Queen Isabella Is Killed By The Scots in 1322

[Teriyaki]

Point of Divergence ... To me, one of the most badass women of the Middle Ages, if not all history, was Isabella of France. And I don't just say that as her direct descendant. Married to notorious bisexual King Edward the II, Isabella had to endure years of neglect by a husband who doted on handsome male favorites rather than his wife. In 1322, Isabella and Edward were on an autumn campaign when the two were separated. While Edward escaped with his army and his current boy toy Edward Despenser to safety, Isabella was left with a small force to stand up to the Scottish army, who were none to happy to see her. Isabella had to depend on the small force of knights with her to commandeer a ship on which she escaped the Scottish army, but not before losing two of her ladies in waiting. This was the turning point for Isabella, as after this she openly stood against her husband, and eventually dethroned him.

What if Isabella had been killed by Scottish forces? Without Isabella, there would have never been a rebellion and Edward the II never deposed. How does this impact England and Europe as a whole?

 

[BigDestiny]

I wouldn't say there'd never be a rebellion. Even without Isabella, eventually the barons are going to move against the Despencers. If it takes long enough, Edward is forcibly retired, his son takes over, and little changes.

The big change is going to be Scotland. Whatever difficulties Edward and Isabella had, she was his Queen and the younger Edward's mother. Vengeance for the Queen is going to be policy in both their reigns. Likely nothing will be accomplished in Edward II's reign, but look to see Edward III become the new 'Hammer of the Scots'.

If the rebellion comes soon enough that Edward II keeps his throne, it gets hard to guess what happens. The Despencers will be gone, but eventually he will fall for another pretty boy and there's no way to know who will catch his eye. The smart thing for the barons to do is make sure it's their son, grandson, or vassal, but with Christian piety and recent history against it, I don't know which of the barons would go for it.

 

[desmirelle]

E2 was not bisexual, if he had been, he and Isabella might have reached an agreement over Piers Gaveston and the Despencers would appear only in lists of who did what in E2's reign.

And here's my question: Why the hell would the Scots kill the Queen of England? That's a guarantee that they will be fighting the English AND France (from whence Isabella came, her father ran the place) - at the same damn time.

 

[desmirelle]

I can see them taking her hostage, but not killing her.

 

[BigDestiny]

In the heat of battle, stuff happens.

 

[desmirelle]

In the heat of battle, stuff happens.

True that.

So, is Isabella's father going to make the Scots pay and will E2 remarry (a woman, since his boytoy isn't an option )?

 

[BlueFlowwer]

In that case who will Edward II remarry to?

 

[desmirelle]

Is Isabella's father going to take revenge (we know her husband won't)? Edward II can go hang for all I care. He's already got a son.

 

[Teriyaki]

Is Isabella's father going to take revenge (we know her husband won't)? Edward II can go hang for all I care. He's already got a son.

I can't imagine Philip the Fair not wanting to avenge his daughter's death. I can imagine France sweeping in like a hammer and hitting the Scots with everything they have. I could also imagine Philip confronting his son in law about not protecting or caring for his daughter properly.

 

[desmirelle]

Instead of Manhattan and then Berlin, France takes Scotland and then England? (Leonard Cohen song reference)

 

[Cornelis]

Is Isabella's father going to take revenge (we know her husband won't)? Edward II can go hang for all I care. He's already got a son.

I can't imagine Philip the Fair not wanting to avenge his daughter's death. I can imagine France sweeping in like a hammer and hitting the Scots with everything they have. I could also imagine Philip confronting his son in law about not protecting or caring for his daughter properly.

Hum, guys, Philip the Fair died in 1314. He is not gonna rise from his grave, even to avenge his daughter. Charles the Fair, on the other hand, did accept a - tiny - french participation against Scotland OTL. The death of his sister would probably make him put more men in the war. Gascony issues are still likely to create a rift with Edward afterwards. Not sure if a Despencer could talk Charles into releasing Gascony to Edward the way Isabella could.