Thank you all, as always, for your latest responses to my update! And now, also as always, my thoughts on your thoughts...
Thank you for making my favorite sitcom central.
(I did like "Yes, Minister" enormously, too, to be sure.
)
The fun thing about
Soap is that (as this latest update indicates) I can use it to speak indirectly about the daytime soap operas, too. And indeed I will!
phx1138 said:
I'm unaware of romance comics being much affected by the CCA. I understand they helped kill off the superheroes, tho.
Romance comics were
considerably more risqué prior to the Comics Code, similar to the Pre-Code (Hays Code, that is) Hollywood films.
phx1138 said:
This would already have been happening, wouldn't it? As the usual half-hour drama was disappearing, too. (Tho I do recall "Adam-12" still being 30min into the '70s.)
No, I checked, and most of the soaps didn't make the transition until 1975 onward.
phx1138 said:
Huh. I had no idea. So you could say "Dallas" & "Dynasty", among others OTL, were throwbacks.
Remember, daytime soaps aired five days a week, whereas
primetime soaps did so just once. This prevents viewer exhaustion in a twofold manner: plots get only 20% of the total airtime,
and they have a
six-day downtime, as opposed to
two days maximum (even notwithstanding the summer hiatus, which is
much longer for primetime shows).
phx1138 said:
Don't recall this one, tho Tony Geary & Genie Francis (& their Luke & Laura romance) got big, big headlines...
So they did, but they came along
later... IOTL, anyway.
phx1138 said:
Really? I do (vaguely) recall the language being considered risqué.
Yes, which is why I said:
"But the meat of the show was in eschewing the euphemisms of the daytime soaps and referring to everything using proper terminology."
phx1138 said:
Looking at his WP page, this risks him losing the lead in "Splash".
(Unless Ron Howard offers it anyhow & they shoot on hiatus.)
I think you're missing out on the bigger picture here.
What about Bosom Buddies?!
phx1138 said:
Well, not the
next update, unless they plan on dressing Tom Hanks in a Dorothy Hamill costume, but certainly in future updates in general, yes
Not Confused, just Impressed
Thank you, Nigel!
NCW8 said:
I can't think of an equivalent British series to
Mary Hartman or
Soap. There were obviously individual sketches that parodied Soaps, but not an entire series devoted to it. The closest I can think of is
Acorn Antiques, which was a regular feature of
Victoria Woods As Seen On TV.
My impression is that the British tended to parody more "important" aspects of life and popular culture, even if they often did so in a very silly fashion.
Brainbin, your last few updates are as well written and informative as ever. The one thing I am slightly disappointed by is the continuing parallelism rather than true divergences so late after the POD (and its huge butterflies in the early 1970s). A few more truly divergent new shows (though with familiar faces since we aren't that far from the POD) would go a long way towards increasing the feeling of verisimilitude in the timeline. Don't get me wrong; I love what you have done here, and it is the author's prerogative as to how much and when and where to diverge, but I felt I owed you some feedback and that is what I was feeling. Keep up the good work!
I appreciate your candor, Glen, and I can promise you that more shows which were nonexistent IOTL
will make their appearance in the coming cycles. In fact, we're actually looking at the tail end of shows that will largely parallel those of OTL, for a number of reasons which will
also become clear in the coming cycles.
I've beat the drum on
Soap earlier in the thread, so obviously this was a highly enjoyable update for me. Great work as usual.
Thank you, Andrew!
Andrew T said:
I assume you're familiar with the
Comics Curmudgeon? I'm pretty sure that's the only other place in the universe where you can find a vibrant discussion of
Mary Worth.
Indeed I am, though I know it by the older title of "Josh Reads". (Unfortunately,
For Better or For Worse didn't start running until 1979.)
Andrew T said:
If you've discussed the status of the Equal Rights Amendment and the second-wave feminist movement, I apologize for having missed it. But it strikes me that this is a pretty blank slate: on the one hand, you have generally more liberal race relations; on the other hand, the "Mini-Boom" and economic conditions you discuss in footnote 1 are culturally conservative influences. Gender equality doesn't have to track racial equality, after all.
This is a very excellent point, and something worth thinking about in regards to sociopolitical discourse ITTL, though I should make clear that the Equal Rights Amendment is one of my
verboten topics, which shall never be discussed in any detail. But your analysis hammers home that this isn't a utopia, nor a dystopia... just a different world from OTL.
Andrew T said:
Actually, I wonder how social conservatism as a movement is faring; IOTL, it was Jimmy Carter who introduced born-again Christianity in the White House, only to discover that politically-minded evangelicals were using that enhanced visibility to build the alliance that would ultimately drive him from office in 1980. (The Moral Majority was
founded by Jerry Falwell in 1979 IOTL.)
Here, Reagan won overwhelmingly
without his own "third leg" of what he dubbed the "three-legged stool" of conservatism (social conservatives) -- or at least, without those folks organized as a political force. Reagan ITTL is likely to still be sympathetic with (and liked by) social conservatives, of course....
Now, I
will be addressing some of these suppositions in my updates about 1978 and 1980, so I obviously won't say anything about them now.
Andrew T said:
I always thought that the key to Soap was that, within its own universe -- and subject to the same 'laws' that governed soap operas -- it always took itself seriously, to the point where there were genuine moments of pathos (usually centered on the characters of Jessica and Mary).
I've always noticed this about parodies,
particularly genre parodies. I guess what they say is true: you tease because you love.
Andrew T said:
I had never heard the connection with Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman (and have never watched it); I wonder if naming the straightest straight-(wo)man on the show Mary was intended as a shout-out?
I didn't mean to infer a
direct connection between the two shows - simply pointing out the parallels. Though I obviously agree that Mary Campbell/Graham is the "straightest" character on
Soap (beyond the detached Benson, and perhaps Jodie/Joe), I don't think I would give Mary Hartman the same courtesy on her own show. In all likelihood, they went with Mary because it was a
ridiculously common name, as it has been ever since the beginning of the English language (for obvious reasons).
Andrew T said:
"You want me to get that?"
Having grown up on
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, it didn't occur to me until I became aware of
Soap how much of a transparent ripoff the character of Geoffrey was from Benson (with the fairly superficial twist of Geoffrey being English). Not that Joseph Marcell isn't a fine actor who did a great job with the material he was given, but I definitely think that Guillaume was simply
perfect (hence why I just
couldn't change the casting; I briefly considered giving Roscoe Lee Browne, his OTL replacement, the part initially).
Andrew T said:
Are there any other cast changes ITTL? I always thought Diana Canova (Corinne) was the weak link IOTL's Soap.
Virtually
everyone in the younger generation is gone, actually, save for Jay Johnson. Seeing as we're now over ten years past the POD, it's hard to contrive a way to keep most of them in place. Fortunately, the anchors of Damon, Mulligan, Mandan, and Helmond all remain (along with Guillaume, of course). As good an actor as Crystal is, I would consider Hanks to be a comparative gain, which would work to cancel out any net losses from the OTL actors being replaced by inferior TTL substitutes.
Andrew T said:
I think it was earlier on this thread, but in case it was elsewhere, I'll share it again
No, it
was on this thread. But hey, nobody's perfect
Andrew T said:
IOTL, Soap ran for four seasons, ending -- as with the previous three season finales -- with massive, unresolved cliffhangers. Of course, very few shows get to go off the air on their own terms....
What should also be noted is that, even today, said cliffhangers remain among the most notorious in all of television history!
I can accept Tom Baker not being the Fourth Doctor, but no American can't imagine anyone else other than Larry Hagman for J.R. Ewing. That's UNAMERICAN!!
Which doesn't hold much sway with me, considering that I am, in fact, not American
I suppose that the syndicated 1977 soap parody All That Glitters was butterflied away?
Yes, both because fewer syndication slots are available ITTL and because Lear has far less cachet to launch another show by that point.
No, not when the Television Show "Murphy Brown" was on in OTL, how long was FYI on the air *in universe* when Murphy came back from Alcoholics Anonymous? (the event that started the series as we saw it).
I'm not sure, having not seen
Murphy Brown for years (being so highly topical, it hasn't fared too well in recent syndication), and being young enough during first-run that its defining storyline, the feud with Dan Quayle, went over my head entirely; but I
believe that it had been on since
at least 1980, as that was when Murphy supposedly did
something (just
what, exactly, was never explained) at that year's Republican Presidential Convention.
Will butterflying "Taxi Driver" change the course of politics?
That's an
intriguing question, and one that bears careful analysis.
Orville_third said:
As for "Benson", how will it change ITTL? Will it be on the air? Will Benson still use the Heimlich maneuver? Will Downey and Endicott still be at each other's throats?
I'm afraid you're getting rather ahead of yourself in assuming that there's even going to
be a
Benson!
Two other things: does this butterfly away Jodie Foster's career?
No, Jodie Foster was an established child actress
long before
Taxi Driver, IOTL. (Her first IMDb credit is from 1969.)
Tom Hanks in the Billy Crystal role, eh?
Interesting.
At least he'll avoid the slasher movie He Knows You're Alone (which he apparently isn't proud of), although the slasher movie genre will be different TTL.
He'll also avoid
Mazes and Monsters (though role-playing games will
also be different ITTL), as
Soap will
definitely be a bigger hit ITTL than
Bosom Buddies was IOTL.
Unknown said:
Susan Anton on Three's Company? That's pretty good.
A fun fact: Susan Anton, Ann-Margaret, Morgan Fairchild, and Jaclyn Smith all starred in a Law and Order SVU episode called Bedtime. Smith played a female cop, while the first three played models for a mattress store owner (who they had all slept with, and the shots of the "mattress models" at a younger age are actually the three actresses when the latter were the ages of their characters).
Not only am I aware of that episode, it actually
influenced my casting decision, and Fairchild was my second choice for the part (as both she and Anton were famous for nothing in particular in the 1970s IOTL). I think I went with Anton because she looked more stereotypically 1970s than Fairchild did.
Unknown said:
All in all, good updates. Can't wait for the next one.
Oh, and Merry Christmas!!!
Thank you very much, and Merry Christmas to you as well! And as a matter of fact, speaking of updates, I'm hoping to have a very special gift for all of you...