Spain's Worthwhile American Possessions

[PuffyClouds]

Not considering Mexico, what possessions in America would it have been to Spain's advantage, and that territory's advantage, to maintain their control in?

Edit
How does Spain maintain their control in these territories?
How does Spain make continued administration beneficial to its American possessions?

 

[Sevarics]

Not considerig Mexico, what possessions in America would it have been to Spain's advantage, and that territory's advantage, to maintain their control in?

Anything with oil and presumably Panama for a future canal site

 

[dandan_noodles]

Not considerig Mexico, what possessions in America would it have been to Spain's advantage, and that territory's advantage, to maintain their control in?

Potosi in Bolivia is still producing silver and tin to this day; that might be worth hanging onto.

 

[Lenwe]

Cuba:Is a big Island an With a excelent position to do an interdiction on all The caribbean, Is big enough yo not be easily conquered, and have important depósits of minerals

Colombia : big gold depósits
Perú(both bajo Perú and Alto Perú) big gold,Silver and mineral deposits, With a big population that áre really loyal

 

[Herman Gigglethorpe]

Anything with oil and presumably Panama for a future canal site

If Spain maintains its colonies long enough for oil to become a valuable resource, then it will be interested in Venezuela.

EDIT: There was a Tierra del Fuego gold rush later in the 19th century, but I doubt that Spain held it at the time of the independence wars.

 

[Tonifranz]

Edit
How does Spain maintain their control in these territories?

How does it maintain control?

The mainland must not be invaded by Napoleon and it must remain at peace with Britain.

That is all.

Before the Peninsular War, Spain never had problems maintaining control of its American possessions. It was only after Napoleon invaded that problems started arising.

 

[PuffyClouds]

How does it maintain control?

The mainland must not be invaded by Napoleon and it must remain at peace with Britain.

That is all.

Before the Peninsular War, Spain never had problems maintaining control of its American possessions. It was only after Napoleon invaded that problems started arising.

I don't think Spain could have maintained control over Cuba for much longer than it had, do you?

 

[GeographyDude]

and even though it’s the seventh level of hell, I guess someone should mention sugar plantations?

 

[Lenwe]

How does it maintain control?

The mainland must not be invaded by Napoleon and it must remain at peace with Britain.

That is all.

Before the Peninsular War, Spain never had problems maintaining control of its American possessions. It was only after Napoleon invaded that problems started arising.

That is an absurd oversimplification, yeah Sure the Napoleon invasion over Spain kick start a wave of general Revolutions and self government "juntas" on all the spanish territories, but that is far from the only motive or cause.

There was a lot of discontent and revolt from the American Criollos for the lack of Political power and say in the government of their lands and the Chronic corruption of the Spanish peninsulares in charge of the government.

There was and independent movement group based in London la so called "Logia Gran Reunión Americana" Funded and patronized By Francisco de Miranda long before Napoleon was a factor in the European politic, that was fundamental to form the independent thought to O´higgins and San Martin(chilean and Argentinean independent fathers), Bolivar as also being Venezuelan was also influenced by the Miranda tough, and all this was formed in the 1798 in the latest.

sooner or later an independence wave and revolution will happen in the Spanish America

 

[Lenwe]

I was thinking and the only parts of the American Spanish´s Possessions that was not worth the hassle to Maintain was the actual Argentina, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay, plus some of the Caribbean islands, as these possessions where a money sink, in Chile the Arauco war in Argentina and Uruguay the English incursions and Paraguay in how inaccessible the place was.

 

[PuffyClouds]

and even though it’s the seventh level of hell, I guess someone should mention sugar plantations?

Well, can they be good for the people there? Or at least better than what developed OTL.

 

[GeographyDude]

. . Or at least better than what developed OTL.

Time and again, the colonial powers bought off the local elites

We'd almost have to look for the exceptions, which are probably there.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

The Viceroyalty of Peru and the Capitan Generalcy of Cuba would be the easiest to control and provide the most easiest source of funds for the crown to use.

But each colony could be turned into an economic powerhouse given time, investment, settlement, and planning.

 

[PuffyClouds]

@GeographyDude True true! Do you think there is a plausible way for Spain to turn administration of those localities into something beneficial for the locals?

 

[GeographyDude]

. . . something beneficial for the locals?

There could be a Spanish colonial governor who doesn't want the local Spanish military to grow in power, from jealousy if nothing else. This governor sees the longer game, that the terrible-condition slavery of sugar plantations will lead to rebellions, which the military will probably successfully put down, but the military will grow in power.

And I invite you and other AH members to share other ideas!

 

[Deleted member 67076]

@GeographyDude True true! Do you think there is a plausible way for Spain to turn administration of those localities into something beneficial for the locals?

Institute the 1776 Ordinance of Free Trade earlier. The Bourbons were moving to removing the various trade monopolies and specific ports of trade that seriously hampered development in the colonies. They also let the French trade with the Spanish colonies, providing another market for their goods. By creating basically a massive free trade zone the colonies were able to lessen smuggling and encourage investment in themselves rather than depending entirely on the metropole.

So, doing this process earlier in the century is going to have major knock off effects in promoting local industry, lessening smuggling, encouraging immigration, and weakening efforts at piracy.

 

[Tonifranz]

I don't think Spain could have maintained control over Cuba for much longer than it had, do you?

Cuba only revolted after it lost all it's other American possessions.

In a world where because of the absence Napoleon's invasion, the other American possessions won't be lost, then yes, I could say that it would certainly butterfly the Cuban revolt as we know it, and and may even extend Spain's hold on it.

 

[Tonifranz]

That is an absurd oversimplification, yeah Sure the Napoleon invasion over Spain kick start a wave of general Revolutions and self government "juntas" on all the spanish territories, but that is far from the only motive or cause.

There was a lot of discontent and revolt from the American Criollos for the lack of Political power and say in the government of their lands and the Chronic corruption of the Spanish peninsulares in charge of the government.

There was and independent movement group based in London la so called "Logia Gran Reunión Americana" Funded and patronized By Francisco de Miranda long before Napoleon was a factor in the European politic, that was fundamental to form the independent thought to O´higgins and San Martin(chilean and Argentinean independent fathers), Bolivar as also being Venezuelan was also influenced by the Miranda tough, and all this was formed in the 1798 in the latest.

sooner or later an independence wave and revolution will happen in the Spanish America

Perhaps you're right. But it was Napoleon's invasion that specifically led to independence. Sure, there are the pieces in place that could lead to independence, but without something to mould those pieces together into something that could kick out Spain, then it won't lead to independence.

Sure, there was all those things you mentioned as early as 1798, but it required the invasion of Napoleon for those things that you mentioned to actually lead to independence. All those things needed something, and that something was the invasion of Spain, the juntas, etc.

If that is avoided, I can't see how those who wanted independence could succeed that early. In a world where the Spanish mainland's government's legitimacy is beyond question, where there is no question in Mexico and in South America about who the true Spanish king is, where there is no struggle between Spanish liberals and reactionaries, etc, I can't imagine the Spanish colonies throwing out Spain like they did in OTL.

If there was a widespread revolt in Spanish America that succeeded before 1808, then I might change my mind.

 

[Lenwe]

Perhaps you're right. But it was Napoleon's invasion that specifically led to independence. Sure, there are the pieces in place that could lead to independence, but without something to mould those pieces together into something that could kick out Spain, then it won't lead to independence.

Sure, there was all those things you mentioned as early as 1798, but it required the invasion of Napoleon for those things that you mentioned to actually lead to independence. All those things needed something, and that something was the invasion of Spain, the juntas, etc.

If that is avoided, I can't see how those who wanted independence could succeed that early. In a world where the Spanish mainland's government's legitimacy is beyond question, where there is no question in Mexico and in South America about who the true Spanish king is, where there is no struggle between Spanish liberals and reactionaries, etc, I can't imagine the Spanish colonies throwing out Spain like they did in OTL.

If there was a widespread revolt in Spanish America that succeeded before 1808, then I might change my mind.

By that Logic, We could Argue that the only Reason that the USA war of independence Happened is because the English Raised the Taxes,and if the English Crown will not have raised the Taxes, the Independence movement in the USA will never form as they lack the rallying point to come together

 

[Tonifranz]

By that Logic, We could Argue that the only Reason that the USA war of independence Happened is because the English Raised the Taxes,and if the English Crown will not have raised the Taxes, the Independence movement in the USA will never form as they lack the rallying point to come together

Yes. Actually, I could even argue that it was the reaction of Parliament to the Boston Tea Party that actually led to the Independence.

Sure, there are differences. But it would not lead to outright war without the Stamp Tax, the Tea Tax, the Intolerable Acts, etc...

Canada and Australia, for example, did not revolt and kick out the British by force of arms, despite differences between it and the mother country.