"Now Blooms the Tudor Rose."

[Space Oddity]

And now... the long-awaited scene from...

ASKE AWAY! (1975)

William of Orange enters the small room, looking around suspiciously.

WILLIAM: Hello? Monsier... Gerard? Etienne... Gerard? I heard you had news for me... vital news...

Jan van Aske steps out of the shadows, and levels his sword at the Prince's back.

JAN: Yes. Etienne Gerard is a pseudonym. My real name is Jan van Aske. Hello again, Stadtholder. It's been awhile. (chuckles) I knew that tale of Rhenish gold would bring you running. Somehow that famous self-control never happens when it's your debts, does it, Billy boy?

William stands straight and perfectly level.

WILLIAM: I suppose, Monsieur Aske, you've some foolish notion of revenge.

JAN: Oh, yes, but it's not foolish. We're going to His Highness, the Prince, and I am going to tell him a little tale of treason, plots with the Britons, and schemes in Poland that will have your head from your body.

WILLIAM: Will it now?

JAN: Well, he might just decide to get a little creative, something I leave to his discretion. (beat) Now come on. Move, and move quietly. Or I do the Prince's work for him. (The pair move together.) You're keeping calm.

WILLIAM: If you are right, I am all but dead. If you are wrong, I am most assuredly alive. I enjoy certainties. They make life easier.

JAN: That sounds downright... Calvinist, Stadtholder, for such a good Catholic.

William merely smiles. The pair exit the room together.

CUT TO: The door to a grand office.

JAN: (VO) Careful--careful--hands where I can see them...

WILLIAM: (VO) Then how exactly am I to open the door, pray tell?

JAN: (VO) Just no funny stuff!

The door opens. Jan strides into the room, William en tow.

JAN: Your Highness, I have many...!!!

He blinks.

CUT TO: The rest of the room. Adolf and Hendrick are there, as well as couple other men who are clearly Nassau siblings. There are also a pair of dark-haired twins, a few clearly baffled noblemen, and seated in a chair fanning himself as he reads a letter, PRINCE CHARLES OF SPAIN. Short--something that being seated only emphasizes--and hunchbacked his goggle-eyes are fixed on the letter, as his oversized jaw hangs open. On the whole, a rather unimpressing picture, even if he is very well-dressed. He glances at Jan briefly, then goes back to his letter.

Jan glances around the room, awkwardly.

JAN: Ummm... Yes. Hello. Your highness. Gentlemen.

Charles continues to look at Jan, just as awkwardly.

JAN: Your Highness... Your Highness, this man...

He gestures at where he thinks William is standing, realized he's moved and changes his hand, then realizes he's flashing around a sword, and puts it in its sheathe.

JAN: This man has damaged the interests of Spain... nay, the interests of Catholicism by plotting with the British to discredit Charles of Britain so as to make him ripe for a kidnapping attempt that would place him in the power of the Protestant Monarchy of...

Charles suddenly swats a fly, a snarl on his large mouth. He glances around the room.

CHARLES: (a raspy croak) Such flies we have here, in the Provinces. (shakes his head.) I tell you, when I left Madrid, I thought I was leaving the pests behind me--for we have very large flies in Madrid as well. But no... no... They are here too, flying about, and buzzing, buzzing, always buzzing...

Jan gulps, the vague impression that he's made an error here growing.

JAN: Your... Your Highness doesn't seem to understand the...

CHARLES: Buzz, buzz, buzz.

JAN: ...severity of...

CHARLES: Buzz, buzz.

JAN: The situa...

CHARLES: Buzz!

Jan winces.

JAN: You...?

CHARLES: (nodding) Me.

He stands up from his chair, to his full height--something that should be ridiculous, but manages to somehow be menacing.

CHARLES: That preceding sentence sounded suspiciously like an insult, Aske. And as those who know me would tell you I do not take insults lightly. Not even from my own kin. (Glances at one of the dark-haired twins) True, is it not, Alexander?

ALEXANDER: Oh, very true.

Jan gulps, and falls to his knees.

JAN: Oh, oh, please your Highness, no insult, no slight was meant at all, oh, please you must believe me...

Charles manages to loom over the kneeling Jan.

CHARLES: Oh, I do. The truth is you put me in a quandary, Aske. You just tried to betray me and my aims. On the other hand, the person you did so to was myself, which hints at loyalty. (shakes his head) I'm quite baffled.

JAN: Oh, I'm loyal sir! Ever so loyal! Very, very, very loyal!

Charles considers matters.

CHARLES: Very well. I believe you. (claps a hand on Jan's shoulder) Go forth, my son, and sin no more. Save when I ask you to.

Charles strolls back to the chair, and plops down on it, as Jan stands up and rushes to the door.

CHARLES: Oh, and speaking of the last... I may very well have need of you soon. (grins) So stay where I can get at you. Because rest assured--I can find you if you do otherwise.

Jan gulps, nods, and begins to open the door--then pauses.

JAN: Your Highness... I just have to ask... why? Why did...?

Charles idly fiddles with a goblet.

CHARLES: ...I destroy Charles Stuart? Interesting question.

With a sudden movement, he slams the goblet's cup over a fly. The sound of its buzzing as it tries to escape is heard in the background as he talks.

CHARLES: You know, this fly is probably trying to figure out what has happened to it, Aske. As it beats its head against what is to it an inescapable barrier, it is doubtless trying in its tiny fly mind, to understand what it all means. (looks at Aske) Do you think it even approaches the true answer?

The fly suddenly stops buzzing. Jan gulps and darts out the door. Charles looks at William.

CHARLES: I like him. He seems... useful.

Alexander snorts.

ALEXANDER: A bit of a coward.

CHARLES: Sometimes you need a coward.

William glances at the letter.

WILLIAM: Another love note from the Princess, Your Highness?

CHARLES: (nods) Indeed. She tells me such sweet things.

He stands again, and walks to a large globe, which he gives a spin.

CHARLES: Matters are coming to a head. Our friends are in place. We move swiftly.

He suddenly pulls a dagger out and uses it to check the globe's motion. The dagger rests on Spain and France.

CHARLES: The fate of Europe is in our hands, gentlemen. Because we have seized it. (beat) Je I'ay emprins!

OTHERS: Pretium laborum non vile! Non ailud!

Charles favors them all with a smile and a lordly nod.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

A Dr. Evil inspired "Buzz"

 

[jkarr]

Space_Oddity i request, nay demand!, that you take over Hollywood and actually bring some creativity back into the film industry!


Please ._.?

 

[St. Just]

Always nice to see more of Aske Away!

 

[Daztur]

Hmmmm, why would Charles care enough to move again the loser of Stuart? Look forward very much to seeing the answer.

 

[Blackadder mk 2]

We may not know the motives of discrediting the Lesser Stuart, unless the plan is to push the succession towards someone of greater ability, or the film is just creating a plan where there isn't one, but now we know who set it up like that. The more sinister tone this film is giving him seems to suggest a divide on the man, one side making him generally a nice guy, and another portraying him as a lot more sneaky and dodgy than the other. Maybe it's the split between nations, English-speaking ones looking more at the schemer.

Considering that he's friendly with the Guises, who are enemies of Tudor-friendly Wettins, I think we can see where the next European divide will be coming from as we set up the religious war lines again. Albert of Austria may join in with the other two, unless there's a mutual disdain going on, and it seems to be implied that France and Spain are going to fall into an alliance together, or at least have something new in common soon. The slightly more extreme view of Catholicism, compared to the Pope if his reluctance to end the Inquisition is anything to go by, may explain how the conflict begins to emerge once Henry IX starts doing a bit more for the Protestant cause, seeing as these conflicts don't seem to be nearing their end.

 

[Redolegna]

And as those who know me would tell you I do not take insults likely. Not even from my own kin.

Oooh. Now, with that dagger across two countries at once, that's some spooky foreshadowing. Considering this is Charles we're talking about, this ought to be good. But is this something he would actually say out loud or dramatization for the need of the movie?

And since this is my first post on this thread, I will say that I love this TL to bits. The snarky style makes for very engaging reading, the lovingly detailed and conflicting personalities drive the plot very well. Add to that the freaky happenings in Eastern Europe (from Transylvania to Russia) and the delightfully complicated going-ons in the HRE (plus the China-reaching butterflies) and this is a very nice new world you have created, Space Oddity.

 

[Space Oddity]

We may not know the motives of discrediting the Lesser Stuart, unless the plan is to push the succession towards someone of greater ability, or the film is just creating a plan where there isn't one, but now we know who set it up like that.

The Aske films and the books they're based on are very much speculative history ITTL, and likely exaggerating things. Still, there are reasons to suspect Charles MIGHT just have had something to do with this. Reasons that will likely become obvious in the near future.

Oooh. Now, with that dagger across two countries at once, that's some spooky foreshadowing. Considering this is Charles we're talking about, this ought to be good. But is this something he would actually say out loud or dramatization for the need of the movie?

Very much dramatic representation. Though ITTL Charles does have a habit of 'I don't believe he actually said that--and got away with it' statements himself.

And since this is my first post on this thread, I will say that I love this TL to bits. The snarky style makes for very engaging reading, the lovingly detailed and conflicting personalities drive the plot very well. Add to that the freaky happenings in Eastern Europe (from Transylvania to Russia) and the delightfully complicated going-ons in the HRE (plus the China-reaching butterflies) and this is a very nice new world you have created, Space Oddity.

Much obliged.

 

[Blackadder mk 2]

The Aske films and the books they're based on are very much speculative history ITTL, and likely exaggerating things. Still, there are reasons to suspect Charles MIGHT just have had something to do with this. Reasons that will likely become obvious in the near future.

Figleafs to the Hamiltons, or perhaps the family doing him a solid? It'll be interesting to see what'll happen. Whatever it is, I have the feeling that the action, or even the assumption that Charles did something, will be what lends the spark to the rivalry between Arthur (and his apparently far less impressive brother) and Charles Maria in later years.

One thing I like about this TL is that you don't hesitate to show the flaws in even the better and successful figures of this TL. Henry IX is charismatic and a strong ruler, but doesn't seem to react well to things that he doesn't like and can't ignore (then again, what Tudor did IOTL), Charles Hapsburg has a knack for pressing buttons of people who he dislikes, and even Ferdinand's struggle with depression means that his rule often sharply switches from pragmatic if nothing legendary to complete meltdown. It makes the work feel more real, as if this people could have existed, rather than giving into the urge to make someone perfect for the sake of the plot, and makes you curious about what's going to happen next.

Janos II is one of my favourites, mostly as I don't know if the dream will come crashing down, or if his bright-eyed optimism will somehow win the day with the aid of everyone else making calculations that benefit him.

Not to mention the apparent issue in Japan, where Nobunaga and Shingen may find themselves close allies with Matsunaga's paranoia/need to validate his position. I do wonder where Kenshin Uesugi will land in such a conflict, he disliked Shingen for the man's ambition (in comparison to his apparent lack of it, not taking lands from other rulers when intervening in situations), but he doesn't seem the type to allow Matsunaga to get away with attacking large daimyo. Perhaps a Miyoshi/Uesugi alliance against Oda/Takeda, with the Christian Daimyos as a separate conflict, as the Azai and Asakura are the wild-cards in the conflict.

 

[Space Oddity]

And now--a photo still from The Little Prince!

Charles and Elizabeth in an intimate moment.

 

[Brainbin]

What fun! More costume dramas!

WILLIAM: If you are right, I am all but dead. If you are wrong, I am most assuredly alive. I enjoy certainties. They make life easier.

JAN: That sounds downright... Calvinist, Stadtholder, for such a good Catholic.

William merely smiles. The pair exit the room together.

Foreshadowing, I wonder?

CUT TO: The rest of the room. Adolf and Hendrick are there, as well as couple other men who are clearly Nassau siblings. There are also a pair of dark-haired twins, a few clearly baffled noblemen, and seated in a chair fanning himself as he reads a letter, PRINCE CHARLES OF SPAIN. Short--something that being seated only emphasizes--and hunchbacked his goggle-eyes are fixed on the letter, as his oversized jaw hangs open. On the whole, a rather unimpressing picture, even if he is very well-dressed. He glances at Jan briefly, then goes back to his letter.

Speaking as someone who's obviously interested in the behind-the-scenes nature of productions, I'm curious as to the appearance of the actor playing Cawwos in real life. Short shouldn't be a stretch (ha!) - there are plenty of short actors. But the rest sounds like it would necessitate plenty of time in the makeup chair. The Hunchback of Notre Dame might be an informative comparison. The gentlemen who played that role in major film productions IOTL were: Lon Chaney (1923); Charles Laughton (1939) - who, BTW, won an Oscar for playing Henry VIII; and Anthony Quinn (1956).

JAN: This man has damaged the interests of Spain... nay, the interests of Catholicism by plotting with the British to discredit Charles of Britain so as to make him ripe for a kidnapping attempt that would place him in the power of the Protestant Monarchy of...

Charles of Britain? Very interesting... I suspect this might be an anachronism on the part of the creative staff of Aske Away!

CHARLES: Buzz, buzz, buzz.

JAN: ...severity of...

CHARLES: Buzz, buzz.

JAN: The situa...

CHARLES: Buzz!

Nice to see he's as eloquent as ever (I agree with Darth_Kiryan; I definitely got some Austin Powers flashbacks here.)

He stands up from his chair, to his full height--something that should be ridiculous, but manages to somehow be menacing.

It can be very menacing if you have the right camera angle.

He suddenly pulls a dagger out and uses it to check the globe's motion. The dagger rests on Spain and France.

Now that's definitely foreshadowing. I'm reminded of the close-up of Captain Renault's "Vichy Water" before he throws it into the trash in disgust - it's about that subtle.

And now--a photo still from The Little Prince!

Charles and Elizabeth in an intimate moment.

IOTL, a production still from Laurence Olivier's 1955 film of Richard III, with Olivier as Richard III and Claire Bloom as Anne Neville.

 

[Space Oddity]

What fun! More costume dramas!

Foreshadowing, I wonder?

It's more that William's loud proclamations of what a good Catholic he is are generally seen as a rather blatant pose.

Speaking as someone who's obviously interested in the behind-the-scenes nature of productions, I'm curious as to the appearance of the actor playing Cawwos in real life. Short shouldn't be a stretch (ha!) - there are plenty of short actors. But the rest sounds like it would necessitate plenty of time in the makeup chair. The Hunchback of Notre Dame might be an informative comparison. The gentlemen who played that role in major film productions IOTL were: Lon Chaney (1923); Charles Laughton (1939) - who, BTW, won an Oscar for playing Henry VIII; and Anthony Quinn (1956).

And Anthony Hopkins in 1982.

And that said, it wouldn't be THAT elaborate. More your traditional Richard III style makeup.

Charles of Britain? Very interesting... I suspect this might be an anachronism on the part of the creative staff of Aske Away!

Just slightly, though the term is tossed around.

After all, it is Charles of Spain, not Charles of Castile-Leon and Aragon.

Now that's definitely foreshadowing. I'm reminded of the close-up of Captain Renault's "Vichy Water" before he throws it into the trash in disgust - it's about that subtle.

Sometimes, you don't need subtlety.

But yeah, Charles has got big, big, BIG plans.

IOTL, a production still from Laurence Olivier's 1955 film of Richard III, with Olivier as Richard III and Claire Bloom as Anne Neville.

Yep.

Not as good as his Henry V, but... interesting.

 

[Space Oddity]

And now, a little something extra that will give us a peek into the future...

A FLOWER FIT FOR A PRINCE

A Charlemagne Augustus Turkish Lily

"...Arriving in Europe from the east in the late 16th century, the 'Turkish Lily' would in the eyes of many connoisseurs outshine its European cousin, becoming the preferred flower of the Hapsburg court of Brussels... Prince Charles Maria is said to have called it 'The Flower of Flowers', and adopted the Charlemagne Augustus variety as one of his personal badges..."

 

[St. Just]

"...Arriving in Europe from the east in the late 16th century, the 'Turkish Lily' would in the eyes of many connoisseurs outshine its European cousin, becoming the preferred flower of the Hapsburg court of Brussels... Prince Charles Maria is said to have called it 'The Flower of Flowers', and adopted the Charlemagne Augustus variety as one of his personal badges..."

Hmmm... so the tulip gets a different name, and the mania Dutch folk have for it is centered around something different...

And there is a Habsburg court in Brussels, suggesting either that Spain and Burgundy split (Philip II disinherits Charles of Asturias) or that court is moved to Burgundy (perhaps the Caroline Habsburgs reclaim Spain at some point?)

 

[Space Oddity]

Hmmm... so the tulip gets a different name, and the mania Dutch folk have for it is centered around something different...

Not as much as you might think. If tulipomania occurs, it'll probably be quite similar to what occurred IOTL. Aristocratic fondness actually proceeded the craze.

And there is a Habsburg court in Brussels, suggesting either that Spain and Burgundy split (Philip II disinherits Charles of Asturias) or that court is moved to Burgundy (perhaps the Caroline Habsburgs reclaim Spain at some point?)

Technically, there were Habsburg courts in Brussels for most of the 17th century IOTL, ruled by junior members of the line.

Of course, whether that's the case here remains to be seen...

 

[St. Just]

Not as much as you might think. If tulipomania occurs, it'll probably be quite similar to what occurred IOTL. Aristocratic fondness actually proceeded the craze.

Ah, gotcha.

Technically, there were Habsburg courts in Brussels for most of the 17th century IOTL, ruled by junior members of the line.

Of course, whether that's the case here remains to be seen...

Didn't know about that OTL, actually.

 

[Daztur]

My guess is that Charles predeceases his father and his son inherits.

 

[Thoresby]

Hasn't it been said earlier that he never becomes King of Spain. Or am I imaging that?

 

[Shiva]

Hasn't it been said earlier that he never becomes King of Spain. Or am I imaging that?

Never outright stated but in the history quotes he's always referred to as 'Prince' and there's mention of a 'Charles VI of Naples' in the 1600's which would have been Prince Charles's his title should he have inherited Naples.

Now that would imply that the inheritance was split, BUT of the three candidates Prince Charles's sons are Charles Maria and Charles Ferdinand along with his mentally challenged brother Ferdinand. There's also a version of Isabella Clara Eugenia who's married to someone in Portugal.

Unless Queen Lenore gives Philip some more kids that's pretty much the Spanish royal family.

 

[Space Oddity]

There's also a version of Isabella Clara Eugenia who's married to someone in Portugal.

Isabella Clara Eugenia--who really isn't that much like her OTL half-sibling of the same name, especially in appearance--is engaged to her cousin Leander, King of Portugal.

Who is her first cousin by his mother, and her first cousin twice removed by her mother.

Those nutty Iberians.