As in the title. What alternate names could fit to Morocco in various languages, mainly Romance, Punic and Berber ?
Non-Arabic names for Morocco and other Maghrebi states
- Thread starter Chrzęścimir
- Start date
Some version of Mauretania is obvious as that's what the romans called it and that worked for Britain and Spain among others.
Or alternatively England and France are named the tribes that occupied it post roman empire so you might see Vandalia or the like. That's kind of where Barbary comes from, land of the barbarians, with the berbers only called post vandal conquest (prior to the vandal conquest the berbers were called the Mauri: hence Mauretania.
And the English name Morocco comes from the city of Marrakech so it's not unreasonable to assume a name based on another major city like Tingitana for tangiers.
Or alternatively England and France are named the tribes that occupied it post roman empire so you might see Vandalia or the like. That's kind of where Barbary comes from, land of the barbarians, with the berbers only called post vandal conquest (prior to the vandal conquest the berbers were called the Mauri: hence Mauretania.
And the English name Morocco comes from the city of Marrakech so it's not unreasonable to assume a name based on another major city like Tingitana for tangiers.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I second Clandango's suggestion of Mauretania. I suggest Tingitana as an alternative. Could also be named Mur N Akush by the local Berbers, which Morocco is derived from.
Well, if Total War : Attila did any of its research right, we have
Mauritania (or Mauritania Tingitana, Mauritania Caesariensis and Mauritania Sitifensis from West to East)
Zeugitana
Byzacena
Africa
Tripolitania
The three in bold are the best analogues. Mauritania to Morocco and Algeria, Africa to Tunisia, and Tripolitania as Libya. (Although Libya isn't an African name, AFAIK it is actually egyptian)
Mauritania (or Mauritania Tingitana, Mauritania Caesariensis and Mauritania Sitifensis from West to East)
Zeugitana
Byzacena
Africa
Tripolitania
The three in bold are the best analogues. Mauritania to Morocco and Algeria, Africa to Tunisia, and Tripolitania as Libya. (Although Libya isn't an African name, AFAIK it is actually egyptian)
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Numidia might be a name used if a European power had conq
Numidia can also apply to Algeria.
Numidia can also apply to Algeria.
Indeed, if the regions were christianized, chances are they'd adopt the Roman name if the regions in question, therefore:
Morocco: Mauritania, with Fes, should it be it's own separate state being Tingitana.
Algeria: Numidia
Tunisia: Africa
Tripoli: Tripolitania
and then there's Cyrenaica, the eastern half of Libya.
Morocco: Mauritania, with Fes, should it be it's own separate state being Tingitana.
Algeria: Numidia
Tunisia: Africa
Tripoli: Tripolitania
and then there's Cyrenaica, the eastern half of Libya.
I thought that Libya was actually of Greek origin and originally referred to the entire continent, while Africa was just the region from Constantine east to Tripoli. The two names eventually managed to flip flop.
What if Aragon or Sicily managed to incorporate a lot into their lands during an (oddly overly successful) Crusades? Could get various Kingdoms named after the capital cities.
Mauretania, or alternatively Mauritania. I've always liked the former to distinguish it from today's Mauritania which was never even part of historic Mauretania.
Algeria would be Numidia, since that was the historic name for it. Or named after a major port (like Algeria is), of which there are numerous choices. The one directly related to Algeria would be something related to Icosium, Algiers's pre-Arab name, even though I don't think Icosium was a major port in Antiquity compared to other cities in Roman North Africa.
Modern Tunisia (an early modern construct), in addition to Zeugitana or Byzacena, could be Punica, since it was the heartland of Punic culture, language, and influence. Or something named after Carthage, since after all, Tunisia is named for Carthage's successor Tunis.
The entire Maghreb could be called Libya, since it historically was. The term could change meaning from "all Africa" to the "lands inhabited by the Libyans", which would make it the Maghreb. Alternatively, something based on the Berbers, like Numidia, or based on a post-Roman state that manages to rule the whole region.
For Punic, I'm not actually sure to what degree the Punic language was spoken in what became Morocco--it was never as well incorporated into the Roman system that allowed Punic to spread in the post-Carthage era. And post-Carthage Punic had a tendancy toward Latin loanwords. So it's something that would end up amounting to Mauretania in the end.
And of course a name based on the Vandals (like France or England). Since Punic (and I believe most Berber languages) doesn't have a /v/ sound (and nor does Arabic for the most likely group to influence the region and its languages in the post-Roman era), I like the idea of the name shifting from "Vandalia" to become "Andalia" in the same linguistic process that created the term "Andalusia". If the Vandal kingdom survives and gains another burst of energy akin to one that put it there in the first place, the term "Andalia" could refer to the whole of the region. Either way, "Andalia" could easily survive to designate a region within North Africa.
The Mauri were only one Berber tribe. There's a couple others which have names cognate to "Amazigh", the word Berbers called themselves. And of course, "Numidians", the term the Romans knew most Berbers by.
Algeria would be Numidia, since that was the historic name for it. Or named after a major port (like Algeria is), of which there are numerous choices. The one directly related to Algeria would be something related to Icosium, Algiers's pre-Arab name, even though I don't think Icosium was a major port in Antiquity compared to other cities in Roman North Africa.
Modern Tunisia (an early modern construct), in addition to Zeugitana or Byzacena, could be Punica, since it was the heartland of Punic culture, language, and influence. Or something named after Carthage, since after all, Tunisia is named for Carthage's successor Tunis.
The entire Maghreb could be called Libya, since it historically was. The term could change meaning from "all Africa" to the "lands inhabited by the Libyans", which would make it the Maghreb. Alternatively, something based on the Berbers, like Numidia, or based on a post-Roman state that manages to rule the whole region.
For Punic, I'm not actually sure to what degree the Punic language was spoken in what became Morocco--it was never as well incorporated into the Roman system that allowed Punic to spread in the post-Carthage era. And post-Carthage Punic had a tendancy toward Latin loanwords. So it's something that would end up amounting to Mauretania in the end.
And of course a name based on the Vandals (like France or England). Since Punic (and I believe most Berber languages) doesn't have a /v/ sound (and nor does Arabic for the most likely group to influence the region and its languages in the post-Roman era), I like the idea of the name shifting from "Vandalia" to become "Andalia" in the same linguistic process that created the term "Andalusia". If the Vandal kingdom survives and gains another burst of energy akin to one that put it there in the first place, the term "Andalia" could refer to the whole of the region. Either way, "Andalia" could easily survive to designate a region within North Africa.
The Mauri were only one Berber tribe. There's a couple others which have names cognate to "Amazigh", the word Berbers called themselves. And of course, "Numidians", the term the Romans knew most Berbers by.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
Tunisia : Efricia/ Vandalia/Punicia
Algeria: Numidia/ Artawia
Morrocco: Moritania/ Maretaya/Tingitania/Siftia
Tripolitania+Phasania-Cyrenaica= Libia
Algeria: Numidia/ Artawia
Morrocco: Moritania/ Maretaya/Tingitania/Siftia
Tripolitania+Phasania-Cyrenaica= Libia
If Mauretania would be surogate word for Morocco, what would be for OTL Mauretania ?
Yep. Best option.
But others--Western Sahara, a precolonial state (like Trarza), an ancient city (Aoudaghost, Oulata, etc.), a modern city (Mauretania-Nouakchott?), a region of the country (Adrar), a river (Senegal)--difficult, but there's plenty of options.
TheSlovakPatriot
Banned
And Ghana could go under the name Ashanti or Gold Coast (maybe a native translation of the name )
Ghana wouldn't call itself Ashanti; that would piss off the Fante and Dagbon peoples. If ATL Ghana arises in similar circumstances to OTL, as in being very nationalist and anti-colonial, it would probably not call itself Gold Coast either. They'd probably just find another historical African empire. They might even name themselves Benin, in an interesting twist of fate.
It would become 'Wandalia', 'Fandalia' or 'Bandalia' (unless /w/, /f/, /b/ or similar sounds do not exist in whatever language is spoken there, which is rather unlikely, but some languages only have /p/). In some Berber languages, the /b/ sound actually becomes what the IPA calls /β/, which is a very similar sound to /v/ and is usually transcribed as <v> in the languages that have it. In fact, Andalusia was known to the Visigoths as 'Wandalus(ia)' and only became (al)-Andalus under Arabic/Berber rule
