Northern Star, a timeline with a united Scandinavia

[Oddball]

?Would there be Protestants? This is going to Butterfly the heck out of the HRE. there may not be a Martin Luther. or a John Calvin.

and If there is someone like, they may not be as lucky to have the Noble protectors that ML & JC had.

Ofcourse there will be protestants. In the prologue to TTL I have stated that Im going with a limited butterfly effect. I just dont belive in the chaos theory to its full extent, sorry

So the small changes I have made so far and will make until the reformation, will not change that

 

[Oddball]

congratulations oddball, you really can make it appear as if one's reading a history book. your parsimony is evident, in this modest bite on slesvig territory.

I hadn't thought of this solution to the problem. Very well thought.

Well both your statements could come from the fact that TTL realy aint much different from OTL so far

Besides the internal "joy and happines" and the merchant/naval development ofcourse...

 

[Oddball]

..., as Erik of Pomerania isnt there to start the war against the hansa.
novgorod has to wait a bit more.

A Kalmar timeline, goody! I'd really like to see some resolution to the Schleswig-Holstein thing, ...

2) Going eastward the Republic of Novgorod was an old trading partner doomed to fall before Moscow. How about a little support or simply have a fairly large area including the Kola Penninsula being absorbed? Likewise when the Teutonics go down, the Scandinavians should be there.

The Hanseatic League, Novgorod and Slesvig will be dealt with eventualy, rest assured. Patience my friends

The Teutonic Order also. Curses on their house for still occupying crown lands on Gotland...

 

[Gustav Þorsson]

hey oddball, how will be the scandinavian name for their future united country? I was only wondering... do you already have any idea?

 

[Fyrwulf]

Well, as Oddball has indicated that there won't be any megalomaniacal empire-building, why not the Kingdom of Karita? Karita means "loving and benevolent", and I don't think there's any city anywhere in Scandinavia named that, so no implied favoratism.

 

[Gustav Þorsson]

Well, as Oddball has indicated that there won't be any megalomaniacal empire-building, why not the Kingdom of Karita? Karita means "loving and benevolent", and I don't think there's any city anywhere in Scandinavia named that, so no implied favoratism.

I think the name should be more representative, to either the region (like España, Italia, Nederland) or the people (Deutschland, England). So more probably names are Skandinavia (as Skandinavien is a german name) or Skandia, or Nordland or Norrland. Any other suggestion?

 

[Swede]

So more probably names are Skandinavia (as Skandinavien is a german name) or Skandia, or Nordland or Norrland. Any other suggestion?

Skandinavien is a German name? So why do we use it ourselves?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Skandinavien is a German name? So why do we use it ourselves?

I vote for Skandinavia (Skandinavien), Skandia sounds too much like Scania or Skane.. Of course if a union capital where established in that region at some point...Is Skandia a Roman name? oh, and I expect this is United Kingdoms of.....right eventually. Of course there is always the cumbersome United Kingdoms of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Danemark,Sverige und Norge) until a formal union gov't is formed.

Kalmar mind you would be close..so would an analog to Goteborg

 

[DuQuense]

Skandinavien is a German name? So why do we use it ourselves?

In the 1840~60's You were looking for a name to describe both the Nordic and the Finnish parts, And some German Magizine articles Started using Scandivia , and the name stuck.

 

[Swede]

^It's the other way round. Skandinavien means the three kingdoms, Norden all five countries (i.e., 3K + Iceland & Finland). But for us to adopt a German name for womthing isn't that strange, happened all the time for centuries afaik.

And an analog of Göteborg is pretty much an ideal site for a new Union capital (much as it pains a Stockholmare to say it )

iirc Scania is (modern) Latin for Skåne. not sure what area was ment in roman times...

 

[Oddball]

Well, as Oddball has indicated that there won't be any megalomaniacal empire-building, why not the Kingdom of Karita? Karita means "loving and benevolent", and I don't think there's any city anywhere in Scandinavia named that, so no implied favoratism.

Christ! Even if there will not be any megalomaniacal empire-building, it is not going to be "loving and benevolent"

 

[Oddball]

Names and capital

Regarding future name, I suggest pondering what Olav IV had in mind when he named his "private" trading company

OTOH Im very open to this question, as Im not quite satisfied with what Iv got so far. Please come up with good suggestions.
Btw, "Kingdom of Karita" aint a good suggestion...

Regarding capital city IMHO its either Copenhagen or Lund. This is due to population density. Gothenburg is a nice location, but does not excist at this point, and building a new city is out of bounds at this point.

I choosed Copenhagen because I wanted to focus on naval stuff, and thus found it helpful to locate a city with harbour in the middle of a important sea lane. If not I would have taken Lund


PS. Wicipedia have a nice article about Scandinavia and the etymology of its name. IMHO a well balaced article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

 

[Fabilius]

Well could scandinavia be used. It was clearly already used as a term for this geographical area, and since it´s used mostly by foreigners one wonders whether at least foreigners might refer to it like that.

Le royaume de la Scandinavia
The kingdom of Scandinavia

I can easily picture the french and english referring to Kalmar union like that. But at that time I don´t think the scandinavians themselves referred to their homeland as part of scandinavia.

Perhaps, since the name has not been taken at that point, it could be called The united kingdoms. The UK, this is extremely plausible I think, since when Britain is called UK because it unites the kingdoms Scotland, England and Wales. (most importantly though Scotland and England, England already had Wales before therewas a true union with Scotland)

This would be a little strange... but doesn´t sound wrong.

This is my suggestion, hope you get more ideas. Maybe you should start an alternate names thread.

 

[Fyrwulf]

You have no sense for the ironic. Fine, let's try these out; Viktor, which means "The Conqueror"; Vilhehn, which means "a strong protector"; Konstantin, which means "steadfast".

If you don't like those, why not the Kingdom of Sjaelland? The island is right between Jutland and Sweden, which makes it centrally located, plus it has Copenhagen (the proposed capital).

 

[Oddball]

Argh

You have no sense for the ironic. Fine, let's try these out; Viktor, which means "The Conqueror"; Vilhehn, which means "a strong protector"; Konstantin, which means "steadfast".

If you don't like those, why not the Kingdom of Sjaelland? The island is right between Jutland and Sweden, which makes it centrally located, plus it has Copenhagen (the proposed capital).

Im truly sorry if I offended you with my replies. That was NOT my intention

To my defense I added a few smileys to indicate that I DO have a sense of irony

 

[Max Sinister]

Scandia was used in medieval times (if not earlier) for Scandinavia.

 

[Gustav Þorsson]

I think that København would be the best choice for the capital city.
but I was thinking, if the icelandic writings would be used to form the basis written language, how would be spelled that name? Well, the ancient name was Kjøbmandehavn, I don't know when this name was no more used.
and, for you swedes, remember that low german had a heavy influence over your language, another legacy of the Hansa. danish was also heavy influenced. the norwegians gradually lost their language in favour to danish.
so, if Skania (or the name that they would call it) get to minimize the Hansa's influence, as it would happen if the country get richer, more stable and better structured, and if these icelandic writings were recovered, the most probably would be that the scandinavian language turns very different from the today's mainland scandinavian languages. at the time norwegian was much similar to icelandic and the other atlantic scandinavian languages. so there would be no terrain to low-german's influence.

 

[Gustav Þorsson]

And what about the flag? I would propose the swedish flag; besides being the most beautiful, it would balance the fact of København (a danish city) being the capital and the language being west-scandinavian, derivated from norwegian and coming from norwegian territory. The swedes sure would be pleased with this.

 

[Nicole]

And what about the flag? I would propose the swedish flag; besides being the most beautiful, it would balance the fact of København (a danish city) being the capital and the language being west-scandinavian, derivated from norwegian and coming from norwegian territory. The swedes sure would be pleased with this.

Wasn't there a Kalmar Union flag?

 

[Gustav Þorsson]

Wasn't there a Kalmar Union flag?

There was, apparently, but I'm not sure that it had much prestige at the time. And besides that, it is identical to the Orknøyene's flag. Well, if Olav, and not Erik of Pomerania, is king, then some events would draw a little bit different. Most probably this flag had been set after real Olav's death, so it would not be a problem having it changed.