The Dead Skunk

[Stolengood]

...Lycaon, I'm just going to quote another user and myself on what I feel's a pertinent issue with your TL, here; you take it how you will:

I kind of hate 'maximum butterflies' just from a reader's perspective.

Timelines have the dual purpose, imo, of being both an intellectual exercise 'what would happen next if this happened' and a story. ... When you start mapping out an entire world where things have gone different just because it's a different timeline so things will go different, you don't really do either of those things any more.

The intellectual exercise isn't there, as what's different isn't "the English do this so in response the Spanish do that and the Ffrench do this so the Wars of Religion go differently" but the author randomly decided that "this would happen" in Poland so Russia is different. The 'if this then what' mental fun only works if you have a straight line to compare it with if you see how our history is altered, how the same drivers play out differently due to the wrinkle. Once butterflies pop up that aspect is lost.

And instead of getting a coherent streamlined story about your protagonists, the narrative has to jump all over the place desperately trying to cover the entire world. ... in a maximum butterfly timeline, I'd write a twenty page backstory showing how Paraguay became a communist country run by a ballerina's workers union.

That sort of things kills timelines because they become monstrous and hard to track. The best timelines stick to their subject.

...which is why it becomes deeply frustrating when TLs like All Along the Watchtower or The Dead Skunk go dark for years at a time because the author is so busy doing in-depth research for completely irrelevant and unnecessary updates about Guatemala or the Ottoman Empire -- that's waaay outside the purview of the TLs, and it's not the focus of what we came to read. Know how to prune, and when to stop and say, "Hmmmmm, are all these 45 paragraphs about Quattro's dictatorship or this Bey getting creamed by the Greeks really needed to advance the story, or can I just pare it down and finally deal with the 1964 election or how John Quincy Adams is building up America's defense against Britain?"

It completely kills the work dead every time it happens.

 

[Lycaon pictus]

Thanks for the honesty. Getting lost in worldbuilding is kind of an occupational hazard. I think we've all been using Look to the West as a how-to guide without asking ourselves if we can really do that.

Since the next few months don't look any better than the last few as far as time goes, I've been thinking I should find a new format to speed things up. Sticking with North America and Western Europe and saving the rest of the world for the big five-year interlude posts would help. (Unless, of course, something really big happens outside there.)

 

[Stolengood]

Thanks for the honesty. Getting lost in worldbuilding is kind of an occupational hazard. I think we've all been using Look to the West as a how-to guide without asking ourselves if we can really do that.

Since the next few months don't look any better than the last few as far as time goes, I've been thinking I should find a new format to speed things up. Sticking with North America and Western Europe and saving the rest of the world for the big five-year interlude posts would help. (Unless, of course, something really big happens outside there.)

Thank you for taking it so well. I was really worried I was being way too harsh -- it's your TL, after all; I'm only a reader.

 

[Lycaon pictus]

Not a problem. To be honest, what was going through my mind when I was researching that East Turkestan post was "dammit, I don't even care about East Turkestan and the online sources are all crap, but this is the start of a war that will seriously weaken China and I feel like I have to say something." (You'll notice that post was kind of short.)

 

[Stolengood]

Not a problem. To be honest, what was going through my mind when I was researching that East Turkestan post was "dammit, I don't even care about East Turkestan and the online sources are all crap, but this is the start of a war that will seriously weaken China and I feel like I have to say something." (You'll notice that post was kind of short.)

Fair enough. I mean, do it at whatever pace you're comfortable with, of course -- on reflection, I've really no right to complain about it. The unconscious frustration just sort of... boiled over, I guess. I'm sorry.

 

[SenatorChickpea]

For what it's worth, I strongly disagree. Timelines like Malê Rising thrive because they understand that their core narrative strand is enriched by the exploration fo the changing world around it.

If this timeline had kept narrowly to Louisiana-or even Louisiana and the immediate effects on the Napoleonic Wars- we wouldn't have the in depth exploration of Italy post war, for example, which I think was arguably the highlight of the narrative thus far.

Keep on exploring the fascinating setting you're building.

 

[My Username is Inigo Montoya]

Keep doing whatever it is you're doing, dear painted dog. The results are always enjoyable.

 

[Lycaon pictus]

The Sabine swamps had been, if not entirely conquered, at least partly overcome. The road had at last reached the river itself, built on layered brush and dirt, its foundations pierced with drainpipes. The people of the new parish of Sabine Est were beginning to reconcile themselves to their status as citizens, although collecting taxes from them was still a hazardous occupation.

So much for the easy part. The west bank of the Sabine was as swampy as the east bank, but that wasn’t the problem. The problem was that there was a considerable stretch of ground to cover to bring the road all the way to Fort-Keane — and whether its length was measured in miles or kilometers, every one of them would be paid for in blood. The Atakapa, or Ichacq[1] as they preferred to be called, had been in a state of low-grade warfare with Louisiana since the building of Fort-Lafitte and Fort-You earlier in the decade. If the road were completed, they had only subjugation or destruction to look forward to. So when the roadbuilders crossed the Sabine, they would need to come shooting.

This would be a far more difficult fight than the defeat of Aury’s pirates, for two reasons. First, President Villeré meant for Louisiana to wage and win this war with a minimum of assistance from the British Empire, to prove that the little republic could tend to some matters itself. Second, Pierre Denis de la Roche, the effective founding father of Louisiana’s army, had died the previous year.[2] This war would be led by the 34-year-old General Isidore Labatut, son of War Minister Jean-Baptiste Labatut.

The state of war became the primary issue in the Louisiana elections of 1827. Conservatives and Radicals were in full agreement that this was a war of necessity for the republic, but the people were reluctant to change leaders in wartime. For this reason, the Conservatives were returned to power and Charles Dominique Joseph Bouligny replaced Jacques Villeré as President. However, the financial demands of the war meant that the tax cuts Conservatives had been promising for three years once again had to be deferred to another day…


General Labatut had the advantage of being able to recruit from two populations with in-depth knowledge of the enemy and an eagerness to prove themselves to the authorities in New Orleans. One was the Chacta of Guérriseurs, who had given the enemy their name of atakapa or “man-eater.” The other was the métis population of Sabine Est and western Saint-Landry, which had fought the Atakapa many times.

The Chacta fought as separate units, under his overall command but not integrated into the army proper. The métis, however, were only too happy to join the ranks of the Republic’s official forces. If some of them had been bandits or slave traffickers until fairly recently, Labatut was willing to overlook that for the sake of their fighting skill.

Another thing he had to overlook was their ethnicity. By Louisiana law, after 1816 only white men could join the army or navy (apart from the Chacta and Chicacha auxiliaries, of course.) The precise ancestry of the métis has never been established, but it is generally agreed to be a mixture of white, black and native blood. On the authority of the war minister, the definition of “white” for Army purposes was spelled out in such a way as to include anyone who was at least three-fourths white. Census data for this area being basicaly nonexistent, Labatut’s officers had to rely on the honest self-reporting of the recruits in this matter. Miraculously, every métis recruit turned out to be either fully white or (in cases where that claim could not plausibly be made) three-fourths white. As the younger Labatut cynically observed, “They’d say they were five-fourths white if they thought anybody would believe it.”

Michel Beauregard, A History of the Republic of Louisiana​

[1] Ishak
[2] He died in 1824 IOTL.

 

[Umbric Man]

Lovely and detailed map, which is pretty awesome for such a small state.

Go, Louisiana, go! I believe in the La Republique Cadien!

 

[Admiral Matt]

There might even be some Pacific Islander in there, for that matter - what happened to that Louisiana town founded by Filipino sailors IOTL? I'm blanking on the name. It predated the American Revolution I recall.

 

[yobbin]

Another thing he had to overlook was their ethnicity. By Louisiana law, only white men could serve in the armed forces (apart from the Chacta and Chicacha auxiliaries, of course.) The precise ancestry of the métis has never been established, but it is generally agreed to be a mixture of white, black and native blood. On the authority of the war minister, the definition of “white” for Army purposes was spelled out in such a way as to include anyone who was at least three-fourths white. Census data for this area being basicaly nonexistent, Labatut’s officers had to rely on the honest self-reporting of the recruits in this matter. Miraculously, every métis recruit turned out to be either fully white or (in cases where that claim could not plausibly be made) three-fourths white. As the younger Labatut cynically observed, “They’d say they were five-fourths white if they thought anybody would believe it.”

So the The Louisiana Battalion of Free Men of Color didn't survive the transition to independence?

 

[Japhy]

I always enjoyed the world building in the project but if that's over I'll just have to live with it. I'm eager to see the new format in action. Great piece on the Republic there.

 

[DAv]

Some good developments for the new Republic here, although not so much for the Native tribes. This promises to be a rather nasty and bloody conflict that could go wrong if Louisiana doesn't take the Natives as seriously as they should.

 

[Lycaon pictus]

So the The Louisiana Battalion of Free Men of Color didn't survive the transition to independence?

Existing nonwhite soldiers were grandfathered in. (Good point, though. I'll have to rewrite a little.)

 

[Lycaon pictus]

Note: I said "unless, of course, something really big happens outside there." This qualifies.

​

The effect of Favignana was to discredit Bourbon rule in Sicily, forcing Britain, Spain and Austria to choose between accepting a Sicilian republic and allowing Italy to support its partisans, overwhelm the republicans and annex Sicily. Reluctantly, they chose the latter, although the war would not truly end until 1829.​

​

It was also to persuade the Powers that enough was enough — it was time to do something about Barbary. Despite repeated humiliations by the British, Americans, French and Italians, the so-called Ottoman vassals could not or would not rein in piracy of their own accord. Others would have to do it for them — and the ideal time to do so was now, when the Ottoman Empire was at death’s door and rising Egypt was not yet strong enough to constitute a threat. At the same time, for any one nation to attempt to take over the Barbary Coast would risk a disastrous failure — and, if successful, would change the balance of power in the Mediterranean and disturb the wary peace that prevailed in western Europe.​

​

For most of 1826 and early 1827, heads of state and foreign ministers of seven nations corresponded over the fate of their unruly southern neighbors. Lord Clancarty exchanged latters with the governments of Spain, Portugal and Austria; the Duc de Bassano[1] personally met with Buonarroti and Foscolo[2]; and Clancarty and Bassano wrote to one another…​

H. Michael Wolcott, A History of Western International Diplomacy, 1648-1858​

May 23, 1827
Aboard the NdMI Aquila di Mare
Commodore Jacob Nicholas Jones gazed south through his spyglass. The coast of Tunisia was a thin line on the horizon. He’d been to the Barbary Coast before, of course, but seven years ago he hadn’t come this far east.

Behind him, the crew of the Italian navy’s flagship were adjusting the sails. He listened, but didn’t watch. Having come to Italy last year as an observer, he’d already gotten a pretty good sense of the speed and efficiency with which the sailors worked. They did everything they need to do, but they didn’t quite have the smooth perfection of British sailors or the best of the Americans. Too many new recruits, not enough old hands. But then, the ship itself, 56 meters long with four masts and 62 guns, had only been completed just after his arrival.

He turned to the right. In another example of the Marina Italiana’s experience shortage, the corvette Ettore Carafa had gotten a little ahead of the others. Unlike Italy’s frigates and (few) ships of the line, it had no engine, but it made good speed under sail. It was an elegant vessel not too different from a Baltimore clipper. It would need that speed if the pirates took advantage of its separation to single it out for attack.

Speak of the devil… here they came, a flotilla of small boats and ships. Dozens of them, mostly in poor repair. Pirates, or smugglers afraid of being mistaken for pirates… whatever they were, there were a lot of them. It seemed like more than six frigates and eleven corvettes should be able to handle. The Italian ships were shadowing them, out to sea, just out of range in a long line which the Carafa was at the head of.

The pirates had learned from the punishment they’d taken seven years ago. They were hugging the coast as close as they dared, never allowing the Italian navy to get between them and the shore. If necessary, the crew could abandon their ships and flee inland on foot.

It was only a shame that was all they’d learned. These algerines had rather less excuse for their conduct than the red men that were the U.S. Army’s usual foe. The very land on the horizon had been the land of ancient Carthage, and St. Augustine had once lived not far away. The Arabs and Berbers are no strangers to civilization. If they choose to prey on it rather than to be part of it, they must needs pay.

It seemed likely that this would be the last time they’d ever need such chastisement. This many of them coming here could only mean that the attacks on Morocco and Algeria had already happened. And — Jones turned his spyglass to the west — they were about to find out there was nowhere to flee to. Even if they escaped further east, Austria had a a respectable little Adriatic fleet consisting of ships bought from the British. That fleet was now dispatched to Tripoli.

And few if any of them would escape that way. Only a few minutes later, from out of the east came Italy’s only real ships of the line apart from the Aquila itself.[3] Just as the Turenne had done last time, the Utica and Zama were steaming west against the wind, not needing to tack at all, headed straight for the pirate fleet.

And when the sister ships were close enough, they shifted gears, slowed to a stop and began to turn in place. Waves formed on the sides of their bows where they pushed against the ocean. To Jones’ eyes, informed by many years of naval service, the motion looked wrong and painfully unnatural. The Utica and Zama were bigger than the Aquila, sixty meters long with fifteen-meter beams. Nothing that big should move like that. He wondered how it looked to the pirates.

Silly question. To the pirates, it looked like two 80-gun warships turning nearly half of those guns in their direction. A few of them broke out for the open sea. Most of them turned landward to beach themselves so their crews at least could escape.

Jones had a new respect for the steam engines and twin paddles. They had a prodigious appetite for coal, they would insist on breaking down and he still wasn’t sure how their armor would hold up under series cannon fire… but when they worked, they let you cross the T on an enemy ship at a moment of your own choosing. That was no small thing.



[1] France’s new foreign minister.
[2] Still PM and foreign minister. If this seems like a lot of continuity for the government of a relatively new nation, it’s because the governing Party of Liberal Unity has not one opposition party, but twelve — many of them small, regionally-based and prone to falling out over minor issues.
[3] The Italian navy, which is still pretty small and has a lot of coastline to defend and a limited supply of coal, is concentrating on smaller, lighter vessels.

 

[Stolengood]

Holy moley... when did steamships for battle get invented, ITTL?

 

[SenatorChickpea]

Interesting- and again, please keep up the updates on the rest of the world.

 

[Daztur]

Thanks for the honesty. Getting lost in worldbuilding is kind of an occupational hazard. I think we've all been using Look to the West as a how-to guide without asking ourselves if we can really do that.

Since the next few months don't look any better than the last few as far as time goes, I've been thinking I should find a new format to speed things up. Sticking with North America and Western Europe and saving the rest of the world for the big five-year interlude posts would help. (Unless, of course, something really big happens outside there.)

My own point of view is if you really get down in the weeds and look at everything your POD effects and everything those things that get effected effects you'll get what looks like a maximum butterfly scenrio pretty damn quickly without forcing things at all.

But that doesn't mean you have to SHOW all the butterflies. If you pick up OTL book about Atlantic politics in the aftermath of the War of 1812 it's only going to mention stuff that's going in in the rest of the world in passing if at all.

What's happened a lot with me is I read a TL where the author knows a looooot more than I do about the core subject of the TL but then later wanders into one of my pet interests and makes some basic mistakes. Hard to avoid feeling "if he got this wrong, what else did he get wrong?" Which is kind of inevitable in world-spanning TLs.

Just speaking for myself but my ideal TL has vast clouds of butterflies that the author tracks but then only mentions them when they impinge on the main subject of the TL.

Basically if you get a book about Norman southern Italy then what's going on in France, the Balkans and the rest of Italy mtter a huge deal and what the Normans do effects them but you don't get biographies of every Pope, French King and HRE/Byzentine Emperor which I is kind of what you'd get from a lot of AH writers if you had a Norman Italy TL write-up.

 

[SenatorChickpea]

And again- I raise the counterpart of Jonathan Edelstein's Malê Rising, arguably the finest timeline on the site. It's centered on West Africa, but one of the keys to the timeline's brilliance is the regular and well organised overviews of other regions of the world.

Lycaon Pictus, the timeline will seriously lose its charm if you give up the fantastic regular updates on the Mediterranean world, or Gran Colombia, or the goings on in Downing Street.

 

[Admiral Matt]

Protectorates are one thing, but that Orana chunk is a pretty ambitious move on the part of the British, isn't it?

Very curious what impact such a pan-European effort would have on Christian migration to North Africa. Not to mention whether those protectorates will last.

How are the Ottomans taking it all?