Roman Colonization Of The Americas

[WrappedInShadows]

I'm not sure the types of ships commonly used throughout different eras of the Roman Empire,but Would it have ever been possible for the Romans to reach the Americas, or even perhaps colonize them?

If the Romans simply stayed for a while, but then took off, might this prepare the natives for later European colonization? As they might have picked up things such as metal-working and horses, as well as immunity to certain European Diseases.

If they stuck around, how would the modern Americas look, with an extra thirteen centuries of European interaction?

 

[Deleted member 67076]

I don't think the Romans had the ships or the logistics to run an overseas empire.

 

[NKVD]

Whether or not contact gives the indigenous Americans immunity for some later colonization depends on how long it is before that later colonization, I'd imagine. Considering the rate bacteria and viruses evolve at.

 

[Oba]

I don't think the Romans had the ships or the logistics to run an overseas empire.

Look up the "Nerva ships"; not seaworthy but clearly big. Also, why couldn't the Romans get superior nautical technology from the Indian Ocean, with its abundance of sailing bedens or dhows, far more advanced than Roman galleys and capable of long-distance blue water travel.

Anyway, Rome was in many ways more advanced than the Iberians who first invaded the Americas in OTL: They in fact had better logistics via roads, aqueducts, &c. (also note the grain supply to Rome, which could serve as a partial model for an empire in the Americas); they also had a larger population.

BTW, note the Norse and Vinland: Far less advanced than the Romans but in the right location. Also look up "Abu Bakr II" and his expedition from Imperial Mali across the Atlantic.

 

[WrappedInShadows]

Look up the "Nerva ships"; not seaworthy but clearly big. Also, why couldn't the Romans get superior nautical technology from the Indian Ocean, with its abundance of sailing bedens or dhows, far more advanced than Roman galleys and capable of long-distance blue water travel.

Anyway, Rome was in many ways more advanced than the Iberians who first invaded the Americas in OTL: They in fact had better logistics via roads, aqueducts, &c. (also note the grain supply to Rome, which could serve as a partial model for an empire in the Americas); they also had a larger population.

BTW, note the Norse and Vinland: Far less advanced than the Romans but in the right location. Also look up "Abu Bakr II" and his expedition from Imperial Mali across the Atlantic.

Interesting...

This might make a good TL.


I Think Abu Bakr's Trans-Atlantic journey is discounted by most scholars however.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

BTW, note the Norse and Vinland: Far less advanced than the Romans but in the right location. Also look up "Abu Bakr II" and his expedition from Imperial Mali across the Atlantic.

The Norse were expert sailors with experience on open seas, but even they still island hopped, had a good idea of where they were going, and got driven off by the natives anyways. Abu Bakr's voyage on the other hand was either fictional or unsuccessful, the story doesn't have him returning or setting up a colony after all.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Well if they control Scotland, I imagine they could discover Iceland, and from there Greenland.

 

[Dionysius I]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca_head

The Romans arrived to the Canary Island and a lost ship could easily be swept to the other side. Return trip is much more complicated. The only real contribution of Columbus is that he understood the winds and currents. He provided a viable and reproducible route.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Could the Romans invent the compass.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca_head

The Romans arrived to the Canary Island and a lost ship could easily be swept to the other side. Return trip is much more complicated. The only real contribution of Columbus is that he understood the winds and currents. He provided a viable and reproducible route.

That was a hoax. There remains absolutely no proof that it was anything but. And a stormswept Roman ship results in a shipload of dead Romans, nothing more.

 

[pompejus]

Could? Maybe, not sure? Would? No! There is absolutely no reason why the Romans would colonise the Americas, even if reliable contact could be made. Everything the Romans would be able to do in the Americas they could far far more easily do in Europe, Africa and Asia. if the Romans discover America, they would probably simply ignore it.

 

[Elfwine]

That was a hoax. There remains absolutely no proof that it was anything but. And a stormswept Roman ship results in a shipload of dead Romans, nothing more.

Maybe diseases, but that has more impact via butterflies than anything else.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Could? Maybe, not sure? Would? No! There is absolutely no reason why the Romans would colonise the Americas, even if reliable contact could be made. Everything the Romans would be able to do in the Americas they could far far more easily do in Europe, Africa and Asia. if the Romans discover America, they would probably simply ignore it.

If they survive longer, at some point they won't just ignore. The Romans (assuming they advance technologically enough to colonize the area) are not about to pass up an opportunity to get more gold when they need it. Just ask the Dacians.

 

[pompejus]

If they survive longer, at some point they won't just ignore. The Romans (assuming they advance technologically enough to colonize the area) are not about to pass up an opportunity to get more gold when they need it. Just ask the Dacians.

Maybe not ignore it, but my point still stands. Everything you can get in America, you can get in Europe, Asia or Africa and far more easily, including gold.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Maybe not ignore it, but my point still stands. Everything you can get in America, you can get in Europe, Asia or Africa and far more easily, including gold.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they are not going to take an opportunity when they see it.

 

[Elfwine]

Yes, but that doesn't mean they are not going to take an opportunity when they see it.

Except that it isn't an opportunity. It's, to paraphrase Faeelin from memory "So, like Germania. Only further away."

This isn't some game where gold deposits go into your resource stockpile immediately, despite the tendency to treat colonization as if it was a Civ or Age of Empires game.

 

[smjb]

The problem isn't that the ships wouldn't make it, the problem is, why would they go? There is, as far as the Romans know, nothing but endless ocean out there, and maybe theoretically some sort of counterweight continent on the exact opposite side of the planet. Who would undertake such a suicidal venture? And, if miraculously you found a captain foolhardy enough to undergo the venture and he manages to return, what would he have to show for his voyage? A few stone trinkets, maybe a native or two who will likely die the moment anyone sneezes on them. Yeah, that sounds worth making a journey of several months for.

And no, the natives wouldn't get any imunity out of the deal--the travel time for a Roman ship would cause any disease it was harboring to long since run its course.

Look up the "Nerva ships"; not seaworthy but clearly big. Also, why couldn't the Romans get superior nautical technology from the Indian Ocean, with its abundance of sailing bedens or dhows, far more advanced than Roman galleys and capable of long-distance blue water travel.

Anyway, Rome was in many ways more advanced than the Iberians who first invaded the Americas in OTL: They in fact had better logistics via roads, aqueducts, &c. (also note the grain supply to Rome, which could serve as a partial model for an empire in the Americas); they also had a larger population.

BTW, note the Norse and Vinland: Far less advanced than the Romans but in the right location. Also look up "Abu Bakr II" and his expedition from Imperial Mali across the Atlantic.

Not comparable. The Norse lived for the ocean and exploration and had a whole daisy chain of islands to lead them to North America.

Well if they control Scotland, I imagine they could discover Iceland, and from there Greenland.

Yes, but why? What possible value would Greenland be to Rome? Furthermore, they would not have done well in the cold.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Yes, but why? What possible value would Greenland be to Rome? Furthermore, they would not have done well in the cold.

I never said they would do anything with that knowledge. It's not impossible though for some Roman sailors to stumble upon Iceland. They can discover something and just go about their day. Maybe a few Romans living in the area would migrate there but Rome itself would probably do nothing with it.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Except that it isn't an opportunity. It's, to paraphrase Faeelin from memory "So, like Germania. Only further away."

This isn't some game where gold deposits go into your resource stockpile immediately, despite the tendency to treat colonization as if it was a Civ or Age of Empires game.

A better analogy is: Dacia but only further.

 

[pompejus]

A better analogy is: Dacia but only further.

Perhaps, but there are Dacias closer than America.