Being alive doesn't mean being in power. There are survivors from many a defunct dynasty walking the earth today.
So, there could be descendants from the Hittite royal family in Anatolia, Komneno, even as far back as the Pharoahs in Egypt etc?
Being alive doesn't mean being in power. There are survivors from many a defunct dynasty walking the earth today.
I agree the Turks charging out of the pass is unrealistic, but it was the only way i think of to lure them out at the time (although some sources for the battle say that the Turks were somewhat undisciplined, ignoring Kilij's orders at some point in the battle). Also i like the title, thanks.
Oh yeah, what do you think of the rest of the timeline, besides that little flaw?
The time line is promising,becareful with battles,it may not sound very important but you may find that certain actions may sound highly improbable.
What about the very powerful then Byzantine navy? it could have landed several thousand men,astride the line of communications of Kilij Arslan which would have forced the Seljuks to abandon the pass.In war,everything not in the line of battle,it is not in its place(Ardan dy Pick).
That was only an example,that you have to think all means available for an all round action.The Seljuks running like that is not probable,perhaps it could under a gross misunderstanding,but it is not in the odds;
catapelts firing flaming rocks are in the odds and could start a bombardment until light infantry followed by archers could make a probe for the hights as another example that would force the Turks to show their hand... etc
Otherwise follow the good work;odd points here and there are bound to crop up every now and then and we will talk again...keep up the good work.
I thought you would say that! don't you know that they were in power until 1918? seven hundred years in power...Being alive doesn't mean being in power. There are survivors from many a defunct dynasty walking the earth today.
Good point. Also, is there any detailed sources about Manuel's son, Alexius? As i can't seem to find anything about him.
Not really. This has about all we have to work on: http://www.roman-emperors.org/alexiicom.htm
Speaking for myself, "unpromising" is an understatement, but then, if Manuel lives longer than OTL (which is quite possible), he might do something about his son's education. But I doubt he'll be much of an administrator 9which the Empire sorely needs after Manuel).
Siege seems interesting, though the numbers may be off - I don't have any alternate ones to suggest but I'd definitely have more ladders and the like.
I think the Byzantine dead would not just be left where they fell though. That's the main thing I'd edit.
Thank you for the help on Alexius, it looks like i am going to have to improve on his character quite a bit, due to a lack of information.
I noted your concerns about ladder numbers. I have plans for the Rhomaios dead bodies later, so they will stay put for now. Anyhow, did you think the Seljuk Sultan would let the Rhomaios to keep Konya, or even leave alive?
If the Byzantines take Iconium (the original name of the city picked intentionally), the Seljuks aren't going to be in much of a position to dispute Roman ownership.
Also, 30 ladders for an army of 29,000? You'd have hundreds of ladders, methinks, if at all possible.
When the Byzantines leave Iconium with the bulk of the army, the Seljuks can take back the city with a larger force. Although it will be difficult, especially with the heavy Byzantine infantry fighting in hand to hand. Or they could starve it out.
The Seljuks don't have a second army just waiting to be used here. And depending on what happens, Kilij Arslan might be killed or captured here - and the succession promises to be something the Byzantines can exploit.
If they besiege it, the Byzantines will respond.
Sieges are usually over quickly in medieval times. Also by the time the Byzantines hear about it, they have to raise a new army, march back, retake it and then leave a bigger garrison and more supplies. Then it repeats itself until Byzantines destroy the leaders and crush the army somehow.
Sieges are usually over quickly?
What?
And the Byzantines don't need to raise a new army - they have a standing army, not a forty-days-of-feudal service army, remember?
As for destroying the leaders and crushing the army: Which the Byzantines kinda have done already.
When i said quickly, i meant in around 20-40 days. Fair enough about the Byzantines standing army, i forgot that. But by the time that news reaches Constantinople (about 10-20 days i think, depends on route used), the emperor has to gather the army (from where their stationed/garrisoned/whatever) and then march, which depending on size, route and speed, would probably take longer than usual, by which time the siege may be over, either by assault or starvation.
I will explain what happens with Kilij and the rest of the army in the next update (you think they are going to give up?), as it should be a lot clearer then.
1) That would be a very quick siege by medieval standards. Medieval sieges usually lasted months.
2) Gallipoli (to use the modern/Turkish name) to Iconium took Barbarossa (picked as an example of travel in this period), under assault by Turks and not well supported by the locals, less than six weeks. Properly garrisoned and supplied, Iconium should be able to hold out for more than two months against what the Turks can do to it after these defeats.
3) Killy doesn't have much choice. His army is badly mauled, his capital is in Byzantine hands, and the likelihood of his vassals (to use the best word I can think of) not seeing which way the wind is blowing is low - further weakening his position.
Tongera,
You speak about a"forced march" and then carry with them siege towers? and othe siege equipment? you may not feel it but it is a contradiction in terms;with this equipment the speed of the army will be about 3-4 klms a day and if the road is good,a snail's pace that would make the army a sitting duck!Then Ikonion will have all the time in the world to prepare for siege...
Byzantines should get to the Ikonion first,lay it under siege and then construct the towers on the site.That is usually the procedure when your aim is to arrive at your objective as fast as possible in a forced march.
1. I must be using different sources then. Maybe i am thinking about less than well supplied settlements.
2. Fair enough point, i will change it later.
3. Good point, i would have to rewrite a fair bit of my timeline then.