To Say the Least if the Dallas Texans didn't Become the Baltimore Colts, Johnny Unitas might led his Texans from winning the 1958 NFL Championship Game.
Sports What Ifs.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
No knock on Doug Williams as he did a damn good job with the Bucs and, probably could have been retained if Bucs ownership hadn't been such tightwads when negotiating with a QB that took them to the playoffs 3 times in the five seasons he was with the team, three times in his four seasons at their starting QB, but while Williams was successful at Grambling, Moon was successful in a major program at Washington and even won a Rose Bowl.
The Seahawks were fools not to at least give him a shot. It's not like Jim Zorn had done anything to make him irreplaceable in the two years he'd been QB. In fact, the injury he suffered in '77 should have had the Seahawks looking for another QB 'just in case' in the '78 draft regardless.
Why they didn't give U Dub's graduating starting QB a shot, I don't know.
Especially in a draft that saw Williams go in the first round.
Moon had a great sense of self-awareness about what he could and couldn't do. He knew he could play quarterback. He also knew he just didn't have the tools to play any of the other positions NFL coaches wanted to try him at.
Warren Moon knew who and what he was and that's probably the biggest factor in him becoming the Hall of Famer he did.
I think Anderson would have ended up somewhere. The guy had talent and he would have ended up somewhere, if not drafted further down the board, then as an undrafted free agent.
Hell, if he's floating around the NFL when Bill Walsh takes over in San Francisco, he might end up the starter while Montana's breaking in.
THAT could be interesting.
49ers vs. Chargers in Super Bowl XVI?
Air Coryell vs. The West Coast Offense?
OTL, SB XVI was a classic, but that match up could have made for an even more exciting game. (It that's at all possible.)
You may be right on Anderson, but I wonder if Walsh's influence made him what he was. Dan Fouts said that Walsh had a major influence on him when Bill went to SD in 76 after Brown snubbed him.
Fouts said that Walsh re-built him as a QB from the ground up. I also think that Walsh had more to do with Montana being good than people realize.
How About Another NFL What If
What if the Baltimore Colts relocated to Phoenix, AZ in 1983?
What if the Oakland Raiders stayed in Oakland, CA in 1982?
What if the Houston Oilers didn't Relocated to Memphis, TN in 1996?
What if the Baltimore Colts relocated to Phoenix, AZ in 1983?
What if the Oakland Raiders stayed in Oakland, CA in 1982?
What if the Houston Oilers didn't Relocated to Memphis, TN in 1996?
FDW
Banned
The relocations of those three teams were something that had built up over several years. To prevent a move in those you have to go back and change a bunch of things.
Oh Really, Anyhow NFL Needs to Rewrite History, But Also
- What if the Tampa Bay Buccaneers decided to give Bo Jackson playing in the NFL in 1986?
- What if Carl Banks gets drafted to the New England Patriots in 1984?
1. The Bucs would have given him a chance. He skipped out on them. They lied to him. They told him that playing baseball at Auburn wasn't an NCAA violation while he was talking to them, but it turned out to be.
2. Banks and Tippett make a good duo, but I don't think that changes a whole lot. Now, if the Pats would have drafted Marino instead of Eason the year before, maybe we would be getting somewhere.
Good point.
That, and the Bucs didn't want Jackson to play baseball. They wanted him full time.
Reverse side of the coin?
The Yankees drafted Bo out of high school in the second round of the 1982 draft. Steinbrenner, of course, wanted him to be a baseball player and only a baseball player.
Sometimes I wonder if Bo could have given up football in '82, taken what probably would have been a very lucrative signing bonus and contract from the Yankees and played baseball only, using his signing bonus and salary from baseball to pursue his education during off seasons.
Then again, I'm a Yankees fan, so, the idea of a healthy Mattingly and healthy Bo Jackson, who'd focused solely on baseball after high school, hitting 3 and 4 in the Yankee line up by...86 or so, is rather tantalizing for me.
Pats draft Marino in '83...that could make for some interesting Pats teams right there, in 1983.
'83 Pats were 8-8 as they were.
If Marino gets to start like he did in Miami, only with the Pats instead, that could present some interesting butterflies in '83 (when the Pats had the #3 defense in the NFL but something like the #20 offense) and especially in 1984 and '85.
With Marino under center in Super Bowl XX, is a Pats upset a distinct possibility? Would a Marino driven Pats possibly go into SB XX as a pick 'em?
FDW
Banned
Well, in one of the N if L" episodes, Dave Dameshek points out that Dan Marino had the Bears number when they faced off against them in 1985, defeating them 38-24. Marino in New England might mean that the Patriots are favored in SBXX, assuming they get there.
Good point.
That, and the Bucs didn't want Jackson to play baseball. They wanted him full time.
Reverse side of the coin?
The Yankees drafted Bo out of high school in the second round of the 1982 draft. Steinbrenner, of course, wanted him to be a baseball player and only a baseball player.
Sometimes I wonder if Bo could have given up football in '82, taken what probably would have been a very lucrative signing bonus and contract from the Yankees and played baseball only, using his signing bonus and salary from baseball to pursue his education during off seasons.
Then again, I'm a Yankees fan, so, the idea of a healthy Mattingly and healthy Bo Jackson, who'd focused solely on baseball after high school, hitting 3 and 4 in the Yankee line up by...86 or so, is rather tantalizing for me.
Pats draft Marino in '83...that could make for some interesting Pats teams right there, in 1983.
'83 Pats were 8-8 as they were.
If Marino gets to start like he did in Miami, only with the Pats instead, that could present some interesting butterflies in '83 (when the Pats had the #3 defense in the NFL but something like the #20 offense) and especially in 1984 and '85.
With Marino under center in Super Bowl XX, is a Pats upset a distinct possibility? Would a Marino driven Pats possibly go into SB XX as a pick 'em?
Here's another one dealing with Bo Jackson:
What if Marcus Dupree goes to Texas instead of OU, and plays all four years like he is capable?
Him and Bo could have made for a sweet 1-2 punch at the top of the 86 draft.
If Dupree went to Texas and really was as good as they say he could have been, I have to figure the Bucs take Dupree instead, as it would eliminate the mess that negotiating with Bo brings.
Also, there's a pretty good chance Dupree might have been the best overall player available in the draft, thus making him a no-brainer for the Bucs front office.
Of course, if he really was as good as they say he could have been, the Bucs could have been sitting on one of two things: The best running back in the league OR a pick that could be swapped to any number of teams in a 'franchise builder' type of trade for picks and prospects.
Dupree could make some team that's 'just a running back away' a winner in the short run (wonder how sick the 49ers would have been with him in the late 80's and what kind of butterflies that might have caused...or if the Vikings made that trade, who do the Cowboys make 'The Herschel Walker Trade' with?) and built the Bucs into a contender in the long run.
Could be very interesting if the Bucs play it just right.
The Duluth Eskimos
The Duluth Eskimos began their history like many other NFL teams; situated in a smaller city, they struggled for a few years before passing away or moving to a larger community. In OTL, the Eskimos folded inn the late 1920s. But, what if ...
Let's say the the failing Eskimos decide to follow the example of the Green Bay Packers, and decide to open up a stock sale to the community, keeping the team permanently ion Duluth. In OTL, from the 1930s until 1961, Minnesota had no professional football team. In the ATL the Eskimos will fill this role.
Also, the NFL now has two community owned teams. Will this syaty a precedebt?
The Duluth Eskimos began their history like many other NFL teams; situated in a smaller city, they struggled for a few years before passing away or moving to a larger community. In OTL, the Eskimos folded inn the late 1920s. But, what if ...
Let's say the the failing Eskimos decide to follow the example of the Green Bay Packers, and decide to open up a stock sale to the community, keeping the team permanently ion Duluth. In OTL, from the 1930s until 1961, Minnesota had no professional football team. In the ATL the Eskimos will fill this role.
Also, the NFL now has two community owned teams. Will this syaty a precedebt?
After the Bucs take Dupree, the Falcons had the next pick. However, they did have Gerald Riggs at RB, and they had a lot of needs.
I printed up an article in SI from 4-28-86. It was the yearly Dr. Z Mock Draft column. Dr. Z wrote that the Bucs were thinking about trading the pick there for a while, but they wanted a mob of defensive players. Z also wrote that Dan Reeves and the Broncos tried to trade for the pick, but they didn't want to tear apart their whole defense to do so.
However, maybe the ATL would have been a little more flexible. The Broncos can trade for the #2 pick in 86, and give the Falcons their 87 and 88 #1's, an 87 fourth-rounder, and three players, like RB Gerald Willhite, WR Clint Sampson, and CB Randy Robbins (Willhite would have been a good backup to Riggs, and I think that Sampson and Robbins could start on that team because Floyd Dixon was their #2 WR, and they had Scott Case starting at CB. Case was a better fit at safety, where they had two rookies starting).
The Yankees drafted Bo out of high school in the second round of the 1982 draft. Steinbrenner, of course, wanted him to be a baseball player and only a baseball player.
Sometimes I wonder if Bo could have given up football in '82, taken what probably would have been a very lucrative signing bonus and contract from the Yankees and played baseball only, using his signing bonus and salary from baseball to pursue his education during off seasons.
Then again, I'm a Yankees fan, so, the idea of a healthy Mattingly and healthy Bo Jackson, who'd focused solely on baseball after high school, hitting 3 and 4 in the Yankee line up by...86 or so, is rather tantalizing for me.
Hard to predict what a Bo Jackson focusing solely on baseball since age 19 would have become. But doesn't mean we can't try.
IOTL in 2600 plate appearances he hit for a .250 average, with a .309 on base percentage, and a .474 slugging percentage. So he didn't hit the ball all that frequently, but when he did hit it it went far. And he was pretty much a total failure at controlling the strike zone - lots of strikeouts and very few walks.
Focusing solely on baseball, I'd bet his batting average would increase some. Lets be somewhat generous and say by 20 points. This will also raise his OBP. But his inability to control the strike zone probably won't change much, as that is a skill that players appear to either have or not have, and is seldom learned. With increased bat proficiency and his already legendary power, pitchers will throw to him more carefully, so I see him gaining maybe 10 walks more a season, with another 10 intentional walks a year (intentional walks was not something he got many of IOTL despite his power, cause pitchers knew they could get a guy with that low of an OBP out). And some of those hits from an improved batting average will be doubles and homers.
I forsee a typical Bo Jackson year ITTL as being .270 batting average, .340 on base percentage, and .515 slugging percentage. He'll probably get 25 - 40 steals a year for the first 10 years of his career. With his lowish OBP and high slugging, I see him typically batting 5th. So with a good offense around him, 90+ runs scored and 100+ runs batted in each year seems very doable. Probably a serious MVP candidate two or three times at his peak.
Despite his speed, he was never a good outfielder and played mostly left field (IOTL his career range factor [number of outs made] per 9 innings played in LF was lower than league average). This is not unusual, see Lou Brock or Tim Raines for examples. Maybe with more focus on baseball he improves his fielding to league average or better.
Because of his inability to see pitches and control the strike zone, when his bat speed starts slowing in his early to mid 30s, I predict his success at the plate will tank quickly and he's out of the league by age 35 or 36.
All in all, what would we be left with? An improved Joe Carter is my best guess. Thats a good to occasionally very good player (though fans would think more highly of him), but far from a great/Hall of Fame player.
Then it becomes a question of what the Falcons do with those first rounders. In 87, if all things remain the same, they have the #13 and #27 picks in the first round. They took Chris Miller at #13, OTL, but...with two first rounders to play with, do they try and trade up? If so, for who? The only QB taken before Miller was Super Bust Kelly Staufer (who I suppose they could, like the Cards, dump on the Seahawks in a 'What was Seattle thinking?!' trade like OTL) but there were better players to be had, depending where they pick and 2 first rounders might very well get them into the top 5.
Here's an intriguing possibility: They trade the two first rounders to Green Bay for the #4 pick and take Brent Fullwood, out of Auburn, to make up for that running back they didn't take in 1986. (Where, OTL, they took Tony Casillas...where does HE go, if the Broncos are taking either Bo or Dupree with the #2 pick?)
Without Fullwood, do we see Green Bay picking at #2 in 1989 (as OTL) and taking Barry Sanders?
Speaking of 1989, would Atlanta still be bad enough to end up with the #5 pick (and, subsequently, Deon Sanders) in 1988? That's to say, holding pat in the '87 and '88 drafts with their two first rounders.
In '88 they'd end up with the #1 and #25 or #26 pick. (which I'm getting conflicting reports on from pro-football reference.com and prosportstransactions on.) Any possibility they have a sudden lapse of sanity on the way to the podium and take Neil Smith with the #1 pick in '88 instead of Audray Bruce?
Lots of interesting possibilities and butterflies there.
Hmmm...possible Red Sox Killer in the five slot for the Yankees who, while much loved by the Yankee faithful, a solid, respected player by everyone else.
Somehow, I think he'd end up batting clean up in '89 though, as, after Mattingly, that line-up was a merry-go-round of 'Who's next?'. Then probably bats clean up after Winfield is traded in '90 and also hit there in '91 and '92 (unless the Yankees still 'Pay a lot for that muffler!' and sign Danny Tartabull during the '91-'92 offseason...) but he'll generate offense, regardless.
Which could be interesting in '92, as maybe he's the factor in causing some of those tough losses Melido Perez suffered OTL to turn into wins.
Still, sadly, leaves the Yankee faithful with Meli injuring his arm in '93 and never really fulfilling the promise he showed in '92. At least he'd potentially have that monster '92 season to hang his hat on, and we, the Yankee faithful, have more of the '92 season to find interesting.
If Bo ends up batting clean up from '89-'91, does Mattingly get the intentional pass more often for pitchers to specifically pitch to Bo, rather than risk a Mattingly hit? That could raise Donny Baseball's yearly BAs by knocking down his ABs a bit.
Healthy Mattingly + Bo Knows Baseball...and ONLY Baseball.
Thoughts?
Well Bo Knows Baseball as a Member of the Kansas City Royals, But I Also Add Another Question
How Does Darrell Green (CB) get Drafted by the Oakland Raiders in 1983?
Hoes Does Todd Blackledge (QB) get drafted to the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1983?
How Does Darrell Green (CB) get Drafted by the Oakland Raiders in 1983?
Hoes Does Todd Blackledge (QB) get drafted to the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1983?
As a Baltimorean, here are a few what-ifs that I've been kicking around in my head lately. What are your thoughts?
-The Maryland legislature approves creation of the "Baltodome;" a multi-use sporting complex that would be located in Camden Yards. This would have obvious effects on the Baltimore Colts, but it would also impact the possibility of a hockey or basketball team coming to town.
-John Elways agrees to play for the Colts (and they stay in Baltimore). These are two seperate scenarios, and it's more focused on how well Elway would play for the Colts franchise.
-Jason Garrett decides to coach the Ravens. In 2008, Garrett was offered the head coaching job before turning it down. John Harbaugh was Baltimore's second choice while Garrett went back to Dallas. The rest is history. But what if Garrett decided to coach for one of the best run organizations in the league, with a chance to groom a rookie qb (who would end up being Flacco) from the start, and have a great deal more independence than he did in Dallas? This question also brings into question what would happen with the Cowboys, future NFL drafts, and therefore the NFL as it is. I've always been interested in making this into a short timeline.
P.S.: Here's a non-Baltimore timeline with big potential: No "tuck-rule?"
-The Maryland legislature approves creation of the "Baltodome;" a multi-use sporting complex that would be located in Camden Yards. This would have obvious effects on the Baltimore Colts, but it would also impact the possibility of a hockey or basketball team coming to town.
-John Elways agrees to play for the Colts (and they stay in Baltimore). These are two seperate scenarios, and it's more focused on how well Elway would play for the Colts franchise.
-Jason Garrett decides to coach the Ravens. In 2008, Garrett was offered the head coaching job before turning it down. John Harbaugh was Baltimore's second choice while Garrett went back to Dallas. The rest is history. But what if Garrett decided to coach for one of the best run organizations in the league, with a chance to groom a rookie qb (who would end up being Flacco) from the start, and have a great deal more independence than he did in Dallas? This question also brings into question what would happen with the Cowboys, future NFL drafts, and therefore the NFL as it is. I've always been interested in making this into a short timeline.
P.S.: Here's a non-Baltimore timeline with big potential: No "tuck-rule?"
Cowboys fan here and let me tell you about Garrett: The man coaches with the passion of a wet sponge and it wouldn't mean a damn how well run the Ravens are as an organization, the guy couldn't inspire a kleptomaniac to steal from an open cash register full of fifties and hundreds.
Just be thankful you got the coach you did and don't ponder a scenario that would just leave you bitter and resentful of the organization for ever handing over a well run and built team to such a putz.
Cowboys fans are supposed to ponder how much better the Cowboys would be without Jerkoff Jerry micro-managing the team into a sick joke and with a real coach on the sidelines.
Think about this, before you start pining for The Garrot: He ENJOYS having a control freak of an owner running the team. If he didn't, he'd have quit by now. He hasn't. Do the math.
SonOfFreedom
Banned
The Browns stay in Cleveland and Baltimore is still without a team since the Colts and their history all go to Indy. Art gets an expansion team in LA. Indy is also not in the AFC South. Instead its in the AFC Midwest.
AFC East (Ravenless)
New England
New York/New Jersey
Buffalo
Cleveland
AFC Midwest (Ravenless)
Indianapolis
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Kansas City
AFC South (Ravenless)
Jacksonville
Miami
Houston
Nashville Express
AFC West (Ravenless)
Denver
Oakland
San Diego
LA Titans
AFC East (Ravenless)
New England
New York/New Jersey
Buffalo
Cleveland
AFC Midwest (Ravenless)
Indianapolis
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Kansas City
AFC South (Ravenless)
Jacksonville
Miami
Houston
Nashville Express
AFC West (Ravenless)
Denver
Oakland
San Diego
LA Titans
Oh I'm very happy to have Harbaugh. But it's always interesting to ponder an alternative, even if it would have been incredibly frustrating.