Plausibility Check: Latin America in the Scramble for Africa?
- Thread starter Fardell
- Start date
Brazil is the only country that has a chance of getting colonies in Africa, if they take the Portuguese colonies with them when they declare independence. None of the other Latin American countries have the resources or power-projection capabilities to get anything in Africa.
Maybe an earlier and more rigourous European ban on slave trading, so that the Brazilians take it into their own hand?
Or something goes wrong with the US (open oligarchy, worse civil war...), so much more Europeans emigrate to La Plata making Argentinia and Chile first world powers.
Depends on how far back your POD is. An Empire of New Spain that split off from Spain under a seperate branch of the royal family in the 1700s and had, like Brazil OTL, a relatively stable 19th century, could well have the muscle to grab some bits of Africa itself by the time for scrambling came. Similarly for some theoretical Empire of Peru, although give geography such a construction staying together seems less likely than a larger Mexico (not to mention the automatically more Asia-Pacific oriented outlokk).
For PODs after the OTL Wars of Independence, I'd agree that Brazil looks like the only really plausible candidate, unless Mexico does a truly bang-up job of getting its shit together before the 1880s.
Bruce
For PODs after the OTL Wars of Independence, I'd agree that Brazil looks like the only really plausible candidate, unless Mexico does a truly bang-up job of getting its shit together before the 1880s.
Bruce
Relatively weak European nations got colonies, that made little strategic, demographic or economic sense, for various reasons:
-trade posts/coaling stations
-prestige
-mad scheme by of a powerful ruler
Maybe some of the more flamboyant Mexican rulers just wants to impress and so Mexico ends up with another useless pice of desert.
-trade posts/coaling stations
-prestige
-mad scheme by of a powerful ruler
Maybe some of the more flamboyant Mexican rulers just wants to impress and so Mexico ends up with another useless pice of desert.
I doubt Mexico would have any interest in Africa, when there's still the north-west to colonise, and the Pacific. As someone suggested, it would take a particularly eccentric Mexican dictator with a strong economy behind him and a major colonial chip on his shoulder to try claiming African colonies.
Here are a couple of randoms:
- Brazil somehow claims Angola and/or Mozambique from the Portuguese. There were settlements of returned Brazilian slaves all along Africa's west coast in OTL, so such a proposition isn't entirely out of the question.
- When the USA relieves Spain of Cuba, she takes the outposts on Equatorial Guinea with her. Come Cuban independence, these are handed over to the Cuban Government. Pretty wild, TBH: it's more likely that the Americans would either keep said outpost to herself, or sell it to someone else. Possibly Liberia?
- A more stable, less-gimped Haiti embraces an ideology of back-to-Africa, claiming strategic points on the African coast for trade purposes. These colonies would be tiny (given the limits of the Haitian economy), but if they're clever they can pick up a couple of choice outposts worth holding onto.
Here are a couple of randoms:
- Brazil somehow claims Angola and/or Mozambique from the Portuguese. There were settlements of returned Brazilian slaves all along Africa's west coast in OTL, so such a proposition isn't entirely out of the question.
- When the USA relieves Spain of Cuba, she takes the outposts on Equatorial Guinea with her. Come Cuban independence, these are handed over to the Cuban Government. Pretty wild, TBH: it's more likely that the Americans would either keep said outpost to herself, or sell it to someone else. Possibly Liberia?
- A more stable, less-gimped Haiti embraces an ideology of back-to-Africa, claiming strategic points on the African coast for trade purposes. These colonies would be tiny (given the limits of the Haitian economy), but if they're clever they can pick up a couple of choice outposts worth holding onto.
Hm. No US-Spanish war, Cuba remains Spanish-ruled, becomes "overseas departments" under the Republic. There's a Spanish *Civil War, the Republican government flees to the Americas with much of the Navy, and the Spanish-government-in-Exile's claim to Spanish territories in Africa is backed by one major power or another, so we end up with Cuba with African holdings? A bit of a stretch, I admit... 
Bruce
Bruce
The one country I could see doing that would be Argentina, and in that case it would essentially be backing up old territorial claims from the era of the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata - the Governorate of Fernando Poo y Annobón. (corresponding roughly to the island areas of Equatorial Guinea and, to a lesser degree, some areas of São Tomé and Príncipe; Wiki link in Spanish only) That would be interesting to see.
Last edited:
Hm. No US-Spanish war, Cuba remains Spanish-ruled, becomes "overseas departments" under the Republic. There's a Spanish *Civil War, the Republican government flees to the Americas with much of the Navy, and the Spanish-government-in-Exile's claim to Spanish territories in Africa is backed by one major power or another, so we end up with Cuba with African holdings? A bit of a stretch, I admit...
Bruce
There's some trouble with that - had there been no Spanish-American War, both Cuba and Puerto Rico were already on their way to becoming Autonomous Provinces - Puerto Rico especially, where its autonomous government functioned for about 3 days or so before handed over to the US. Thus, the POD here would be no Cuban War of Independence, but Cuba accepts "Autonomous Province" status as one way to realize their aspirations (particularly with Madrid being pre-occupied by other things), which (combine with Puerto Rico's acceptance of "Autonomous Province" status, which is a give-in since they did in OTL under Luís Muñoz Rivera), means they get representation in the Cortes Generales. Under the Republic, their "Autonomous Province" status would most likely continue, which means they'd automatically be given Statutes of Autonomy from the get go. From there, if the Republican government fled, they'd obviously set up shop in Havana, with some interesting consequences for the US. Particularly if, say, they claim Equatorial Guinea (which, as I stated, could lead to some disputes with Argentina).
Very interesting article! The story is totaly unknown here in Argentina, as far as I know. I've only learned about it on this very site, from Gonzaga.
Maybe if the expedition had suceeded and a regular contact between Buenos Aires (or Montevideo) and Ferando Poo had been mantained, Argentina might have reclaimed them after independence.
As pretty much mentioned Brazil is the only likely (and plausible candidate) and it is rather easy to achieve it. Now, would it be able to retain these colonies by the time the scramble happens is a whole other matter.
The idea of Argentina claiming the Governorate of Fernando Poo y Annobon (around Equatorial Guinea) is interesting but it wont take long before it gets in the way of a European power and things end badly for it.
Anyone else is kinda out of the question. At the exception of a "Greater New Spain", that somehow manages to hold on to Louisiana, the whole of Florida, Central America, Cuba, Phillipines, and Venezuala (this is the greatest extent of all lands ever administered from Mexico City, although not all happened at once). But this is too much of a wank to take seriously.
A first world Chile (and Argentina) is possible but they would be just that: a first world country. Not a world power. If you need to know the difference in OTL Finland is a first world country but it is not a power by any means. China, which is not first world, is a power.
The idea of Argentina claiming the Governorate of Fernando Poo y Annobon (around Equatorial Guinea) is interesting but it wont take long before it gets in the way of a European power and things end badly for it.
Anyone else is kinda out of the question. At the exception of a "Greater New Spain", that somehow manages to hold on to Louisiana, the whole of Florida, Central America, Cuba, Phillipines, and Venezuala (this is the greatest extent of all lands ever administered from Mexico City, although not all happened at once). But this is too much of a wank to take seriously.
A first world Chile (and Argentina) is possible but they would be just that: a first world country. Not a world power. If you need to know the difference in OTL Finland is a first world country but it is not a power by any means. China, which is not first world, is a power.
I've always been under the impression that Portugal never really had significant control over its African colonies. Weren't the lusophone African countries de-facto politically autonomous during the latter 20th century?
I always thought that the Portuguese intervened in Angola and Mozambique when they finally learned that they were about to lose even nominal control of the colonies.
I always thought that the Portuguese intervened in Angola and Mozambique when they finally learned that they were about to lose even nominal control of the colonies.