Pack Horses and mules in the U.S. Military

[wtw]

Your Challenge is to have the U.S. military keep using pack horses and mules like Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and other nations. To make them realize the helichopters are not the end all that be all in troop transport. Especially in mountianous terrian. That there is still a use for Horses and Mules.

 

[Driftless]

Part of the deal with horses and mules is they need their own logistical and support chain similar to motorized vehicles. Depending on the physical environment, sufficient potable water and forage may well have to be carrried along with the military goods. Veterinary & farrier care is required at frequent intervals too, along with additional remounts to replace wounded or dead animals. That becomes a bigger issue if horses and mules can't be easily commandeered in the local area - thinking of SE Asia, Korea, parts of the Middle East or Africa.

 

[wtw]

Part of the deal with horses and mules is they need their own logistical and support chain similar to motorized vehicles. Depending on the physical environment, sufficient potable water and forage may well have to be carrried along with the military goods. Veterinary & farrier care is required at frequent intervals too, along with additional remounts to replace wounded or dead animals. That becomes a bigger issue if horses and mules can't be easily commandeered in the local area - thinking of SE Asia, Korea, parts of the Middle East or Africa.

True, I do not doubt that is a problem and a legitimate issue, but then what is the reason why those nations still use those animals then? I am serious why would they still use them if they have such problems?

 

[Torqumada]

Your Challenge is to have the U.S. military keep using pack horses and mules like Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and other nations. To make them realize the helichopters are not the end all that be all in troop transport. Especially in mountianous terrian. That there is still a use for Horses and Mules.

You mean like in Afghanistan?

Torqumada

 

[RamscoopRaider]

Your Challenge is to have the U.S. military keep using pack horses and mules like Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and other nations. To make them realize the helichopters are not the end all that be all in troop transport. Especially in mountianous terrian. That there is still a use for Horses and Mules.

Uh the US Marines still do, or at least still train to use them, and I'm fairly sure the Army retains that capability as well

 

[wtw]

You mean like in Afghanistan?

Torqumada

yes, but for a more perment use

 

[wtw]

Uh the US Marines still do, or at least still train to use them, and I'm fairly sure the Army retains that capability as well

really I was not aware of that

 

[Driftless]

True, I do not doubt that is a problem and a legitimate issue, but then what is the reason why those nations still use those animals then? I am serious why would they still use them if they have such problems?

I agree they could be absolutely very useful in certain environments (see the above note about their use in Afghanistan), I'm just pointing out that there are challenges with them as well. The European countries you note, all have plentiful reasonably clean water readily available, as well as ample forage - that horses & mules can successfully eat. Horse digestive system is really fiinicky, and cholic is a prime killer of horses kept as pets or working ranch animals.

God knows horses have been used in war for thousands of years across the world. It's just that there's more to it than meets the eye.

 

[Driftless]

My bet with the animals used in Afghanistan, they are locally bought. They are already aclimatized to the physical environment: the water, the forage, and the local diseases and pests. You bring in outside animals, and you likely are dealing with higher mortality rates.

The experience Autstralian Light Horse unit from WW1 in the Middle East (I know it's a hundred years ago - but relatively modern war use)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Light_Horse

Care of horses in the Sinai campaign

1. The importance of early clipping in the autumn.
2. Identifying defects in forage and implementing appropriate remedies.
3. The importance of supervised watering.
4. Improvements in the sanitation of the horse lines.
5. Identifying shortage of head collars and grooming equipment.
6. Identifying overwork in some units due to insufficient numbers of horses.
7. Identifying faulty shoes and shoeing and shortages of shoeing tools.
8. Advice to prevent collar galls.
9. Advice to prevent wastage of horses due to debility by : -

Periodical rest and change of food and water after prolonged work in the desert.The systematic evacuation of all debility cases that did not improve after a week’s rest.The necessity of extra forage for mounted troops doing strenuous work when the nutritional value of the forage ration was reduced.The importance of night feeding.The prevention of waste in forage by the use of feeding sacks and nosebags.[1] Together with orders issued when serious faults were identified and as reminders, this information formed the basis for a small brochure on horse management in Egypt, which was issued to all units in the field.[1]
In 1916 the average loss of sick horses and mules from the Sinai front was approximately 640 per week. They were transported in train loads of thirty trucks, each holding eight horses. Animals which died or were destroyed while on active service were buried 2 miles (3.2 km) from the nearest camp unless this was not practicable. In this case the carcasses were transported to a suitable sites away from troops, where they were disemboweled and left to disintegrate in the dry desert air and high temperatures. Animals which died or were destroyed in veterinary units at Kantara, Ismalia, Bilbeis, and Quesna were dealt with in this way and after four days’ drying in the sun, the carcases were stuffed with straw and burnt, after the skins were salved. These were sold to local contractors.[2]

 

[wtw]

Thanks it does make sense in that context.

 

[vl100butch]

My bet with the animals used in Afghanistan, they are locally bought. They are already aclimatized to the physical environment: the water, the forage, and the local diseases and pests. You bring in outside animals, and you likely are dealing with higher mortality rates.

During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, I saw an article about a mule breeder in Missouri who put mules through a two week training course before they were sent on to support the mujhadeen (not sure on spelling)...the article talked about a thousand mules being sent...

Army Special Forces are still trained in using pack mules/horses...

 

[Driftless]

During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, I saw an article about a mule breeder in Missouri who put mules through a two week training course before they were sent on to support the mujhadeen (not sure on spelling)...the article talked about a thousand mules being sent...

Army Special Forces are still trained in using pack mules/horses...

Mules are tougher than horses. Did the article say anything about the plans for the mules once their service is done? Veterinary medicine is enormously more effective than 50-100 years ago, but I can bet there is concern about returning those animals to the US - diseases mainly. I believe (don't know for certain), that the Australians shot most/all of the horses that came with them from Australia to the Middle East, rather than risk allowing them to return diseases back to Australia.

I know I sound too much like "Debby-Downer", but I did own horses for about 20 years. One vet made the crack that " God designed horses wonderfully for running, but everything other part of their bodies are for sh!t" He was referring mainly to their fragile digestive and reproductive systems, but there you are. We used horses (in every sense of the word) for thousands of years, because there was nothing better for mobility

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, I saw an article about a mule breeder in Missouri who put mules through a two week training course before they were sent on to support the mujhadeen (not sure on spelling)...the article talked about a thousand mules being sent...

Found a magazine article on that two years ago. It claimed most of the mules sickened from local equine diseases in 2-3 years. The Afganis were put off by the size & feed requirements of the mules compared to the donkeys they were used to. There was speculation the physical decline of the mules was aggravated by poor rations. Most ended in the curry by three years the article implied.

This reminded me of some summaries of medical studies of German soldiers in North Africa and US soldiers in the South Pacific. In both cases the men had a usefull tour of 12 to fifteen months. by 18 months the typical Landser or GI was debilitated from disease and poor diet to the point where sending him back to Europe or the US was the best option. All this suggest that large mammals get sick a lot when you move them to new & distant locations.

 

[Tredecimus]

How about camels?

 

[Have Blue-117]

The Marines still train with horses and mules at the Mountain Warfare Training Center in Bridgeport, California from what I've heard.

 

[Simon]

Have the US keep some sort of cavalry unit about that also does ceremonial duties on horseback? That at least would allow you to keep a small retained core of use and knowledge to potentially build upon later.

 

[MattII]

The Marines still train with horses and mules at the Mountain Warfare Training Center in Bridgeport, California from what I've heard.

They run an animal packing course there. Of course, this kind of points to the fact that animal transport is going to be a niche market in any mechanised society.

 

[Airship_pirate1901]

Yes there is a unit in the First Cavalry Division that still uses horses for ceremonial duties and historical reenactments, I believe.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Have the US keep some sort of cavalry unit about that also does ceremonial duties on horseback? That at least would allow you to keep a small retained core of use and knowledge to potentially build upon later.

The sort of knowledge needed to use horses/mules in the field is very different from the skill set used for a ceremonial unit. The British Army, for example, has the HCMR and King's Troop, RHA, but they are not used as the centre of excellent for operational use of equines.

AFAIK the Defence Animals Centre is where that sort of knowledge was retained. Moreover even before Afghanistan British units in Cyprus used pack horses.