Realistic Steampunk?

[The Admiral Hook]

Just as it says on the tin.

I'm sure most alternate historians or speculative historical fictionites have some place deep in their hearts for steampunk of some form or another; to some degree or another.

I understand that much of it is purely fiction and I'm not looking for much comment on that, but of course, there is the possibility that some things addressed in steampunk works could have come to pass, so I pose the question:

What sort of scenarios of slightly or significantly earlier technology could be discussed? What are some examples of realistic steampunk?

The effects of these are up for discussion as well. Have at it.

 

[Dangimill]

Off the top of my head, I could see Zeppelins being commercially viable if not for the Hindenburg and their association with imperial Germany.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Well, the "Analytical Engine" was pretty realistic. The Babbage machines, after all, would have worked just fine, had they been produced. So having Victorian Era analog computers seems pretty realistic to me. Although its such a huge change, that I don't blame many writers from steering away from it.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Off the top of my head, I could see Zeppelins being commercially viable if not for the Hindenburg and their association with imperial Germany.

Well that is the obvious one, yes. I'm glad it was mentioned first.

Well, the "Analytical Engine" was pretty realistic. The Babbage machines, after all, would have worked just fine, had they been produced. So having Victorian Era analog computers seems pretty realistic to me. Although its such a huge change, that I don't blame many writers from steering away from it.

Well, perhaps not such a huge change. Remember what they were capable of and what they likely would have been used for and then compare with... "The Difference Engine."

It would have been a significant change in how we calculated losses in wars and probably money in the stock markets. Hackers strike me as being a bit more far off...

Still, we're off to a good start.

I think automatic weapons were in the works as early as the late 18th century, iirc, though I'd have to check some sources before I can comment.

 

[Dangimill]

Well, the "Analytical Engine" was pretty realistic. The Babbage machines, after all, would have worked just fine, had they been produced. So having Victorian Era analog computers seems pretty realistic to me. Although its such a huge change, that I don't blame many writers from steering away from it.

Babbage did have a very cool design and very badly deserved to have his invention work. This would be an interesting timeline, using the difference engine's success as a PoD. Especially if it were recognized for use beyond measuring land and creating naval tables, as it was designed for IOTL.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Babbage did have a very cool design and very badly deserved to have his invention work. This would be an interesting timeline, using the difference engine's success as a PoD. Especially if it were recognized for use beyond measuring land and creating naval tables, as it was designed for IOTL.

I think you'll love this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine

 

[Dangimill]

I think you'll love this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine

Interesting. I may have to get my hands on a copy.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Interesting. I may have to get my hands on a copy.

It's not totally realistic, but it is awesome and very well researched. I recommend it to the "casual alternate historian"/ "realistic steampunk fan" hybrid.

Any more ideas? Does anyone know what I'm talking about as far as 18th Century automatic weapons?

 

[von Adler]

You probably need better metallurgy (which probably requires an earlier adoption of the steam engine to drain coal and iron mines), oil-fired stronger steam engines ~40 years earlier than OTL, smokeless gunpowder, the introduction of long-range indirectly (and not within LoS) firing artillery and the need for ballistic calculations with analogue computing machines, widespread access to helium and a more advanced aerodynamic design.

Basically, you need to advance everything except heavier than air flight about 50 years before OTL, so that 1920s technology is available 1870.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

You probably need better metallurgy (which probably requires an earlier adoption of the steam engine to drain coal and iron mines), oil-fired stronger steam engines ~40 years earlier than OTL, smokeless gunpowder, the introduction of long-range indirectly (and not within LoS) firing artillery and the need for ballistic calculations with analogue computing machines, widespread access to helium and a more advanced aerodynamic design.

Basically, you need to advance everything except heavier than air flight about 50 years before OTL, so that 1920s technology is available 1870.

But is all of that... realistic?

 

[The Admiral Hook]

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Puckle

 

[MerryPrankster]

I'm working on a steampunk TL with air pirates. I figure in order to get aircraft, you need a fairly advanced society, but in order to have piracy as a viable career, you need disorder and uncertainty.

That's how I came up with the idea for a collapsing Confederacy whose borderlands are havens for air pirates. I'll probably post the TL here sooner or later.

The Babbage Engine is a good starting point, although I don't know what it would actually be used for.

 

[AtriumCarceris]

The Babbage Engine is a good starting point, although I don't know what it would actually be used for.

General Calculations. Things like general astronomical data, or just general mathematics. I've heard it suggested that they could be used for range-keeping, or generally be put aboard ships to prevent collisions and make sure everybody is staying on course. If they showed up in colleges or whatever, we might see knowledge advance slightly anyway, just from better, faster calculating.


Other suggestions. I've heard it suggested that it might be possible to build airships with steam as the lifting gas. It would be cheap, would be used with a steam engine, and probably not the worst thing in the world.

You might be able to get earlier Dynamite, Gelignite, and Ballistite. You could have Acanio Sobrero be more bold with his discovery of Nitroglycerin and have him not blow himself up, developing these explosives earlier. Heck, you could go all the way and have him develop Nitroglycerin earlier in the first place.

So how exactly STEAMpunk do we need to be? Earlier things like the radio or telephone might be possible, but is that steampunk?

 

[carlton_bach]

Babbage's engine was in many ways a computer - in the sense that it could do an awful lot, but it needed an awful lot of programming first. I think the real market would have been in purpose-built, dedicated machinery. The existence of versatile, highly complex computers for high-end tasks could drive innovation in less demanding fields.

I mean, computer games? Who'd have though of something that silly?

 

[Awilla the Hun]

I gather the Difference Engine (or one of Babbage's machines) had an attached noughts and crosses machine.

 

[dgharis]

General Calculations. Things like general astronomical data, or just general mathematics. I've heard it suggested that they could be used for range-keeping, or generally be put aboard ships to prevent collisions and make sure everybody is staying on course. If they showed up in colleges or whatever, we might see knowledge advance slightly anyway, just from better, faster calculating.


Other suggestions. I've heard it suggested that it might be possible to build airships with steam as the lifting gas. It would be cheap, would be used with a steam engine, and probably not the worst thing in the world.

You might be able to get earlier Dynamite, Gelignite, and Ballistite. You could have Acanio Sobrero be more bold with his discovery of Nitroglycerin and have him not blow himself up, developing these explosives earlier. Heck, you could go all the way and have him develop Nitroglycerin earlier in the first place.

So how exactly STEAMpunk do we need to be? Earlier things like the radio or telephone might be possible, but is that steampunk?

In general steampunk simply uses electro-mechanical devices to substitute for electronic devices, so radio is not really possible, but telegraphy and telephony are.

Chemical advances such as smokeless powder and high explosives are certainly possible. So are machine guns and other advanced weapons.

Using steam as a lifting gas is impractical; the need to keep pumping heat into the envelope means you have to carry your steam engine along with you, and that's a lot of extra weight. Hydrogen and helium are much better as lifting gases, since they don't lose all buoyancy with changes in temperature.

 

[Paladin]

Have this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas-Joseph_Cugnot
work on his steam car a bit more, and maybe use a more conventional four wheel layout and steering apparatus. Bang, steam tractors in use a full century before OTL.

 

[Amedras]

What sort of scenarios of slightly or significantly earlier technology could be discussed? What are some examples of realistic steampunk?

The Stirling engine was developed back in 1816; pursuing that would've been interesting, to say the least.

The problem with steampunk isn't design, it's distribution. Before a certain point, it's designing ahead of its manufacturing base; past a certain point, it takes a commitment to inefficiency to keep going. Steampunk writing generally doesn't address that; it'd be much more plausible if it did.

The Britannica-6 worldline from GURPS (where England went steampunk instead of Victorian) explored that pretty well, which is why (aside from being a predictable Britwank) it's my favorite steampunk to date. (Most of its research is dictated by Rule of Cool; the net result is that there's a lot of advances, made to work around the total lack of a public infrastructure.)

 

[Shawn Endresen]

Vaucanson-Jacquard lathe, 1801. Slap an Analytical Engine on that and you have something awfully close to a modern machine shop. Can help with the distribution and infrastructure problems.

Early use of nitrous oxide, chloroform and ether for anaesthetic. Early germ theory of disease. Honestly, I'm not sure why those took as long as they did OTL. Presumably early germ theory of disease can lead to earlier antibiotics.

If you really want to advance tech, though, and distribution is your bottleneck (and it is) - expand public education earlier and aggressively.

 

[MattII]

Have this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas-Joseph_Cugnot
work on his steam car a bit more, and maybe use a more conventional four wheel layout and steering apparatus. Bang, steam tractors in use a full century before OTL.

Actually, it would do better with someone else designing it, because the boiler was considered pretty poor even by the standards of the day, what with having to stop ever 15-20 minutes to refill and relight (and the machine not carrying any spares of either), and even then not making more than about 2 mph.