Is it possible that the New Netherlands could've theoretically become its own Republic in the mold of the Dutch Republic?
PC: Independent New Netherlands?
- Thread starter Enigmajones
- Start date
Well possibly, yes. The thing is the Dutch republic had kind of a weird system. It basicly were 7 rather autonomous provinces, 1 semi-provinces and a couple of areas ruled by the estate-general.Those provinces (and the semi-provice) were autonomous in most areas and ruled by their lcal parliaments, but for some matter, like foreign affairs or militairy matters, they sent representatives to the estate-general were those things were decided. Except for the semi-province of Drenthe who, although it had its own parliament, could not sent representatives to the Estate-General. The Estate-General was basicly ruled by the province of Holland, the richest and most powerful provice and the other provinces would basicly have to accept whatever Holland wanted it. The members of the local parliaments (and thus the Estate-General) weren't elected, but were representatives of either the local nobility, the major cities or rich merchants. In Holland they usualy were the rich merchants and in the local parliament the representatives of Amsterdam (rich merchants) were the most influential people (and thus the most influential people in the whole of the Netherlands). Also there was a stadholder (sometimes), actualy there were two stadholders, as every province (and the semi-province) had one and they usualy were devided between two related families. The three northern provinces shared a stadholder and the other 5 too. The power of the stadholder depended on the character of the stadholder. Weak stadholders usualy had little, while strong had a lot. The rich merchants prefered not to have a stadholder, so they got rid of the stadholder twice (in Holland at least, the northern provinces kept theirs).
In short the Dutch republican system was complex, inefficient and extremely corrupt (especialy during the 18th century). I see no reason why the New Netherlands would be willing to copy it. Although I could see them working within it, trying to gain a semi-provincial status, like Drenthe, and later a provincial status and slowly moving towards independence and thus suddenly becoming independent while still having the inefficient trappings of the Dutch republic.
In short the Dutch republican system was complex, inefficient and extremely corrupt (especialy during the 18th century). I see no reason why the New Netherlands would be willing to copy it. Although I could see them working within it, trying to gain a semi-provincial status, like Drenthe, and later a provincial status and slowly moving towards independence and thus suddenly becoming independent while still having the inefficient trappings of the Dutch republic.
Colonies very rarely followed the same political structure of their parent. Whilst a republic is most likely given their republican roots, I can see the election of a strong single character whom would be incharge of the armed forces given that they had very aggressive neigbours to the south (the Brits).
It would be the army not the merchants who would weald the most power.
It would be the army not the merchants who would weald the most power.
The Dutch Republic was acon-federation in is pure form. The dis advantege over time was a central government, for daily matters.
All States (Provinces) were semi-autonomus exept on foreign affairs.
The best to compare it is with present day European Union only ith a ruling faction or State.
In case of the dutch Republic ths was the State of Holland and the city of Amsterdam, simply because they were contributing the bulk of the Republic finances.
New Holland, I assume you mean New Amsterdam ( New York) and the teritory around the Hudson river up North, was ruled on the same way as Amsterdam. These right were granted in 1656 by the Estates General. The city was ruled by a counsel and a mayor, but could be expended by more mayors, like Amsterdam.
The Colony it self would be governed on a simmilair way.
This could evolve in a democracy but could also evolve in a corrupt inefficien oriarchy like the republic become in the 18th century.
New Amsterdam had a difficult start (compared to the English settlements) mostly due to mismanagement and counterproductive regulations of the WIC, but when the influence of the WIC was removed and a city counsil was established the colony saw a significant economical and population growth. This growth almost never stoped so the influx of new colonist could be a guaranty that a true democratic system emerge or prevent an oliarchy.
All States (Provinces) were semi-autonomus exept on foreign affairs.
The best to compare it is with present day European Union only ith a ruling faction or State.
In case of the dutch Republic ths was the State of Holland and the city of Amsterdam, simply because they were contributing the bulk of the Republic finances.
New Holland, I assume you mean New Amsterdam ( New York) and the teritory around the Hudson river up North, was ruled on the same way as Amsterdam. These right were granted in 1656 by the Estates General. The city was ruled by a counsel and a mayor, but could be expended by more mayors, like Amsterdam.
The Colony it self would be governed on a simmilair way.
This could evolve in a democracy but could also evolve in a corrupt inefficien oriarchy like the republic become in the 18th century.
New Amsterdam had a difficult start (compared to the English settlements) mostly due to mismanagement and counterproductive regulations of the WIC, but when the influence of the WIC was removed and a city counsil was established the colony saw a significant economical and population growth. This growth almost never stoped so the influx of new colonist could be a guaranty that a true democratic system emerge or prevent an oliarchy.
New Netherlands could easily have become independant on its own. I even figured out a sutable POD a while back, and planned out the beginnings of a TL, but then Afghanistan rolled around and i never got beyond the initial planning.
Basically what happened IOTL is that a number of Influential inhabitants from New Amsterdam decided to get rid of the WIC the legal way and sent Adriaen van der Donck to seek redress in the States General. The States General was positive about this and granted a measure self governance, and recalled the WIC. However the first Anglo Dutch war erupted around that time, and the WIC and its troops were allowed to keep governance of the colony
But what if the war could've been delayed by a year, then suddenly the WIC will be gone, the cities with city rights would've raised their own Schutterijen (all cities in the Netherlands were required to raise one of these trained citizen militia's), Maybe get a number of warships stationed their for defence of the colony and of course solidify the warm relations between some native tribes (the Iroquois come to mind).
and later on, when the Netherlands is conquered by a foreign power suddenly New Netherland finds itself the sole remaining province.
Basically what happened IOTL is that a number of Influential inhabitants from New Amsterdam decided to get rid of the WIC the legal way and sent Adriaen van der Donck to seek redress in the States General. The States General was positive about this and granted a measure self governance, and recalled the WIC. However the first Anglo Dutch war erupted around that time, and the WIC and its troops were allowed to keep governance of the colony
But what if the war could've been delayed by a year, then suddenly the WIC will be gone, the cities with city rights would've raised their own Schutterijen (all cities in the Netherlands were required to raise one of these trained citizen militia's), Maybe get a number of warships stationed their for defence of the colony and of course solidify the warm relations between some native tribes (the Iroquois come to mind).
and later on, when the Netherlands is conquered by a foreign power suddenly New Netherland finds itself the sole remaining province.
New Holland is Australia. New Netherlands was the name. And yes I meant the Dutch controlled areas of what would become New York.
Actually I believe that Dutch Brasil was also known as New Holland. (also I think that New Jersey and parts of Delaware and even parts of Connecticut were part of the New Netherlands).
I think it is possible. it would even flourish during the 18th century, even more than her example in the Netherlands. It would be a trading and manufacturing center of the America's. The population would in majority every thing except Dutch, how ever this would be the lingua franca and administrative language (or some sort of Dutch language).
Let assume it came back under Dutch control in 1673 and would remain hat until the American revolution.
The city New Amsterdam and the colony New Netherlands would be during its entire existence be an example of an independent city and nation between the English colonies, were ever increasing discontent over taxes and tariffs without representation in Parliament would grew perhaps faster than OTL. It would be more independent and sovereign due to the complex confederate constitution of the dutch Republic, while the British constitution like other European nations tend to more centralist power concentration.
eventually it would be dragged in to the American Revolution, more or less in the same way as OTL the Dutch Republic was dragged in to it. Now not the Carabien island of St. Eustatius salute an American ship or the State of Friesland recognized the new nation but the city of New Amsterdam salute an American vessel. And/or New Amsterdam traders make big money for selling supplies and weapons to the rebels, which would be stopped by British force. This event or a bit later the annexation of the Dutch Republic by Napoleontic France could be the point of joining the United States of America.
Let assume it came back under Dutch control in 1673 and would remain hat until the American revolution.
The city New Amsterdam and the colony New Netherlands would be during its entire existence be an example of an independent city and nation between the English colonies, were ever increasing discontent over taxes and tariffs without representation in Parliament would grew perhaps faster than OTL. It would be more independent and sovereign due to the complex confederate constitution of the dutch Republic, while the British constitution like other European nations tend to more centralist power concentration.
eventually it would be dragged in to the American Revolution, more or less in the same way as OTL the Dutch Republic was dragged in to it. Now not the Carabien island of St. Eustatius salute an American ship or the State of Friesland recognized the new nation but the city of New Amsterdam salute an American vessel. And/or New Amsterdam traders make big money for selling supplies and weapons to the rebels, which would be stopped by British force. This event or a bit later the annexation of the Dutch Republic by Napoleontic France could be the point of joining the United States of America.
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It is just latin for New Netherlands. Belgium and Netherlands used to be synonims.
CivisOccidensSum
Banned
Independence from The Netherlands could be possible....but I don't see how this independent New Netherlands can avoid being swallowed up by British?
Simple, make sure the British don't want to or care for it. Make it a British ally for example. Or make it independent when the British aren't suurounding i, because either New England or the southern colonies (or both) are independent. Or make it so Dutch (in language or culture) the British aren't interested in it, but not dangerous enough to make them want to neutralise it.
The English Colonies were already rather busy with pissing of the Dutch colonies after the first Anglo-Dutch war, so a scenario that sees the limited self rule of the colony with the WIC expelled and the States General having final power might see parts of the States Army being employed together with mercenaries and Mohawk allies to expell the English settlers from the Dutch claims during the second Anglo-Dutch war (the first might have been a catalyst to create garrissons in America for the Dutch), thus stunting the Growth of New England, the Southern Colonies had cordial relations with New Amsterdam and environs so would survive unscathed
New Amsterdam was grated city right in 1657, this could be earlier but the man who plead for this, Mr van der Donckt was first arrested by the Governor and when he finally made his request to the State General, the 1st Anglo-Dutch war prevented this.
The influence and monopolies of the WIC were drastically reduced and the city start to flourish.
Only in1665 the city was occupied by the English and despite a short reconquest in 1673, returned in English hands.
Thing could be different when in 1673 the colony remained Dutch.
The city New Amsterdam and the colony New Netherlands would be during its entire existence be an example of an independent city and nation between the English colonies, were ever increasing discontent over taxes and tariffs without representation in Parliament would grew perhaps faster than OTL. While New Amsterdam and the surrounding territory would be more independent and sovereign due to the complex confederate constitution of the dutch Republic, while the British constitution like other European nations tend to more centralist power concentration.
The influence and monopolies of the WIC were drastically reduced and the city start to flourish.
Only in1665 the city was occupied by the English and despite a short reconquest in 1673, returned in English hands.
Thing could be different when in 1673 the colony remained Dutch.
The city New Amsterdam and the colony New Netherlands would be during its entire existence be an example of an independent city and nation between the English colonies, were ever increasing discontent over taxes and tariffs without representation in Parliament would grew perhaps faster than OTL. While New Amsterdam and the surrounding territory would be more independent and sovereign due to the complex confederate constitution of the dutch Republic, while the British constitution like other European nations tend to more centralist power concentration.