

A.D. 1675--Beginning of Construction of St. Paul's Cathedral, London; establishment of
Greenwich Observatory (both designed by Christopher Wren). Olaus Roemer calculates
speed of light. In battle against Portuguese soldiers, Zumbi proves himself as a great
warrior and military planner.

A.D. 1677--Anton van Leeuwenhoek , inventor of single-lens microscope, discovers
protozoa; he will discover bacteria in 1683.

A.D. 1678--Deciding that the Palmares Quilombo is not worth the men and resources it
would take to fully conquer it, Pedro Almeida, Portuguese governor of Pernambuco,
offers peace and freedom for all the runaway slaves in the Quilombo, if they will agree to
submit to Portuguese rule and cease raiding Portuguese plantations. The chief of the
Quilombo, Ganga Zumba, wants to agree to the terms, but is opposed by Zumbi, who
argues that the struggle to free the slaves of the plantations should go on. A power
struggle between the two men ensues, which Zumbi will eventually win.

A.D. 1680--The Portuguese dispatch an expedition southward to the east bank of the
estuary of the Río de la Plata (in what would, in OTL, become Uruguay) and found a
settlement called Colonia. This is in territory claimed by the Tawantinsuya, and an
extended period of undeclared warfare between the two powers over control of the region
will rage for the next seven years. At about the same time, Zumbi triumphs in the struggle
for control over the Palmares Quilombo, becoming the acknowledged chief of the
Quilombo. Zumbi knows that, in the end, the Quilombo cannot prevail against
Portugal...at least, not without allies. And while a prisoner of the Portuguese, he had
heard of a strange power to the south and west...the Tawantinsuya...who might just
become such an ally. By secret roads through the Amazon, Zumbi dispatches
messengers in search of the Tawantinsuya...who, just at this time, are coming into conflict
with Portugal over the settlement at Colonia.

A.D. 1681--A messenger from the Palmares Quilombo makes contact with the
Tawantinsuya. He is taken to Cuzco, where he is allowed to present his proposal to the
Inca himself. Atahualpa is amazed at the appearance of the man...the Tawantinsuya have
heard rumors of the black men who work as slaves on the plantations of the Spanish and
Portuguese, but up until now, have never seen them. He listens to the proposal of alliance
brought by the man, and although he does not think the Quilombo will likely succeed in
their struggle for freedom, he decides that it might be a good idea to help them simply
because they will draw men and resources away from his own borders. He orders regular
shipments of guns, powder, and other supplies to the Quilombo. Although it is
impractical to ship them overland, the Quilombo is quite near the seacoast, and
Tawantinsuya vessels will make secret rendezvous with men from the Quilombo at
pre-arranged times over the next several years. Some of these shipments will be
intercepted by the Portuguese, of course. Others, however, will not, and they will greatly
strengthen the ability of the Quilombo to resist the Portuguese.

A.D. 1682--Louis XIV establishes French court at Versailles. The French claim large
territories in Louisiana.

A.D. 1683--Turks besiege Vienna.

A.D. 1683-1689--Russia at war with China.

A.D. 1684--The infusions of Tawantinsuya guns, ammunition, and other weapons
emboldens Zumbi, who decides on a bold plan...nothing less than the total expulsion of
the Portuguese from Brazil and the creation of a free black nation. Zumbi’s plan is not as
crazy as it seems, as the total population of Brazil is, at this time, less than 200,000, of
which about 120,000 are African slaves, and only about 60,000 of which are white
(Portuguese, Spanish, or Dutch) with the remainder being native Indians and
mixed-bloods who are of dubious loyalty to their Portuguese overlords. If Zumbi can arm
a large enough proportion of the slave population, he just may triumph. Once again,
messengers are dispatched to Atahualpa Inca...

A.D. 1685--James II crowned King of England. Also in this year, messengers from the
Quilombo reach Atahualpa Inca, who agrees to increase the shipments of arms and
powder to the Quilombo in support of Zumbi’s plan to raise a slave army and expel the
Portuguese from Brazil. He also agrees to increase Tawantinsuya pressure on Brazil’s
southern border, so as to draw away as many of the Portuguese defenders as possible.
Also in this year, King Louis XIV of France revokes the Edict of Nantes.

A.D. 1687--Turks defeated at Mohacs. In Brazil, the Great Uprising, lead by Zumbi,
takes place in conjunction with Tawantinsuya incursions along the southern border of
Brazil. Massacres of Portuguese men, women, and children take place all over Brazil as
the slaves...armed with Tawantinsuya weapons...rise against their masters. The
Portuguese military forces, occupied with stopping the Tawantinsuya invasion, is unable
to protect the civilian populace. The fortunate flee to the ports, where they escape by sea.
The unfortunate perish, often in horrible ways. The Portuguese military command, afraid
of the alternative, surrenders to the Tawantinsuya, and most of the Portuguese military are permitted to take ship home to
Portugal. Portugal surrenders it’s settlement at Colonia to the Tawantinsuya. The
Tawantinsuya are somewhat sickened by the horrors of the slave revolt, but nevertheless
recognize the new Brazilian Quilombo, and issue statements warning against any attempt
by European powers to interfere there.

A.D. 1688--The Glorious Revolution in England. King James II is deposed, and William
of Orange (who is married to Mary, daughter of King James) is given the throne of
England. They reign as King William III and Queen Mary II.

A.D. 1688 onward--The accession of the firmly Protestant William III and Mary II to the
throne of England leads to greatly thawed relations between England and the
Tawantinsuya. This is especially true after news of the Act of Settlement, which prohibits
any Roman Catholic, or anyone who marries a Roman Catholic, from inheriting the
English throne, reaches the Tawantinsuya.

A.D. 1688-1697--War of the Grand Alliance between France and the Grand Alliance
(composed of most of Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, and England). In North
America, this will be known as “King William’s War,” the first of the so-called “French
and Indian Wars” fought between France and Britain for control of North America. The
Tawantinsuya remain neutral during the conflict.

A.D. 1689--In December, one of the most important constitutional documents in English
history, the Bill of Rights, is passed. The Act—which restates and confirms many
provisions of the earlier Declaration of Right—establishes restrictions on the royal
prerogative; it is provided, amongst other things, that the Sovereign can not suspend laws
passed by Parliament, levy taxes without parliamentary consent, infringe the right to
petition, raise a standing army during peacetime without parliamentary consent, deny the
right to bear arms to Protestant subjects, unduly interfere with parliamentary elections,
punish members of either House Parliament for anything said during debates, require
excessive bail or inflict cruel or unusual punishments. King William III is opposed to the
imposition of such constraints, but he wisely chooses not to engage in a conflict with
Parliament and agrees to abide by the statute. The nature of English monarchy is forever
changed. Also in this year, King William III defeats the first Jacobite uprising in
Scotland.

A.D. 1690--Christiaan Huygens proposes wave theory of light. The English and
Tawantinsuya East India Company builds trading centers in Calcutta. Also in this year,
King William III defeats the Irish supporters of the ousted King James II at the Battle of
the Boyne.

A.D. 1690 onward--The Tawantinsuya explore and occupy the lands at the southern tip of
South America and encompassing the Straits of Magellan. A Tawantinsuya naval base is
established in the region to control traffic through the Straits.

A.D. 1692--Port Royal, Jamaica is destroyed in an earthquake. The pirates who based
themselves there are scattered.

A.D. 1693--Rich gold deposits are discovered in the region of what would, in OTL, be
present-day Minas Gerais in Brazil. The mineral wealth is jointly exploited by the
Tawantinsuya and the Quilombo.

A.D. 1692-1693--Witchcraft trials, Salem, Massachusetts.

A.D. 1696--Thomas Savery invents first practical steam engine. However, it is not
immediately successful.

A.D. 1697--By the Treaty of Ryswick which ends the War of the Grand Alliance, King
Louis XIV of France formally recognizes William III as King of England, signaling the
end of French support for ousted King James II and his Jacobite faction.

A.D. 1699--Austrians recapture Hungary from Turks. Death of Atahualpa Inca II. He is
succeeded by his grandson, who reigns as Huascar Inca. The English and Tawantinsuya
East India Company begins trading in China, importing silk, tea and porcelain. In
England the demand for tea booms and by the late 1700s tea will account for more than
60% of the Company's total trade. It will also become very popular in the Tawantinsuyu
Empire as well.

INCAMAP1700.gif
 
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Very cool. I like it. I would imagine that the colonization of North America is going similarly to our timeline? Will butterflies prevent the rise of a nation analagous to the USA?
 
tetsu-katana said:
Very cool. I like it. I would imagine that the colonization of North America is going similarly to our timeline? Will butterflies prevent the rise of a nation analagous to the USA?

Overall, things are progressing along the lines of OTL in North America. There have been some minor changes in North America. For example, since Hernando DeSoto was killed along with Pizzaro in Peru, he never lead his march through the Southeast which spread disease which devastated the native peoples there. But then, just a few years later, Spanish missionaries moving north from Florida introduced the same diseases into the population, and it had much the same result, just a few years later. Elsewhere, it's pretty much as in OTL.

I don't really see the existence of the Tawantinsuyu Empire in South America affecting things much in North America, at least not so much as to derail the eventual emergence of the United States.
 

Darkest

Banned
Wow, this has quickly become one of my favorite ATLs, and I can't wait for it to continue. The existance of two powerful nations in South America, the Tawantinsuya and the Quilombo, is very interesting. Keep it up, Rob, I admire your diligence in this and your great amount of attention to all events in the world.

Good job!
- Darkest90
 
Good job! I like the details in Europe's history that seem so much akin to OTL's but a bit different due to the Incan factor. Just how big is the Incan merchant fleet ITTL?
 
Wow, Great Job on the Last Installment, I developed pretty much as I pictured it. I wonder how events will play out, during this next Century...Maybe Colonization of India and Indonesia by the Imperial Tawantinsuya...The Quilomboa begin deforestation as they attempt to make the transition to an urban nation? I can't wait to see how both(An Native American and a Black) Nation effects the Development of the United States. Gabriel Prosser may find the much needed financing from the Quilombo to successfully revolt against the US. The Tawantinsuya raging an great Naval War against the US, after hearing of the Tragedy of the Trail of Tears.

Which TL, in you great game of Timeline Roullett will be updated next.
 
Darkest90 said:
Wow, this has quickly become one of my favorite ATLs, and I can't wait for it to continue. The existance of two powerful nations in South America, the Tawantinsuya and the Quilombo, is very interesting. Keep it up, Rob, I admire your diligence in this and your great amount of attention to all events in the world.

Good job!
- Darkest90

Thank you. :)
 
G.Bone said:
Good job! I like the details in Europe's history that seem so much akin to OTL's but a bit different due to the Incan factor. Just how big is the Incan merchant fleet ITTL?

Probably not huge...maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of the size of England's at this period.
 
Historico said:
I wonder how events will play out, during this next Century...Maybe Colonization of India and Indonesia by the Imperial Tawantinsuya...

I don't see them wanting to get into a war with the Dutch over Indonesia. The English and Tawantinsuya East India Company have pretty much been expelled from that region. As for colonization of India, they are getting into a bit of that as a partner of England, but I don't see them as great colonizers on their own account. One thing this might do is alter English policies in India a bit...since they are colonizing in partnership with a "brown" race, mayhaps the English won't look down on the people of India so much and come to see them as the "white man's burden."

Historico said:
The Quilomboa begin deforestation as they attempt to make the transition to an urban nation?

I don't see the Quilombo becoming a major power or urbanizing to any great degree for some time. More likely they will be a relatively undeveloped and weak protectorate of the Tawantinsuya. The Quilombo will produce timber and other resources for the Tawantinsuya in exchange for protection. The Quilombo might also export sugar and cacao, like the Portuguese were doing. Although, I have a hard time seeing former slaves, having rebelled and fled the plantations, willingly going back to producing the same stuff they did on the plantations (although it happened, at least to some degree, in Haiti...which is the historical basis I will probably be using when modeling the Quilombo state...so it might happen here, too).

Historico said:
I can't wait to see how both(An Native American and a Black) Nation effects the Development of the United States. Gabriel Prosser may find the much needed financing from the Quilombo to successfully revolt against the US. The Tawantinsuya raging an great Naval War against the US, after hearing of the Tragedy of the Trail of Tears.

There will, no doubt, be some influence on the United States, but probably not in such direct form as you are envisioning. I think we once again run into the "why should I care" factor. As I said before, there is not going to be a "racial identity" factor going on at this stage of history...that really didn't start until modern times...to drive the Tawantinsuya or the Quilombo into direct intervention in the U.S. But I can see some things changing in the U.S. The spectacle of a successful slave revolt in Brazil, for example, might be enough to prevent slavery from taking firm root in the U.S. in the first place. The final transition from indentured servitude to slavery in Virginia was only completed around 1680 (although it had begun much earlier)...right about the time the Brazilian uprising takes place...and in other places the institution had been legal for only 20 to 30 years at that point. Or it might encourage a far more brutal form of slavery which aims to totally prevent any possibility of slave uprising (think the antebellum slave codes magnified by a factor of ten).

Personally, I think the former is more likely. In 1680 there were only about 2,000 blacks in Virginia, representing about 20% of the total population, and not all of these were slaves (probably 10% were indentured servants). In 1680 in Maryland, the other major holder of slaves at this period, there were 4 times as many white indentured servants as there were black slaves (by 1710 that ratio would be reversed). (Data from here). It would clearly have been much easier and less disruptive for slavery to be ended at this period than it would have been later on.

In fact, I will go ahead and offer this as a possible addition to the timeline...if our readers shoot it down in flames, it can always be eliminated.

ADDITIONS TO EARLIER SEGMENTS OF THE TIMELINE

A.D. 1690--News of the successful slave revolt in Brazil, and Tawantinsuya support of it, has caused much consternation in England. Many in England are horrified that their erstwhile allies would support such an indiscriminate massacre of Christians, even if they are "papists." But even more fundamentally, the revolt in Brazil has pointed out a serious weakness inherent in the slave system of labor which is gradually spreading through England's colonies in the New World...the possibility that foreign powers could incite rebellions and massacres by the slaves. For example, in North America, the English share borders with both Spanish and French colonies, which could easily become conduits for smuggling of arms to the slaves. And the recent massacre carried out by the French and their Indian allies at Schenectady, New York, in January 1690 only serves to heighten fears as to what the French might resort to next...if the French are capable of butchering women and children by their own hands, or of using Native Americans to do the same thing, why would they be squeemish about using slaves for the same purpose? A debate in Parliament rages over this subject for several months in mid-1690 as lawmakers argue over the economic consequences of ending slavery versus the very real threat which foreign-supported slave rebellions cause. Finally, in September 1690, Parliament passes the Abolition Bill. The new law states that effective on January 1, 1691, it shall be illegal to import slaves into any English colony. New indentured servants may be imported, but black indentured servants shall enjoy all legal protections given to white indentured servants, and no indentured servant thus imported shall be indentured to labor for more than seven years. Furthermore, all children of slaves or indentured servants born after January 1, 1691 will be free. In order to cushion the economic impact of the abolition law, all slaves held in bondage prior to January 1, 1691 will become the indentured servants of their current masters for a term of twenty years, with all the legal protections given to white indentured servants.

There is much outcry in some of the colonies, especially in Jamaica, Barbados, and other Caribbean sugar islands which depend heavily on slavery, when news of this law reaches them. The outcry is much less in the North American colonies, where slavery has not yet taken deep root. But King William makes in known that he will enforce the law and deal with any who resist it as traitors, and the the law does function as intended. Within twenty years, there are no slaves in any of the British colonies, and no indentured servants bound for more than seven years labor. Black indentured servants are not treated markedly differently than white ones are, and blacks who have completed their indentures are living in sizeable numbers as free men throughout the colonies. Many of these, lacking land of their own, will take the westward trails in the upcoming century, forming a major part of the impetus for westward expansion of the British American colonies, alongside the Scots Irish and other major immigrant groups.

Historico said:
Which TL, in you great game of Timeline Roullett will be updated next.

I haven't decided yet.
 
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Another very good installment of an excellent TL. I am glaf to see you vigorously resisting wild "wander far afield" suggestions.

I think the Jesuits will try to infiltrate/manipulate Quilombo (they are Jesuits after all). If they have even medium success I see the Incans becoming unhappy and possibly intervening.

You seem to want to justify slavery not taking root (Roots?) in the South. I am not sure about this. What I am sure is this will probably drag in some of your old enemies from CSA TL's. I hope this one doesn't degenerate into the same sort of Rant Fest they usually do (heavy sigh).

What you should start thinking about is a possible impact of South America on the Enlightenment. I think Voltaire and even more Rousseau would be very interested in both the Incans and their Quilombo neigbbors.

Tom
 
Tom_B said:
Another very good installment of an excellent TL. I am glaf to see you vigorously resisting wild "wander far afield" suggestions.

I think the Jesuits will try to infiltrate/manipulate Quilombo (they are Jesuits after all). If they have even medium success I see the Incans becoming unhappy and possibly intervening.

Very possibly.

Tom_B said:
You seem to want to justify slavery not taking root (Roots?) in the South. I am not sure about this. What I am sure is this will probably drag in some of your old enemies from CSA TL's. I hope this one doesn't degenerate into the same sort of Rant Fest they usually do (heavy sigh).

No, I don't want to "justify slavery not taking root in the South." I simply pointed out that it would likely have been easier to eliminate slavery in the late 1600s than later on because there were actually very few slaves at that time in North America. I fail to see why this should start a flame war.

I just think that something like that is much more likely than Historico's scenario where the Quilombo is financing Gabriel Prosser.

Tom_B said:
What you should start thinking about is a possible impact of South America on the Enlightenment. I think Voltaire and even more Rousseau would be very interested in both the Incans and their Quilombo neigbbors.

Tom

I agree, that could have some interesting effects.
 
robertp6165 said:
I don't see them wanting to get into a war with the Dutch over Indonesia. The English and Tawantinsuya East India Company have pretty much been expelled from that region. As for colonization of India, they are getting into a bit of that as a partner of England, but I don't see them as great colonizers on their own account. One thing this might do is alter English policies in India a bit...since they are colonizing in partnership with a "brown" race, mayhaps the English won't look down on the people of India so much and come to see them as the "white man's burden."

Now, my knowledge on the Dutch Imperialistic Age is Kinda Sketchy, can someone briefly refresh my memory. Also, England with it's thawed relations with the Tawantinsuya might reconsider...their relationship with the Iroquis...They could give them horses, Guns and an wider Birth so they could be successful allies against the french.



robertp6165 said:
I don't see the Quilombo becoming a major power or urbanizing to any great degree for some time. More likely they will be a relatively undeveloped and weak protectorate of the Tawantinsuya. The Quilombo will produce timber and other resources for the Tawantinsuya in exchange for protection. The Quilombo might also export sugar and cacao, like the Portuguese were doing. Although, I have a hard time seeing former slaves, having rebelled and fled the plantations, willingly going back to producing the same stuff they did on the plantations (although it happened, at least to some degree, in Haiti...which is the historical basis I will probably be using when modeling the Quilombo state...so it might happen here, too).


TO EARLIER SEGMENTS OF THE TIMELINE

A.D. 1690--News of the successful slave revolt in Brazil, and Tawantinsuya support of it, has caused much consternation in England. Many in England are horrified that their erstwhile allies would support such an indiscriminate massacre of Christians, even if they are "papists." But even more fundamentally, the revolt in Brazil has pointed out a serious weakness inherent in the slave system of labor which is gradually spreading through England's colonies in the New World...the possibility that foreign powers could incite rebellions and massacres by the slaves. For example, in North America, the English share borders with both Spanish and French colonies, which could easily become conduits for smuggling of arms to the slaves. And the recent massacre carried out by the French and their Indian allies at Schenectady, New York, in January 1690 only serves to heighten fears as to what the French might resort to next...if the French are capable of butchering women and children by their own hands, or of using Native Americans to do the same thing, why would they be squeemish about using slaves for the same purpose? A debate in Parliament rages over this subject for several months in mid-1690 as lawmakers argue over the economic consequences of ending slavery versus the very real threat which foreign-supported slave rebellions cause. Finally, in September 1690, Parliament passes the Abolition Bill. The new law states that effective on January 1, 1691, it shall be illegal to import slaves into any English colony. New indentured servants may be imported, but black indentured servants shall enjoy all legal protections given to white indentured servants, and no indentured servant thus imported shall be indentured to labor for more than seven years. Furthermore, all children of slaves or indentured servants born after January 1, 1691 will be free. In order to cushion the economic impact of the abolition law, all slaves held in bondage prior to January 1, 1691 will become the indentured servants of their current masters for a term of twenty years, with all the legal protections given to white indentured servants.

There is much outcry in some of the colonies, especially in Jamaica, Barbados, and other Caribbean sugar islands which depend heavily on slavery, when news of this law reaches them. The outcry is much less in the North American colonies, where slavery has not yet taken deep root. But King William makes in known that he will enforce the law and deal with any who resist it as traitors, and the the law does function as intended. Within twenty years, there are no slaves in any of the British colonies, and no indentured servants bound for more than seven years labor. Black indentured servants are not treated markedly differently than white ones are, and blacks who have completed their indentures are living in sizeable numbers as free men throughout the colonies. Many of these, lacking land of their own, will take the westward trails in the upcoming century, forming a major part of the impetus for westward expansion of the British American colonies, alongside the Scots Irish and other major immigrant groups.

Wow, I wasn't expecting that Additon :D. I am on the edge of my seat, trying to figure out how the United States will develop in this Timeline(They might not ever Unite!). The Freedman going west...Could we see an possible Black Republic of Texas? And is Purtainism being accepted by the NA Native Americans like the Tawantinsuya. The Quilombo might Politically resemble Hati but, larger population base, more valuable Rescources can make or break a nation. Once The Steam Engine hits TTL's South America as could see them tapping into alot of potential.



robertp6165 said:
I haven't decided yet.

Cool, I look forward to whatever you come up with.
 

Darkest

Banned
A shameless bump.

So, robert, is the next installment going to be a 100 years or less (as we get closer to modern day, I assume we'll go slower. I mean, on your third installment you'll be all the way to the year 1800! That's getting real close to the present)

Keep it up,
Darkest90
 
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