Romans in Cuba

[Wozza]

The Romans in Europe stopped fighting with large square shields and short swords. By the sixth century they were even starting to lost their taste for bathhouses.

I blame cinema, which provides a quite misleading visual image of how the Roman Empire was for most of its history.

Realistically this civilization cannot look Roman, there is no African red slipware for one thing, and even with skilled craftsmen there will simply not be the knowledge, or probably materials, to build the style of buildings the Romans would have. The would also have a limited amount of texts with them - meaning only a few Roman ideas could ever be preserved, and there would be no papyri, meaning the usual substitutes would have to be found, which would take a while.

The bugs, animals and ideas they did bring would still revolutionise the Americas.

 

[MrP]

Yes, I rather think that the Roman America scenario desired requires ISOTing an entire urban area. To the ASB forum!

 

[Umbral]

Or something not set up by castaways, which remain in contact with Rome for some time. I really cannot find any reason which would be compelling enough for the romans to do that though.
Its just too far. Well, there were romans in India, but there were lots of trade opportunities and ports on the way.

Perhaps the christians just get banished?

 

[MrP]

Or something not set up by castaways, which remain in contact with Rome for some time. I really cannot find any reason which would be compelling enough for the romans to do that though.
Its just too far. Well, there were romans in India, but there were lots of trade opportunities and ports on the way.

Perhaps the christians just get banished?

It's so much simpler to kill them - and if one's Nero, to use them as humorous garden party lighting.

 

[JP_Morgan]

I don't really think so..... there's no way the Romans would put so many resources into maintaining a colony overseas when they have to defend their frontier.

 

[Gimple]

Lets say the castaways were of the Roman Empire of Julius Caesar's time. Now lets say it was one of them ancient super ships I have been hearing so much about on the History Channel.
They get to Cuba and immediately set up camp as only Romans do. The ship is relatively intact and the few minor repairs needed can be done with local timber.
The natives are relatively peaceful. Romans as opposed to Spaniards don't have the God given need to convert the locals. Their men are also soldiers and not mercenaries and don't go out raping all the girls. Very likely the Romans would quickly take over the island, leaving the natives to their own devices as long as the Romans were fed. Soon they would learn of other islands and would eventually search for more resources.
If they reach the mainland anywhere in Mezo America they would interfere with the Izapa civilization ever rising. No Olmecs or Toltecs. No Maya, no Aztec, no great Indian civilizations in the area.
I am sure by the time the Spanish arrive the "Romans" would look no different racially then other tribes.

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

I really cannot find any reason which would be compelling enough for the romans to do that though.

Salt? How much would it cost to set up salt works in the Bahamas and ship it back across the Atlantic? (versus shipping it on camels across the Sahara, or paying legions to besiege Masada for years on end)

And while they're doing this, they'll inevitably run into unlucky natives wearing gold trinkets.

 

[Umbral]

Intersting. Were salt in that high demend by the Romans? I never knew that. Some offcourse ship lands on the Bahams, and actually makes it back...

It's so much simpler to kill them - and if one's Nero, to use them as humorous garden party lighting.

Yes, it is, but I could see situations where it was politically inadvisable to kill them, while still wanting them gone.

 

[Fardell]

What if some Romans blown off course, find themselves in Cuba. They proceed to set up a civilization that colonizes most of the carribean, and florida maybe. Now what happens when the Spanish arrive and find some remnant of this state.

Given most of the replies in this thread, I am going to say that the Romans have to integrate into the local society of the time, and that there is little legacy of them when the Spanish arrive.

 

[AirshipArmada]

Let's say the small group of Romans are assimilated . . . but the Caribbean gains a few of the following:
sailing / rowing ships, the wheel, the potters wheel, a few animals (say pigs, rats, or chickens for a start), the capstan, drum bellows, bronze work, iron work, an alphabet, the simple lathe, the beam press, the arch, the pulley, the screw, the screw pump, glass blowing, catapult, ballista, gastropults, crane, roman military discipline and traditions, other.

Given a few of these, and the descendant of the castaways can take over neighboring tribes. Eventually a Caribbean Empire may form - it looks mostly New World but has some Old World technology and some Old World genes.

The Caribbean Empire covers the Gulf but is often at war with the Yucatan tribes and the tribes at the mouth of the Mississippi. Those tribes also gain the old world tech.

Columbus arrives in 1492 looking for China and finds a civilization which he is pretty sure is China. He establishes some trade (his original goal). His subsequent trips are for trade rather than colonization. The Caribbean Empire already has trade networks to get gold and silver from the mainland so both sides find lots of stuff they want to trade for.

 

[Thande]

This did happen OTL with the Irish and the Vikings, but they only left cultural traces on a small area, and it took experts to notice the connection. Probably the same here - the first anyone will know of it is when some European linguist in the 19th century realises how similar the language of the unusual 'White Indians' of Cuba is to classical Latin, or something.

 

[M79]

Have Sartorius flee Spain for the West after his failed rebellion ~40BC and take 10,000 people with him. Half are lost and the rest land in northern Brazil following the tides (As the Portguese did 1502ish). Eventually they build a city, perhaps at modern Recife or Salvador, and build an entirely new society. By 1500 there are several large successor states all over the hemisphere, with any luck one might be rich/advanced enough to send ships out to follow the old legend of a homeland circa 1000 AD and land in Moorish al-Andalusia.

As for technology? Usually it comes around by competition, and I doubt they will make advances for a few hundred years. But if you start with 5000 people and give them some favorable seasons with good crops, it might work.