Dont' forget, though, the runner was still on 2nd. So, he gets to third, and it's 1st adn 3rd with 2 outs...for who? (Yeah, I know, "I didn't know Who played for the Mets.
)Sports What Ifs.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Dont' forget, though, the runner was still on 2nd. So, he gets to third, and it's 1st adn 3rd with 2 outs...for who? (Yeah, I know, "I didn't know Who played for the Mets.
)clintonforever
Banned
How about Dan Marino deciding in 1990 to leave Miami and go to a Super Bowl contender like Dallas, DC or Buffalo.
What kept him in Miami his entire career is still foggy to me...
What kept him in Miami his entire career is still foggy to me...
Probably along the lines of a future sports what if (maybe in 10 years)...
1. NFL goes to an 18 game schedule/20 week season(introducing the second bye, like what was in place in the '93 season)
2. NFL expands to 36 teams(goes back to three divisions in conference). Toronto, San Antonio, LA(two teams) all get teams.
3. NFL abolishes the Pro Bowl and replaces with a skills competition.
1. NFL goes to an 18 game schedule/20 week season(introducing the second bye, like what was in place in the '93 season)
2. NFL expands to 36 teams(goes back to three divisions in conference). Toronto, San Antonio, LA(two teams) all get teams.
3. NFL abolishes the Pro Bowl and replaces with a skills competition.
Read Kramers instant replay. When discussing the run-up to the 1968 Afl-NFL Champoinship game as it was then known (leading some to say the Packers never won a SuperBowl until the Favre era, mostly Bears fans) he remarks on just how much the execution of the Raiders was versus the Chiefs. He may not say it as many words but basically he calls the Chiefs
"Stumblebums". Also the Chiefs had Mike Garret, a back while not quite Sayers equal was pretty damn good. For all the good it did them. Individually the Chiefs did not look bad against Green Bay. But as a "team" it was no contest.
Sending him off butterflys away his second goal made after going slalom through the english defense and even more important, Argentina looses their best offensive player and motor on the midfield. England got Lineker.
Whoever wins that quaterfinal is going up against Belgium in the semifinal and i dont see England loose that game and we get a repeat of the 1966 final.
And Germany was often described as Rummenigge and 10 robots, it was not a great German side by any means that made that final.
Its easy to see England winning the final.
As good a player as Maradona was , he was also a dirty druggy cheating little ****
Well Real Madrid would not have won the first 5 European Cups for starters.
If United had not won the European Cup that year they would have won it the next.
From there I could imagine United winning the European Cup at least 3 more times in the 60's ...can you imagine Edwards-Law-Charlton and Best in the same team, most teams played United in the 60's expecting to lose and that was without the great Duncan Edwards.
I can also see George Best not flushing his career and life down the toilet, the man got sucked into the party life because he realised he was the best in a great team at an early age...with Edwards there Best would not have been the number one player he'd have someone to chase down (talent wise) I could see Best being a hell of a lot more focused on football rather than drinking with Edwards in the team.
As for England they sure would not have drawn their 3 group games (which included eventual champs Brazil ) They would have topped that group, beaten Wales, beaten France and beaten Sweden to win the 1958 World cup
1962 World cup would have been interesting England would have topped their group and avoided Brazil til the final. With Edwards at his peak along with Charlton ,Greaves et al you would struggle to bet against the English.
1966 Goes without saying England would win as they did in otl except Duncan Edwards would have lifted the cup and Bobby Moore would be a squad player
1970 in OTL the 1970 Brazil side is considered the greatest national team ever yet they only just beat an aging England side , with Edwards playing its possible that England would have topped the group so instead of playing weak SouthAmerican sides to make the final the Brazilians would have faced the Germans in the first knockout round. The winner of that game would have faced England in the final.....
Many people who really know their football ,understand it, rate Edwards as the best player ever, Pele and Maradona are rightly considered great (and they achieve more obviously) but Edwards could do all that they could and more, he was the complete player...no weakness in his game at all...none , he was world class in every outfield position. If he had ,had a full career there would be no doubt in anyones mind who was the greatest player to grace the game.
If Munich had never happened that United side would have swept all before them for another 12 years at least...and England ...no doubt in my mind England would have won the World Cup 3 times...maybe 4 times.
And yes I'm a United fan but much of what I know of Edwards and the Busby Babes came from my Liverpool supporting father who watched Edwards play many time and felt Duncan Edwards was beyond comparison.
RIP Babes never forgotten .
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Posting in another thread made me think of some more. How about no team movements.
NFL
-Rams stay in Cleveland. Redskins stay in Boston.
NBA
-Kings stay in Cincinnati. Lakers stay in Minnesota. Clippers stay in Buffalo.
NHL
-The whole league doesn't move to the US.
NFL
-Rams stay in Cleveland. Redskins stay in Boston.
NBA
-Kings stay in Cincinnati. Lakers stay in Minnesota. Clippers stay in Buffalo.
NHL
-The whole league doesn't move to the US.
And Man U without the crash wouldnt be UNITED to all the world. Would they without the crash have to go into the wilderness for almost 20 years before their first PL win? Would they had hired sir Alex if they were still winning?
Butterfly away Fergusson and you butterfly away Beckhamania for sure
Two for Mickey Mantle:
1. DiMaggio doesn't call him off the flyball to the gap in game one of the '51 Series. Mantle fields the ball, rather than having to pull up quickly to avoid colliding with DiMaggio, doesn't catch his spikes in the drain and doesn't blow out his knee.
2. Mantle takes better care of himself (ie; doesn't drink as much, gets his leg checked out before the infection sets in in '61, etc...) and as a result, doesn't play all those games hung over or hurt.
Does he break Ruth's single season HR record in '56? He hit 52 in 1956, his Triple Crown year and 54 in '61, when he missed the final stretch of the season due to an infection in his leg.
Speaking of Triple Crowns, how many does a healthy Mantle rack up?
How many career homers does Mantle hit with a prolonged period of productive play and (relatively) clean living?
800?
850?
More?
Peter Gammons once said the two most tragic wastes of talent in the history of baseball were Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. As tragic as those two wasted their talents, Mantle was probably worst of all, because he put up HOF numbers while playing the lion's share of his career hung over.
With a little clean living, (and a little bit of humillity on Joe D's part in '51) Mick probably would have set steroidproof records still standing today.
1. DiMaggio doesn't call him off the flyball to the gap in game one of the '51 Series. Mantle fields the ball, rather than having to pull up quickly to avoid colliding with DiMaggio, doesn't catch his spikes in the drain and doesn't blow out his knee.
2. Mantle takes better care of himself (ie; doesn't drink as much, gets his leg checked out before the infection sets in in '61, etc...) and as a result, doesn't play all those games hung over or hurt.
Does he break Ruth's single season HR record in '56? He hit 52 in 1956, his Triple Crown year and 54 in '61, when he missed the final stretch of the season due to an infection in his leg.
Speaking of Triple Crowns, how many does a healthy Mantle rack up?
How many career homers does Mantle hit with a prolonged period of productive play and (relatively) clean living?
800?
850?
More?
Peter Gammons once said the two most tragic wastes of talent in the history of baseball were Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. As tragic as those two wasted their talents, Mantle was probably worst of all, because he put up HOF numbers while playing the lion's share of his career hung over.
With a little clean living, (and a little bit of humillity on Joe D's part in '51) Mick probably would have set steroidproof records still standing today.
Mantle
Here is another Mickey one: What if he went to the Cardinal organization instead?I heard somewhere that he almost did. He probably would have lived more cleanly out of respect for Stan Musial, who he looked up to, and the Cardinals may have won some more WS titles by the 60's.
Here are a few more WI's for sports:
1. What if the Dodgers would have kept Roberto Clemente in the 50's instead of letting him get away to the Pirates?
2. What if the great GM Joe Thomas, who built the Vikings for Bud Grant, the Dolphins for Don Shula, and rebuilt the Colts into 3-time AFC East champs in the mid-70's, decided to take the GM job with the Falcons in 1977 instead of taking the 49er GM job?
3. What if Seattle would have gone through with their Puget Sound stadium plan in the early-mid 60's?
Here is another Mickey one: What if he went to the Cardinal organization instead?I heard somewhere that he almost did. He probably would have lived more cleanly out of respect for Stan Musial, who he looked up to, and the Cardinals may have won some more WS titles by the 60's.
Here are a few more WI's for sports:
1. What if the Dodgers would have kept Roberto Clemente in the 50's instead of letting him get away to the Pirates?
2. What if the great GM Joe Thomas, who built the Vikings for Bud Grant, the Dolphins for Don Shula, and rebuilt the Colts into 3-time AFC East champs in the mid-70's, decided to take the GM job with the Falcons in 1977 instead of taking the 49er GM job?
3. What if Seattle would have gone through with their Puget Sound stadium plan in the early-mid 60's?
Suggestions, complete with names fo the TL's!
*****
Murderer's Row - The Yankees beat the Diamondbacks in the 2001. Steinbrenner eases his control back just a bit, and the Yankees become the team of the 00's. Boston, in an effort to compete, does everything it takes to sign A-Rod, but still choke in the post-season, and 2004/2007 never happen. The Cardinals probably take the 2004 Series as a result as well.
Throw Down - Kordell Stewart doesn't choke in the 2001 AFC championship game, possibly strangling the Patriots dynasty in the cradle. Tommy Maddox's 2002 season gets butterfiled away, as well as the 2003 6-10 record as the Steelers don't go pass-heavy as a result of Maddox's success. Carson Palmer doesn't get injured in the 2005/2006 playoffs as a result, and the AFC North becomes a three-way slugfest between the Steelers, Bengals, and Ravens.
Out at Home - Barry Bonds throws out Sid Bream in the 1992 NLCS. The Pirates decide to resign Bonds over Bonilla as a result. Steroids and home runs get butterflied, but Bonds has a solid career in the Steel City.
Celtic Pride - Reggie Lewis and Len Bias, along with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, humble the Lakers and go against the Chicago Bulls, and Jordan/Pippen, for Eastern Conference supremacy. Add in the Pistons and Cavs and the late 80's/early 90's get a lot more interesting...
In Black Pinstripes - The Yankees break the color barrier and sign Jackie Robinson.
The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny - LaTroy Hawkins doesn't blow a save against the New York Mets down the stretch, and the Cubs make the 2004 post-season as a Wild Card. The Cubs beat the Braves and the Cardinals, the Red Sox beat the Angels and the Yankees, and the stage is set for Cubs/Sox, 2004 World Series, and someone's breaking the Curse.
*****
Murderer's Row - The Yankees beat the Diamondbacks in the 2001. Steinbrenner eases his control back just a bit, and the Yankees become the team of the 00's. Boston, in an effort to compete, does everything it takes to sign A-Rod, but still choke in the post-season, and 2004/2007 never happen. The Cardinals probably take the 2004 Series as a result as well.
Throw Down - Kordell Stewart doesn't choke in the 2001 AFC championship game, possibly strangling the Patriots dynasty in the cradle. Tommy Maddox's 2002 season gets butterfiled away, as well as the 2003 6-10 record as the Steelers don't go pass-heavy as a result of Maddox's success. Carson Palmer doesn't get injured in the 2005/2006 playoffs as a result, and the AFC North becomes a three-way slugfest between the Steelers, Bengals, and Ravens.
Out at Home - Barry Bonds throws out Sid Bream in the 1992 NLCS. The Pirates decide to resign Bonds over Bonilla as a result. Steroids and home runs get butterflied, but Bonds has a solid career in the Steel City.
Celtic Pride - Reggie Lewis and Len Bias, along with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, humble the Lakers and go against the Chicago Bulls, and Jordan/Pippen, for Eastern Conference supremacy. Add in the Pistons and Cavs and the late 80's/early 90's get a lot more interesting...
In Black Pinstripes - The Yankees break the color barrier and sign Jackie Robinson.
The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny - LaTroy Hawkins doesn't blow a save against the New York Mets down the stretch, and the Cubs make the 2004 post-season as a Wild Card. The Cubs beat the Braves and the Cardinals, the Red Sox beat the Angels and the Yankees, and the stage is set for Cubs/Sox, 2004 World Series, and someone's breaking the Curse.
As a lifelong Yankee fan, I shudder at the idea of Mick playing elsewhere, but if Stan could have had that effect on him, then it it would be worth it just to see him set the steroidproof records AND live a longer healthier life.
1. Shudder to think of how nasty the Dodgers would have been in the late 50's through the 60's. Put Clemente in the three spot in the line up and that's team that's going to score some runs. Put him in right field and that's an arm nobody tries to take two off of. Scary teams.
2. If Thomas takes hires Bill Walsh and they draft like they did with the 49ers (Montana, Lott, Clark, Rice) then I suppose you get a killer Falcons dynasty in the 80's rather than a Niners dynasty.
3. I think they get snubbed by the NFL but wind up in joining the AFL along with the Dolphins in '66.
This could have some interesting butterflies of it's own, as the AFL at the time of the merger would have 11 teams (after Cinci joins in '68) rather than 10 and therefore, only TWO NFL franchises move to the AFC.
But then, what if the AFL decides after expanding by two in '66, they have to expand by two in '68 to keep things even?
Do they possibly pluck New Orleans from the NFL?
In that case, with 12 AFL teams and 15 NFL teams, how does the merger go down? One NFL team to the AFC and the next expansion club automatically goes to the AFL?
Which ones stay and who goes?
Does Baltimore stay? In that case, who goes to Super Bowl V from the NFC to face Oakland (who Baltimore beat in the AFC Championship OTL): Dallas or Baltimore?
What if Pittsburgh stays? They'd forge a fast rivalry with the Vikings in the NFC Central and play at least a couple NFC Championship games against Dallas. The rivalries would be epic. How about Oakland and Pittsburgh slugging it out in Super Bowl's IX and X?
Pittsburg stays in the NFC, the butterflies are MASSIVE.
The Browns...doesn't really effect anything, really.
A couple of NZ / Australian ones...
* The Canberra Raiders (Rugby League) not only lose the 1989 Grand Final to Balmain, but are found to have breached the salary cap, and are forced by the league to offload many star players before the 1990 season kicks off
* The Auckland rugby team lose the Ranfurly Shield circa 1988. (ie no long, boring reign as a dominant rugby power - so the public will be less inclined to take an interest in Australian Rugby League in the early '90s)
* New Zealand Cricket team win the semi-final against Pakistan in 1992, then go on to win the final of the Cricket World Cup against England.
* Superleague (Australia) manages to grab the St George & Newcastle Clubs from the ARL to join it's rebel Rugby League competition.
* Kerry Packer's "World Rugby Competition" manages to snare all the best Rugby players in the Southern Hemisphere, and gets underway... (in OTL the players backed out of the rebel competition, and it folded before a ball was kicked).
* The Canberra Raiders (Rugby League) not only lose the 1989 Grand Final to Balmain, but are found to have breached the salary cap, and are forced by the league to offload many star players before the 1990 season kicks off
* The Auckland rugby team lose the Ranfurly Shield circa 1988. (ie no long, boring reign as a dominant rugby power - so the public will be less inclined to take an interest in Australian Rugby League in the early '90s)
* New Zealand Cricket team win the semi-final against Pakistan in 1992, then go on to win the final of the Cricket World Cup against England.
* Superleague (Australia) manages to grab the St George & Newcastle Clubs from the ARL to join it's rebel Rugby League competition.
* Kerry Packer's "World Rugby Competition" manages to snare all the best Rugby players in the Southern Hemisphere, and gets underway... (in OTL the players backed out of the rebel competition, and it folded before a ball was kicked).
WI Charlie Dressen removed Don Newcombe in the last game of the payoffs at the Polo grounds in the 7th inning and put in Ralph Branca to pitch the 7th and 8th and put in another pitcher in the ninth?Also Dressen has the Dodger infield at third and first-Cox and Hodges play down the lines off the bases for a hit.What happens next?Forgot-Fred Merkle's base running booboo which cost his team the pennant.What if he did what he was supposed to do and NOT run off the field assuming the game was over?
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It's been a long while then I didn't posted here
Dave Keon, hockey player for the Toronto Maple Leafs, moved to the WHA with the Minessota Fighting Saints, but what if instead he followed Norm Ullman to the Edmonton Oilers?
-what if Montreal Canadiens drafted Marcel Dionne instead of Guy Lafleur?
-what if Wayne Gretzky was traded to another club then the LA Kings instead?
Dave Keon, hockey player for the Toronto Maple Leafs, moved to the WHA with the Minessota Fighting Saints, but what if instead he followed Norm Ullman to the Edmonton Oilers?
-what if Montreal Canadiens drafted Marcel Dionne instead of Guy Lafleur?
-what if Wayne Gretzky was traded to another club then the LA Kings instead?
Bonilla was already gone. He signed with the Mets after the 1991 season. It was Andy Van Slyke that the Pirates kept -- and he promptly got hurt and lost almost all his value.
Bonds
The Pirates made a good decision to get rid of Bonilla. He was an underachieving hothead. Speaking of those Pirate teams, here is another WI:
What if the Pirates would have listened to a writer in the Pittsburgh Press in late 1990 when that writer wrote a column saying that they should trade Bonds now because his value will never be higher? For example, a good trade would have been trading Bonds to Atlanta for David Justice and Steve Avery.
The Pirates made a good decision to get rid of Bonilla. He was an underachieving hothead. Speaking of those Pirate teams, here is another WI:
What if the Pirates would have listened to a writer in the Pittsburgh Press in late 1990 when that writer wrote a column saying that they should trade Bonds now because his value will never be higher? For example, a good trade would have been trading Bonds to Atlanta for David Justice and Steve Avery.