Aye also will probably put De’Gauls back up even more now that I think about it.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
Derek Pullem
Donor
Counter would be that UK successes have be mostly (but not entirely) against Italian opposition. After all what difference would two short German divisions make to the Italians (we know from OTL - a lot - but the view ITTL might be less charitable)
They pulled of a very effective fighting withdrawal against the Germans in Greece.
12 November 1941. Libya. Operation Crusader, Day 11.
allanpcameron
Donor
12 November 1941. Libya. Operation Crusader, Day 11.
Lieutenant Peter Smith had to be shaken awake so that his gunner, John Twist could pass him his hot sweet tea. The previous day had been the most exciting, terrifying day of their lives. That explained Twist’s question, “Hope its another day like yesterday?” Smith felt himself shiver as he emerged from under his blanket, it had been a cold night. The shivering he’d been doing the night before was trying to work the adrenaline out of his system.
Private Wilson, the loader in Adsum, had outdone himself the day before, and was smiling still. Smith remembered the way in which the whole crew had worked together in such harmony. Bill Jones had kept the tank moving, with short halts to let Twist fire accurately. Smith had called out the targets, Twist laid on and Wilson loaded. They’d fired off every single shell they carried, ninety-five casings had been thrown out of the hull after the battle.
There was some debate around the troop the night before about how many Italian tanks each tank crew had brewed up. Smith wasn’t entirely sure, the whole day was just a kaleidoscope of memories. He’d sat with the Squadron intelligence officer and tried to make sense of it all. Twist and Wilson were in such a fine display of teamwork, that when Twist responded to his designation of a target, he shouted “On!” Jones would halt, and almost immediately Twist followed with “Away!” When Wilson said “Up!”, Twist would fire again “Away!”, “Up!” “Away!” “Up!”. Three shots into the target, then Jones would move. If Smith was happy that the target was destroyed, he would call out another, and the whole process would start again.
Coming on to the Italian tank regiment had started off like a training exercise back in Blighty. Having caught them in the flank, the first few targets were simple shots crossing in front of the tank. Once the Italians were aware of the danger, they turned towards the British tanks and tried to close the distance, so that their guns would be able to penetrate the Valiant’s armour. By the end of the battle, it felt like they were in engaged in a knife-fight. Adsum had taken four hits, all of which had bounced off, but the last had caused some fragments of spalling which had given Jones a terrible fright and a few lacerations to his face and hands.
The other two tanks in the troop, Aggressive and Arethusa, had also been hit multiple times. Arethusa had come off worse, its left track had been broken and one of the bogies needed to be replaced. Otherwise, A Squadron thought they’d accounted for at least fifty tanks for four of their own disabled, and one crew and tank destroyed. The intelligence officer had smiled as each tank crew claimed multiple kills. Between 1 RTR and 8th Hussars, 75 Italian tanks had actually been destroyed. The chances were that when the wrecks were examined, there would be some that would look like Swiss cheese.
Smith joined Major John Wilkins, the Squadron CO, and the other troop leaders for the morning briefing. Aware that everybody in the Squadron would be tired after the previous day’s action, Wilkins noted that today was likely to be less exciting. The Squadron was to move north, past yesterday’s battle site, occupy Bir Durfan, if there were any Italians left there. A halt there would allow for the diesel carriers to come up and refill the tanks. After that, it was a simple matter of carrying on northwards towards the sea, about thirty-five miles as the crow flies. Most of the infantry from 69th Brigade would be accompanying the 1st RTR and 8th Hussars. The force would also include 74th Field Regiment RA; 61st Anti-tank Regiment, and a couple of batteries of 34th LAA Regiment. The objective was to cut the road between Misurata and Homs at Zliten. After time for questions and sorting out last minute details of practical concerns, Major Wilson wished the Squadron “Good hunting!” and Smith returned back to Adsum. Since the troop now consisted just of Adsum and Aggressive, he briefed the two crews together and happy that everyone was in a good mood, he gave orders to move off.
It took an hour to reach the site of the battle, and the wrecks of the Italian tanks did indeed appear to be full of holes, many of them burned down to twisted wrecks. The crew of Arethusa had stayed the night, along with the men of the Light Aid Detachment, trying to get the tanks fixed up that could be. A Battalion of Green Howards from 69th Brigade were protecting the site and sorting out the prisoners and wounded Italians. There was no time to dawdle, and Smith had to have a quiet word with Twist and Wilson as the hung out the turret making comments about the shattered Italian force. They were quiet when passing a burned out Valiant and M13/40, the Italian tank had obviously managed to get very close to the Valiant’s side and it looked like the British tank had been penetrated with a few shells. The Italian tank looked as if it hadn’t survived very long after knocking out the British tank.
Rolling into Bir Durfan was, literally a walk over. A company of 5th Bn East Yorks went ahead of the tanks, with engineers to check for mines, but nothing was found. The whole place had been abandoned. There was time for a brew, while waiting for the trucks carrying the diesel in Jerry Cans to arrive. There was also some time for a bit of souvenir hunting. The Ariete Division, having left in a hurry had abandoned a great deal of supplies which were raided to have a change from standard British rations. Dried pasta wasn’t to the taste of many of the British troops, but there was enough ‘interesting’ stuff to keep the troops occupied. Major Wilkins threatened bloody murder if anyone was caught drinking, but many tanks had some bottles of wine stashed away as they moved off in the early afternoon.
The next twenty miles took Smith’s troop just under three hours to negotiate. The road itself was quite good, as was the desert on each side. Obviously, someone on the Italian side hadn’t lost all sense of military discipline. A few demolitions had been carried out, and every now and again a mine would catch a tank or lorry unawares. The effect was to slow the advance, although two squadrons of the 8th Hussars, with a company of South African armoured cars pushed ahead at their best possible speed to scout the area and check if there was any serious opposition ahead.
Listening into the Squadron net, Smith noted that another Valiant had thrown a track, and he felt sorry for the crew. It was a hard job sorting that out, eventually the LAD would get to them. In the meantime, Smith could imagine the jeers from all the other vehicles that passed them, such was life in the army. Major Wilkins came on the net to ask Ajax Troop to move out further on the right flank. Smith had got used to being on the very edge of the Battalion, but wondered what had been seen to widen the route of march. Having passed the message over to Aggressive, the two tanks widened the gap between themselves and the main force. Twist, who had his head out of the turret, spotted a dust cloud in the direction they were moving towards. Using hand signals to the Sergeant commanding Aggressive, Smith ordered Twist to get himself set, Wilson was ready with a 2-pdr shell as soon as Twist opened the breech.
Trying to focus through his binoculars the jolting of the tank was making it almost impossible to tell what he was looking at, but it was certainly getting closer. Seeing a small rise ahead, he ordered Jones to pull the tank into a hull down position, he noted that Aggressive followed his lead. Smith clambered up onto the roof of the turret to give him the height to see what was approaching. Finally, the binoculars brought into focus a gaggle of vehicles that were actually on a course that would take them into the side of the main force if everyone continued on the same bearings. All the vehicles Smith could see were wheeled, there was no immediate sign of any tanks, though he was sure he could see a couple of armoured cars.
The vehicles looked Italian and a quick check of the map gave Smith the idea that this was part of the retreating Italian army heading directly back towards Homs and Tripoli. Signalling back to Wilkins on the Squadron net, he gave a situation report, and noted that other than a couple of armoured cars, most of the vehicles were soft skinned, with permission to engage, Bill Jones nosed the tank forward, so that Twist had a clear view of the targets. While Twist would go for the leading Armoured Car, Smith ran over to Aggressive and quickly outlined his plan.
As the range closed, Smith gave permission to fire and Twist was delighted to note that his first shot was a hit, the second missed, but the third brought the Armoured Car to a halt with thick smoke belching from it. Jones, on the third shot, immediately gunned the tank forward over the rise, and Twist used the co-axial machine gun to bring the cars and lorries under fire. Aggressive had taken out the Armoured Car at the back of the column and had joined Adsum in brassing up the Italian vehicles.
Twist was ready to fire the main gun again, but Smith ordered him to keep up the good work with the Besa, it seemed to be doing a good enough job. The distance was now closing fast, but from a car in the centre of the column, Smith could see something white being waved. He ordered Twist to cease fire, and gave the same order to Aggressive. Two lorries were on fire, and Italian infantry were pulling out wounded comrades, but no one was pointing any weapons at Smith, which he thought was quite sporting of them.
While there was an attachment to take a Bren gun on the turret of the Valiant I tank, it was very rarely carried. Instead, Smith had an Italian machine pistol, liberated from Tobruk, which he took with him. As the dust was settling, he could see that the white thing that had been waved was a man’s shirt. Knowing that the two tanks’ co-axial machine guns were covering him, Smith walked, calmly as if on a stroll, and found himself facing a somewhat irate Italian in a very splendid uniform. Smith only had a few words of Italian, but another irate Italian, is a less splendid, but still impressive uniform, had enough English to announce the surrender of General Carlo Vecchiarelli, General Officer Commanding Tripolitania Command and General Officer Commanding XX Corps. The English-speaking officer introduced himself as General Fedele de Giorgis, until recently GOC 55th Infantry Division ‘Savona’. Smith suddenly had a horrible feeling that the battle the day before was nowhere near as bad as this day was about to turn out.
Lieutenant Peter Smith had to be shaken awake so that his gunner, John Twist could pass him his hot sweet tea. The previous day had been the most exciting, terrifying day of their lives. That explained Twist’s question, “Hope its another day like yesterday?” Smith felt himself shiver as he emerged from under his blanket, it had been a cold night. The shivering he’d been doing the night before was trying to work the adrenaline out of his system.
Private Wilson, the loader in Adsum, had outdone himself the day before, and was smiling still. Smith remembered the way in which the whole crew had worked together in such harmony. Bill Jones had kept the tank moving, with short halts to let Twist fire accurately. Smith had called out the targets, Twist laid on and Wilson loaded. They’d fired off every single shell they carried, ninety-five casings had been thrown out of the hull after the battle.
There was some debate around the troop the night before about how many Italian tanks each tank crew had brewed up. Smith wasn’t entirely sure, the whole day was just a kaleidoscope of memories. He’d sat with the Squadron intelligence officer and tried to make sense of it all. Twist and Wilson were in such a fine display of teamwork, that when Twist responded to his designation of a target, he shouted “On!” Jones would halt, and almost immediately Twist followed with “Away!” When Wilson said “Up!”, Twist would fire again “Away!”, “Up!” “Away!” “Up!”. Three shots into the target, then Jones would move. If Smith was happy that the target was destroyed, he would call out another, and the whole process would start again.
Coming on to the Italian tank regiment had started off like a training exercise back in Blighty. Having caught them in the flank, the first few targets were simple shots crossing in front of the tank. Once the Italians were aware of the danger, they turned towards the British tanks and tried to close the distance, so that their guns would be able to penetrate the Valiant’s armour. By the end of the battle, it felt like they were in engaged in a knife-fight. Adsum had taken four hits, all of which had bounced off, but the last had caused some fragments of spalling which had given Jones a terrible fright and a few lacerations to his face and hands.
The other two tanks in the troop, Aggressive and Arethusa, had also been hit multiple times. Arethusa had come off worse, its left track had been broken and one of the bogies needed to be replaced. Otherwise, A Squadron thought they’d accounted for at least fifty tanks for four of their own disabled, and one crew and tank destroyed. The intelligence officer had smiled as each tank crew claimed multiple kills. Between 1 RTR and 8th Hussars, 75 Italian tanks had actually been destroyed. The chances were that when the wrecks were examined, there would be some that would look like Swiss cheese.
Smith joined Major John Wilkins, the Squadron CO, and the other troop leaders for the morning briefing. Aware that everybody in the Squadron would be tired after the previous day’s action, Wilkins noted that today was likely to be less exciting. The Squadron was to move north, past yesterday’s battle site, occupy Bir Durfan, if there were any Italians left there. A halt there would allow for the diesel carriers to come up and refill the tanks. After that, it was a simple matter of carrying on northwards towards the sea, about thirty-five miles as the crow flies. Most of the infantry from 69th Brigade would be accompanying the 1st RTR and 8th Hussars. The force would also include 74th Field Regiment RA; 61st Anti-tank Regiment, and a couple of batteries of 34th LAA Regiment. The objective was to cut the road between Misurata and Homs at Zliten. After time for questions and sorting out last minute details of practical concerns, Major Wilson wished the Squadron “Good hunting!” and Smith returned back to Adsum. Since the troop now consisted just of Adsum and Aggressive, he briefed the two crews together and happy that everyone was in a good mood, he gave orders to move off.
It took an hour to reach the site of the battle, and the wrecks of the Italian tanks did indeed appear to be full of holes, many of them burned down to twisted wrecks. The crew of Arethusa had stayed the night, along with the men of the Light Aid Detachment, trying to get the tanks fixed up that could be. A Battalion of Green Howards from 69th Brigade were protecting the site and sorting out the prisoners and wounded Italians. There was no time to dawdle, and Smith had to have a quiet word with Twist and Wilson as the hung out the turret making comments about the shattered Italian force. They were quiet when passing a burned out Valiant and M13/40, the Italian tank had obviously managed to get very close to the Valiant’s side and it looked like the British tank had been penetrated with a few shells. The Italian tank looked as if it hadn’t survived very long after knocking out the British tank.
Rolling into Bir Durfan was, literally a walk over. A company of 5th Bn East Yorks went ahead of the tanks, with engineers to check for mines, but nothing was found. The whole place had been abandoned. There was time for a brew, while waiting for the trucks carrying the diesel in Jerry Cans to arrive. There was also some time for a bit of souvenir hunting. The Ariete Division, having left in a hurry had abandoned a great deal of supplies which were raided to have a change from standard British rations. Dried pasta wasn’t to the taste of many of the British troops, but there was enough ‘interesting’ stuff to keep the troops occupied. Major Wilkins threatened bloody murder if anyone was caught drinking, but many tanks had some bottles of wine stashed away as they moved off in the early afternoon.
The next twenty miles took Smith’s troop just under three hours to negotiate. The road itself was quite good, as was the desert on each side. Obviously, someone on the Italian side hadn’t lost all sense of military discipline. A few demolitions had been carried out, and every now and again a mine would catch a tank or lorry unawares. The effect was to slow the advance, although two squadrons of the 8th Hussars, with a company of South African armoured cars pushed ahead at their best possible speed to scout the area and check if there was any serious opposition ahead.
Listening into the Squadron net, Smith noted that another Valiant had thrown a track, and he felt sorry for the crew. It was a hard job sorting that out, eventually the LAD would get to them. In the meantime, Smith could imagine the jeers from all the other vehicles that passed them, such was life in the army. Major Wilkins came on the net to ask Ajax Troop to move out further on the right flank. Smith had got used to being on the very edge of the Battalion, but wondered what had been seen to widen the route of march. Having passed the message over to Aggressive, the two tanks widened the gap between themselves and the main force. Twist, who had his head out of the turret, spotted a dust cloud in the direction they were moving towards. Using hand signals to the Sergeant commanding Aggressive, Smith ordered Twist to get himself set, Wilson was ready with a 2-pdr shell as soon as Twist opened the breech.
Trying to focus through his binoculars the jolting of the tank was making it almost impossible to tell what he was looking at, but it was certainly getting closer. Seeing a small rise ahead, he ordered Jones to pull the tank into a hull down position, he noted that Aggressive followed his lead. Smith clambered up onto the roof of the turret to give him the height to see what was approaching. Finally, the binoculars brought into focus a gaggle of vehicles that were actually on a course that would take them into the side of the main force if everyone continued on the same bearings. All the vehicles Smith could see were wheeled, there was no immediate sign of any tanks, though he was sure he could see a couple of armoured cars.
The vehicles looked Italian and a quick check of the map gave Smith the idea that this was part of the retreating Italian army heading directly back towards Homs and Tripoli. Signalling back to Wilkins on the Squadron net, he gave a situation report, and noted that other than a couple of armoured cars, most of the vehicles were soft skinned, with permission to engage, Bill Jones nosed the tank forward, so that Twist had a clear view of the targets. While Twist would go for the leading Armoured Car, Smith ran over to Aggressive and quickly outlined his plan.
As the range closed, Smith gave permission to fire and Twist was delighted to note that his first shot was a hit, the second missed, but the third brought the Armoured Car to a halt with thick smoke belching from it. Jones, on the third shot, immediately gunned the tank forward over the rise, and Twist used the co-axial machine gun to bring the cars and lorries under fire. Aggressive had taken out the Armoured Car at the back of the column and had joined Adsum in brassing up the Italian vehicles.
Twist was ready to fire the main gun again, but Smith ordered him to keep up the good work with the Besa, it seemed to be doing a good enough job. The distance was now closing fast, but from a car in the centre of the column, Smith could see something white being waved. He ordered Twist to cease fire, and gave the same order to Aggressive. Two lorries were on fire, and Italian infantry were pulling out wounded comrades, but no one was pointing any weapons at Smith, which he thought was quite sporting of them.
While there was an attachment to take a Bren gun on the turret of the Valiant I tank, it was very rarely carried. Instead, Smith had an Italian machine pistol, liberated from Tobruk, which he took with him. As the dust was settling, he could see that the white thing that had been waved was a man’s shirt. Knowing that the two tanks’ co-axial machine guns were covering him, Smith walked, calmly as if on a stroll, and found himself facing a somewhat irate Italian in a very splendid uniform. Smith only had a few words of Italian, but another irate Italian, is a less splendid, but still impressive uniform, had enough English to announce the surrender of General Carlo Vecchiarelli, General Officer Commanding Tripolitania Command and General Officer Commanding XX Corps. The English-speaking officer introduced himself as General Fedele de Giorgis, until recently GOC 55th Infantry Division ‘Savona’. Smith suddenly had a horrible feeling that the battle the day before was nowhere near as bad as this day was about to turn out.
Yep. Oh, and the managed to hold Crete. And all that at the end of a supply line stretching all around Africa.
Also, a good chapter. It looks like the Italians are gone, since even their brass is in the bag.
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Well, capturing the Italian commander is going to put a crimp in their defensive plans. If they've bagged a rear echelon HQ unit, then there's likely to be a lot of troops that have been cut off following along behind them.
I think the Axis cupboard in North Africa is looking particularly bare at the moment.
I think the Axis cupboard in North Africa is looking particularly bare at the moment.
Chaotic to say the least given that reports are probably being fed back to the units there I expect various people maybe looking for captains willing to risk the Royal Navy.
Panic will set in once it's learned that the Army Commander has been captured. These are the situations where discipline may shatter.
And then some aside from what I said expect it to get worse especially if you get some bright spark playing deny asserts to the enemy and sets fire to something and it will spread out of control in the panic.
Ports are nightmares when it comes to fire safety and if they have a few slips there I expect them to go up and out of control because you have things like paint and other flammables there too.
Well, I can imagine that Smith is currently going "Oh balls." because if they've bagged a rear echelon HQ section then where are the rest of the Italians?
"They’re Behind You" chant the boys and girls at the Pantomime!
Not really. The French are likely to be seen as on the same level as the Italians, which is a fairly damning indictment.It's a bit hard to make it more prevalent than now, don't you think ?
more trucks is always a good option.Unless of course one picks a single truck from each and every truck manufacturer in the world.But who would do such a silly thing.
Capturing the senior Italian generals could prove very useful. Would it not be possible to attempt to persuade, compel and/or bluff them to arrange and expedite the surrender of the rest of any organized Italian army units that were under their command? Even if only by radio using their command codes? To spare the further pointless loss of Italian lives in their currently hopeless tactical situation of course. Only a partial bluff I think.
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Yeah, because no country at war has access to all of the world's automotive companies.
Smith, realising that he is about to be the focus of every British intel officer in North Africa, several generals, including 8th Army and Middle-East GOCs and, worst of all, The Press.