Not Another Byzantine Timeline! - Interest Thread

Which PoD would you like to see done?

  • A different reign of Justinian II

    Votes: 21 21.4%
  • Nicephorus Logothetes avoid Pliska, conquers Bulgaria

    Votes: 13 13.3%
  • Thomas the Slav succeeds in his rebellion and takes the throne

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • John Tzimiskes lives longer, continues his conquests

    Votes: 14 14.3%
  • Romanus Diogenes wins at the Battle of Manzikert

    Votes: 45 45.9%

  • Total voters
    98
As summer approaches and my real life obligations start to wind down, I find myself wanting start another timeline. My first was Triumph of the Gael (in my signature below) where I tackled Brian Boru surviving the Battle of Clontarf. While I enjoyed creating the timeline, I felt the niche nature of it prevented it from appealing to a wider audience and ultimately I lost my enthusiasm. This time, as an avowed fan of early Byzantine history, I wish to write a timeline on the subject - although I haven’t decided firmly on a PoD.

Byzantine timelines are pretty popular on this forum considering how many possibilities there were and how everyone loves anything Roman. I don’t want to write on an overdone topic so I figured I would focus on the period specifically between the collapse of the Empire at the hands of the Arab invasions to the reign of Alexios I Komnenos (with a bias to the earlier portion on that timescale). Also, for this timeline, I don’t intend for it to be a Byzantine wank. I think I want to write a fairly realistic and plausible timeline with its ups and downs for the fortunes of the Romans.

My current ideas are as follows:

Wrath of the Heraclians - In 695, Emperor Justinian II, last ruler of the line of Heraclius, was overthrown and had his nose slit before the jeering crowds of the Hippodrome. Dragged off on a ship into exile in the Crimea, Justinian would return in 705 at the head of a Bulgarian army and reconquer his rightful throne. He would rule for 6 more years, becomingly increasing cruel and paranoid, until he was finally overthrown and executed - thus ending the bloodline of Emperor Heraclius. But what if he had ruled more moderately and continued the lavish projects that he had began in his first reign?

Pax Nichephori - Emperor Nicephorus I was a capable ruler of the Byzantines who attempted to subdue the Bulgar threat in the 9th century. His campaign went quite well and the domain of Khan Krum hung in the balance - until the Khan ambushed Nicephorus’ army in the mountain passes at Pliska and annihilated it. What if that hasn’t happened and Nicephorus continued his campaigns against the Bulgars and sweeping reforms of the Roman government?

A Hermits’ Prophecy - Thomas the Slav raised the standard of revolt against Michael the Amorian in 820 after the murder of the Emperor Leo. This rebellion, one of the largest in Byzantine history, saw Thomas march across Anatolia, meet the Abbasid Caliph, besiege Constantinople itself, and fight a protracted and bloody civil war until his ultimate failure and death in 823. What if Thomas the Slav had succeeded in ousting Michael and instead established his own dynasty?

The Sword of the East - John Tzimiskes, one of the best generals in Byzantine history, followed in the footsteps of his predecessor Nicephorus II and led wars of conquest on the Eastern frontier. He penetrated deep into Syria and even could have attacked Baghdad if he had chose to do so. Tzimiskes would have greatly expanded the eastern frontier, had he not died suddenly in 976. What would have happened if this great general continued at the helm? Would Basil II ever reign?

A Blood Soaked Sword - The Battle of Manzikert fought in 1071 is one of the great focal points of Byzantine history. The empire stood, territorially speaking, at its greatest extent in centuries. Emperors had campaigned for generations in both east and west to secure this prosperous Roman state. Then the Turks arrived in the East. A series of weak Emperors could not or would not deal with the growing Turkish threat to the Eastern Provinces. Finally, in 1068, the Empress Eudokia Makrembolitissa married a provincial military general by the name of Romanus Diogenes and elevated him to the purple. Romanus, seeking to prove himself domestically and militarily, sought out battle with the Turks and marched a massive army East. There, in 1071, he would be betrayed by his own commander and subsequently defeated in battle. After that, Byzantine Rule would never return that far east and Romanus himself would be cruelly blinded and left to die by political rivals. What if Romanus had emerged victorious, fought off the Turkish threat, and established a new dynasty on the Byzantine throne?

So, ladies and gentlemen, please vote on the poll which of the PoDs you would like to see a timeline on sometime in the near future. If you have any different ideas for a PoD you would like to see, please comment that as well - it could be something I hadn’t heard of or considered. Cheers!
 
Wrath of the Heraclians - In 695, Emperor Justinian II, last ruler of the line of Heraclius, was overthrown and had his nose slit before the jeering crowds of the Hippodrome. Dragged off on a ship into exile in the Crimea, Justinian would return in 705 at the head of a Bulgarian army and reconquer his rightful throne. He would rule for 6 more years, becomingly increasing cruel and paranoid, until he was finally overthrown and executed - thus ending the bloodline of Emperor Heraclius. But what if he had ruled more moderately and continued the lavish projects that he had began in his first reign?

Let the dynasty that saw the fall of much of the empire see its return.
 
Voted for Justinian II however I also have a suggestion: Justinian’s son survives and later comes back during the reign of the Isaurians for his revenge.

That’s actually an interesting idea - son takes after his father. Byzantine history also has a recurring incident where the supposed son of a dead and deposed ruler will show up and foment rebellion (even if it’s not always true like this eccentric guy).

It’d definitely be interesting to see how the Heraclians would respond to Iconoclasm. If a pretender appeared promising to restore the Icons I’m sure they would find quite large popular support.
 
Definitely. It would also be interesting to see how they would react to the situation in Italy. They don't really need to neglect the East in order to focus on the West, just religiously appease the Italics and maybe have the emperor spend some time among them.
 

trajen777

Banned
Love byz tl.. On board .... John is an excellent choice. His victory vs Bulgaria and the rus, his sweep to soften up Syria be going all the way to Damascas, then prepareing for further conquests:

1 974/5 takes Damascas
2 976 takes the rest of Bulgaria
3 977 - 80 takes Syria and Jerusalem as well as the ports

Now you have raids vs Baghdad, Sicily, Egypt ?

Or Justinian 2 .... Make him a better general, and have more loyal Slavs resettled in Anatolia. Have more troops sent to defend cartage.

Lots of options.
 
I voted for the last one, Manzikert. I am curious to know how Anatolia would develop. Would it become another extension of Armenia? Would the Romaioi successfully repopulate the interior with Greek speaking peoples? Would Opsikion become a world power?
 
To all the ideas,Justinian II and John Tzimiskes are good but all have used(although not finish).Then I think Nicephorus I has more chance and Romanus Diogenes didn't.
 
How about No Phocas and a split of the Empire between Maurice and Heraclius?

I would write a timeline pre-Arab Invasion but I feel like those have too much potential to become wanks. Plus most of my knowledge of the Byzantine Empire falls after Yarmouk so I don't think I could give it justice.
 
As a side note, Phokas conquering Bulgaria butterflies away the emergence of a Bulgarian national identity, as ITTL there is no independent Christianization with a distinct Bulgarian Church or slavonic lithurgy. Moreover the Bulgars seem to still have been ethnically distinct (Turkic-speaking, Tengri) from their subjects and their rule south of the Danube had been limited more or less to Moesia.
 
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