Great Chapter! I love learning about the developments in Japanese culture, clothing, and cuisine.
Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun
- Thread starter Ambassador Huntsman
- Start date
There a handful of lords that are basically at a hatamoto level in terms of kokudaka in Mino, Owari, and Omi provinces as well as parts of Shinano and Shimousa provinces so those would be the poorest I guess. Idk I've never really thought about it but your conclusions make sense. That being said, minor lords in Oda lands tend to be disproportionately influential because they fill many of the positions in the Azuchi bureaucracy.
Great chapter! I love see the developments of Japanese food, fashion and culture. Quick question: do you have any plans for the Swahili coast, Somalia, and Madagascar?
Hello,
Chapter 132: Food, Fashion, and Popular Leisure of Late 17th Century Japan
By the beginning of the 17th century, the predominant hairstyle among samurai men was the chasenmage hairstyle (茶筅髷) paired with the practice of sakayaki (月代) or keeping the top of the head completely shaved. Oda Nobunaga’s chasen-mage would become particularly iconic as he was the first ruler of Japan to forgo usage of eboshi hats (烏帽子) except for ceremonial functions. The chasen-mage would soon spread amongst the court nobility and the commoner classes and become the standard male hairstyle by the middle of the century. In the latter half, however, another hair style, the chonmage (丁髷) hairstyle, emerged in the urban centers of Kyoto, Sakai, and Azuchi. Marked by a folded topknot, it was first adorned by the merchant and artisan classes who opted for what they saw as a cleaner and more compact look. Soon, the samurai class began to adopt it, although most still had a chasenmage at the close of the century, especially in eastern and northern Japan as well as in Bireito and Luson [1].
Womens’ hairstyles would change even more significantly in the 17th century. At the beginning of the century, the samurai and court nobility still wore their hair down in varying lengths in the suihatsu style (垂髪) like they had for hundreds of years. However, this began to change with the popularization of the practice of tying up hair upwards. Early examples of this include the karawa (唐輪) and tatehyogo (立兵庫) hairstyles and originated among courtesans before spreading amongst the merchant and artisan classes. Samurai women, however, would largely refrain from adopting these styles until their evolution into the tsukunehyogo (つくね兵庫), marked both by a top knot and downward-trending hair going down to the shoulders. This hairstyle picked up in popularity in the late 17th century and would predominate especially among the samurai class by 1700 [2], with only noblewomen continuing to wear their hair in the suihatsu style. Uniquely in Bireito, the karawa and tatehyogo styles not only saw earlier adoption by women of the samurai class but even spread among middle and upper class Chinese and indigenous women.
Modern-day depictions of the tatehyogo and tsukunehyogo hairstyles
Kimono would also evolve during the 17th century, with the kosode (小袖) spreading among the common people especially in urban centers and designs and techniques becoming ever more elaborate. Japan’s trade expansionism saw its cities attract commerce and wealth in an unprecedented fashion, resulting in opulent colors and patterns becoming more accessible and fashion trends shifting into the hands of the increasingly wealthy and influential merchant class as opposed to the samurai and court nobility. Even the material changed, with rinzu (綸子) or silk damask becoming preferred over plain-weave silk. Additionally, the fur trade also led to the popularization of fur pelts being worn or accessorized in Japan, principally among men and especially the samurai class. Tiger and leopard furs were the most prized, with wolf, sable, and fox pelts also prominent. Their usage ranged from being strung on the shoulder to being made into kataginu (肩衣). Their incorporation as clothing, however, was seen as immoral and controversial by a sizable segment of the population, being seen as a violation of Shinto-Buddhist virtues.
Food and eating would similarly change and reflect not only the better material conditions and greater peace and stability in the realm but also the extensive trade taking place between Japan and the rest of the world. Japanese cuisine would be able to expand through three key internal developments: the transition from 2 meals to 3 meals a day as a custom, the integration of snacking and snack foods like mochi and noodles, and an intake of foreign foods, crops, and flavors. Additionally, the consumption of white rice would also proliferate among the urban populace, although the vast majority of farmers and peasants continued to rely on millet as a base meal. These developments facilitated an expansion of the Japanese diet and a greater culinary interest in the realm, allowing for steady population growth and a culinary cultural blossoming. This was best represented by the introduction and proliferation of several nanbangashi (南蛮菓子), or Western sweets, followed by their domestic production when Japan began to import sugar in greater amounts. Some of these included the Portuguese konpeito (金平糖) and French sweet and savory crepes [3], with the latter often made from buckwheat as opposed to wheat flour. Various agricultural products also made their way into Japan throughout the 17th century, including sweet potatoes, tomatoes, and squash. Many of these new crops would quickly begin to be cultivated in swaths of the countryside affected by war or susceptible to famine, especially the sweet potato. Ezo in particular saw heavy cultivation of sweet potatoes and potatoes due to the absence of a pre-existing rice-based society and the colder temperatures [4]. Vineyards continued to spread as the demand for wine grew not just from the Yamato Church but also from wealthy merchants and samurai who enjoyed its taste. Fish and poultry would continue to constitute the main protein source as the consumption of four-legged animals remained largely culturally taboo for most of the populace with the exception of those hunted by the samurai class, though. The advent of open-boat shore whaling would introduce whale meat into the mix.
Sweet potato
Far to the south, Bireito’s and Luson’s majority non-Japanese populations meant that food that the Japanese cuisine down there would diverge more and more from that of the home islands despite consistent contact throughout the greater realm. Here, the consumption of pork and other native four legged mammals was much more widely accepted, although cows continued to be valued and thus largely not part of the diet on both islands. The cultivation of sugar and tropical fruits also added a more sugar-intensive taste compared to that of the home islands. On Bireito, the sizable Chinese population introduced Fujianese and other mainland cuisines, infusing the Japanese diet with such condiments and foods like pork belly buns and fish sauce. Meanwhile, coconut byproducts like coconut oil and coconut milk made their way in the Japanese diet on Luson while curry and adobo began to infuse into traditional Japanese dishes introduced by settlers.
In general, the late 17th century was a time of increased leisure and fun for the average Japanese person. Beyond the greater quality of food and clothing, several cultural celebrations and traditions began during this time. One of the most significant trends was the popularity of the o-ise-mairi (お伊勢参り), or the practice of pilgrimage to the Ise Grand Shrine (伊勢神宮) which was dedicated to the Shinto sun goddess of Amaterasu (天照大神). As it was a several days’ trip from Sakai, Kyoto, Azuchi, and Gifu, it was an accessible activity for many. Other popular trips included those to the Izumo Grand Shrine (出雲大社) and the Kumano Sanzan (熊野三山) as well as Atsuta Shrine (熱田神宮) [5] where Oda Nobunaga famously prayed at before the Battle of Okehazama. Meanwhile, members of the Yamato Church would embark upon their own pilgrimages to the home church in Azuchi. Another trend was the development of special days and cultural traditions revolved around the gosekku (五節句), the five traditional annual ceremonies held by the imperial court. With the unification of the realm, these ceremonies began to be held in grand splendor without a shortage of funds once again, their occurrence reverberating across a relatively stable Japan. From these gosekku sprouted several days celebrated across both major cities and rural villages from setsubun (節分) to tanabata (七夕), marked by much festivity. Outside of these were yet more other celebrations and traditions, particularly those on the local level. All of these were often accompanied by an abundance of fireworks. A particularly famous annual firework display was one right above Azuchi Castle with a special structure within the castle eventually built to accommodate its ignition and launch. From its position, the fireworks could be seen from across Azuchi, and so magnificent were they that it was described by contemporary writers to be one of the most visually stunning phenomena in all of Japan.
Depiction of an o-ise-mairi
[1]: ITTL, the chonmage will take much longer to fully take hold.
[2]: ITTL, the shimadagami style (島田髪) never develops.
[3]: Due to French contact, also overshadows castella
[4]: An IOTL trend that is taking place much earlier.
[5]: A more popular destination compared to OTL for obvious reasons.
I enjoyed this chapter. Thank you.
It’s interesting when and in what form the “traditional Japanese wedding” will develop (OTL is a product of the Meiji transformations; it’s interesting that the main trend in most East Asian countries is “European-style weddings,” while “folk weddings” are less popular and much more expensive - ironic).
Oh look at the clock, new waifu just dropped!
Modern-day depictions of the tatehyogo and tsukunehyogo hairstyles
Hi, I have a weird thing I want to talk about. I hope this isn't off topic, as it's based off a fictional story that's based off real history.
I'm halfway through watching Shogun (2024), which is overall a fantastic show by the way, and based off a miniseries from the 1980s which was based off a book from the 1970s, which was based off William Adams and Sekigahara Conflict. So, it got me brainstorming for fun of an alternate version of Shogun in this timeline, had it been written in the modern day and based off the Williams Adams from this timeline. (By the way, this is more in line with the book; I'm still halfway with the 2024 show)
What do you guys think? Any suggestions? I hope this isn't too off topic.
I'm halfway through watching Shogun (2024), which is overall a fantastic show by the way, and based off a miniseries from the 1980s which was based off a book from the 1970s, which was based off William Adams and Sekigahara Conflict. So, it got me brainstorming for fun of an alternate version of Shogun in this timeline, had it been written in the modern day and based off the Williams Adams from this timeline. (By the way, this is more in line with the book; I'm still halfway with the 2024 show)
For starters and most obvious, the book/show wouldn't have been called Shogun. Instead, it probably be called Daijin or even Anjin.
Moving onto the characters, I can see William Adams still used as the inspiration for John Blackthorne. We get to see the real changes with the Japanese characters.
Firstly, when Blackthorne lands in Japan, he landed in Izu and met Kasigi Yabu (Honda Masanobu). ITTL, William Adams landed in Kyushu and met the Shimazu. This means Shimazu Yoshihasa and Shimazu Nagahisa would take the place of Kasigi Yabu and Kasigi Omi (Honda Masazumi).
Next, we have Yoshi Toranaga (Tokugawa Ieyasu) who would be either removed or even reduced to a secondary character. In lieu of the Yoshi Toranaga and his son, we have Goroda/Kuroda* (Oda Nobunaga) and his son, Oda Nobutada. Meanwhile, Goroda/Kuroda's character would be altered, since he was described as corrupt and murderous in the book/show. Maybe we can get a little bit of that, but from the perspectives of other characters, but a more complex and even sympathetic side when meeting Goroda/Kuroda in-person.
*He was called Kuroda-Sama in the 2024 show
Next, we have Toda Mariko (Hosokawa Gracia), who isn't the disgraced daughter of the traitor, Akechi Jinsai (Akechi Mitsuhide), but ITTL the daughter of the respected general, Akechi Jinsai. So, Mariko's family never gets annihilated, and we could meet her other family such as her brother, possibly OTL Akechi Mitsuyoshi. Also, her relationship with Buntaro (Hosokawa Tadaoki) would be altered.
Also, another obvious part, the Council of Regents such as Ishido (Ishida Mitsunari), Onoshi (Otani Yoshitsugu), Harima (Arima Harunobu) and Kiyama (Konishi Yukinaga) are minor characters or entirely removed, and instead we get the members of the Sangi-shu. Meanwhile Lady Ochiba (Yodo-dono)* is the consort of the emperor.
*Also in the 2024 show, they made Lady Ochiba, Goroda/Kuroda's daughter, when in Real-Life, Yodo-dono was Nobunaga's niece.
Then we have additions of other historical characters, such as Kuki Yoshitaka, Yasuke, Lady Nohime, Date Masamune, and Sakuma Morimasa, etc. We also might get more of Blackthorne’s crew, such as Johann Vinck (Jan Joosten van Lodensteijn) and Spillbergen (Jacob Quaeckernaeck (1606) get more prominent roles, since ITTL, they came together to Azuchi.
Secondly, we have the plot, which is completely altered for obvious reasons. The whole build-up tensions to the Sekigahara are gone, since ITTL the realm is unified. Meaning, the plot is going to be very different and have less action. Instead, the alternative I could see happening is focusing on the final days of Goroda/Kuroda, as his dream of a unified Japan is fufilled, but he is depressed as his most trusted companions and family have died over the years. Also, I can see it focusing more on the rising tensions of the Portuguese and Catholicism, when Blackthorne and the English/Dutch arrive. I can also see it focus more on the cultural aspect of Japan and how Blackthorne interacts with it, and maybe even a fictionalized friendship between Goroda and Blackthorne (Maybe even taking inspiration from Nobunaga's and Yasuke's relationship)
Moving onto the characters, I can see William Adams still used as the inspiration for John Blackthorne. We get to see the real changes with the Japanese characters.
Firstly, when Blackthorne lands in Japan, he landed in Izu and met Kasigi Yabu (Honda Masanobu). ITTL, William Adams landed in Kyushu and met the Shimazu. This means Shimazu Yoshihasa and Shimazu Nagahisa would take the place of Kasigi Yabu and Kasigi Omi (Honda Masazumi).
Next, we have Yoshi Toranaga (Tokugawa Ieyasu) who would be either removed or even reduced to a secondary character. In lieu of the Yoshi Toranaga and his son, we have Goroda/Kuroda* (Oda Nobunaga) and his son, Oda Nobutada. Meanwhile, Goroda/Kuroda's character would be altered, since he was described as corrupt and murderous in the book/show. Maybe we can get a little bit of that, but from the perspectives of other characters, but a more complex and even sympathetic side when meeting Goroda/Kuroda in-person.
*He was called Kuroda-Sama in the 2024 show
Next, we have Toda Mariko (Hosokawa Gracia), who isn't the disgraced daughter of the traitor, Akechi Jinsai (Akechi Mitsuhide), but ITTL the daughter of the respected general, Akechi Jinsai. So, Mariko's family never gets annihilated, and we could meet her other family such as her brother, possibly OTL Akechi Mitsuyoshi. Also, her relationship with Buntaro (Hosokawa Tadaoki) would be altered.
Also, another obvious part, the Council of Regents such as Ishido (Ishida Mitsunari), Onoshi (Otani Yoshitsugu), Harima (Arima Harunobu) and Kiyama (Konishi Yukinaga) are minor characters or entirely removed, and instead we get the members of the Sangi-shu. Meanwhile Lady Ochiba (Yodo-dono)* is the consort of the emperor.
*Also in the 2024 show, they made Lady Ochiba, Goroda/Kuroda's daughter, when in Real-Life, Yodo-dono was Nobunaga's niece.
Then we have additions of other historical characters, such as Kuki Yoshitaka, Yasuke, Lady Nohime, Date Masamune, and Sakuma Morimasa, etc. We also might get more of Blackthorne’s crew, such as Johann Vinck (Jan Joosten van Lodensteijn) and Spillbergen (Jacob Quaeckernaeck (1606) get more prominent roles, since ITTL, they came together to Azuchi.
Secondly, we have the plot, which is completely altered for obvious reasons. The whole build-up tensions to the Sekigahara are gone, since ITTL the realm is unified. Meaning, the plot is going to be very different and have less action. Instead, the alternative I could see happening is focusing on the final days of Goroda/Kuroda, as his dream of a unified Japan is fufilled, but he is depressed as his most trusted companions and family have died over the years. Also, I can see it focusing more on the rising tensions of the Portuguese and Catholicism, when Blackthorne and the English/Dutch arrive. I can also see it focus more on the cultural aspect of Japan and how Blackthorne interacts with it, and maybe even a fictionalized friendship between Goroda and Blackthorne (Maybe even taking inspiration from Nobunaga's and Yasuke's relationship)
What do you guys think? Any suggestions? I hope this isn't too off topic.
Amazing work as always! Love to learn more about Japan! Specially it's good! Love Japanese cousine
Last edited:
Political conflict and treachery are some of the important themes of the book; setting the story in the Manji war fits the bill more perfectly than the rather peaceful death of Nobunaga.
Another great chapter! Love seeing the cultural butterflies.
Odds are that a TTL equivalent would be much more accurate on this point.
Haven’t seen the series. The main thing I remember about the book was being very annoyed that it bought into the whole ‘samurai not liking guns’ myth and implied they didn’t use them aside from for hunting until the white MC arrived. I read that as a teenager and even then I knew that (a) Japan had adopted guns before the book took place and (b) samurai had zero ‘honour’ issues with using guns or cannon.
Odds are that a TTL equivalent would be much more accurate on this point.
Yeah, that was a problem with the book, alongside with them playing the stereotypical ninja trope. (Don't worry about the 2024 adaptation, they fixed those two things). So, TTL equivalent of the book, it could be more accurate in that terms (Especially with Oda Nobunaga, the guy who utilized guns to a massive degree)
Another theme of the book was the whole idea of "Eastern VS Western" cultural conflict. ITTL, with the dawn of a new open Japan, we could see less of that idea and more focus on the cultural exchanging and intermingling between East and West, especially since this is Oda Nobunaga, since he was very interested in the West. Or if going back a bit, maybe use Luís Fróis instead of Williams Adams.
Edit:
Fair point. Although, an alternative I could see used for this hypothetical book is the focus on the deteriorating relations between the Portuguese and Japanese due to Jesuits role in the slave trade before that was ended, and Blackthorne enters to offer an alternative. Or maybe even focus on a retrospective on Nobunaga's life and wars with other daimyo to unify Japan no matter what, and the loss of his friends and family in the last years, and what a lifetime of battles does to a person.
Besides that, William Adams was used as the base for John Blackthorne because he was an Anglo POV during the Sekighara Conflict. In all honesty, the Manji War could an entirely separate book, with an entirely fictional English character 60 years later, that is loosely inspired by the tale of William Adams.
Last edited:
I should, especially in regards to how it affects the French and Portuguese there but I gotta do the research first.
Or the Furuwatari War.
I present a scenario where maybe there’s a Russian prisoner of war perspective on Japan’s activities in the far north, especially those of Sakuma Moritora during the Asiatic Northern War.
I see Japan is being swept up by French-mania. Also I wonder if forks, knives, spoons might become popular? As a side note, I could see turon becoming a popular snack/dessert amongst Luson’s ethnically Japanese elite.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Turon (food) - Wikipedia
Thank you!!
I imagine some sort of spoon is used for soups and sauces but I think forks and knives are out of the daily picture as of now. Chopsticks rule!!I see Japan is being swept up by French-mania. Also I wonder if forks, knives, spoons might become popular? As a side note, I could see turon becoming a popular snack/dessert amongst Luson’s ethnically Japanese elite.
Turon (food) - Wikipedia
I have a question that popped up in my head. I hope this isn't too irrelevant as it happened a long time ago.
So, the Shimazu clan claimed descent from the Minamoto clan, until Shimazu Yoshihasa adopted one of Nobunaga's sons, who became Shimazu Nagahisa. From that point on, the Shimazu became a cadet branch of the Oda Clan, who claimed descent from the Taira.
But what happened to Yoshihasa's other brothers? Such as Yoshihiro, Toshihisa, Iehisa and their families? Did their families have other branches in the Shimazu Domain in Kyushu? Has any of them contested the main Oda/Shimazu branch during the Oda civil wars, such as the Furuwatari War and Manji War, or did they accepted the change or even died out?
So, the Shimazu clan claimed descent from the Minamoto clan, until Shimazu Yoshihasa adopted one of Nobunaga's sons, who became Shimazu Nagahisa. From that point on, the Shimazu became a cadet branch of the Oda Clan, who claimed descent from the Taira.
But what happened to Yoshihasa's other brothers? Such as Yoshihiro, Toshihisa, Iehisa and their families? Did their families have other branches in the Shimazu Domain in Kyushu? Has any of them contested the main Oda/Shimazu branch during the Oda civil wars, such as the Furuwatari War and Manji War, or did they accepted the change or even died out?
Last edited:
The descendants of the younger brothers of Yoshihisa continued to hold the Shimazu name and maintain cadet branches of the clan. Although there was initial resistance from them when Oda Katsunaga was adopted as Shimazu Nagahisa, their status as a cadet branch of the Oda clan has benefited the Shimazu clan significantly, as has Japan’s trade expansionism and trade relations with the Dutch. Nagahisa and Norihisa were some of the most influential figures in Japan when they were alive, especially Nagahisa who was the last of Nobunaga’s sons to die, and were also steady stewards for their clans in general.
This is a really fun read in general! I love how the different cultural pieces are all converging to change Japan as it continues to connect with the European world and beyond! (exams are coming my way so yeah).
I love how the Samurai class is now incorporating pelts into their clothing, which is very much either a re-interpretation of western fashion or incorporating Chinese fashion of wearing whole pelts. I definitely see it being a lot more common in the North with the Ainu and other cultures which begs the question that would northern Japanese be a lot more inclined to wear such garments bc of the weather? And would we see people believing in religions that don't condemn them for wearing such garments like Christianity or the new Salvationist religion if its less harsh on such teachings?
The same applies to the food too. With fish and poultry being what the common man ate, animals like pigs would be underutilised, but I definitely see these animals be un-stigmatised as time goes on due to western and influence from the colonies, which are a lot more inclined to eat such animals. Having Philippine curry be the curry that ittl Japan takes back is interesting, as Japanese curry otl was brought in by the British. We could see westernised curry being brought into Japan in a parallel to otl, so we get 'westernised curry', 'Japanese curry' and 'Luzon curry'. And that's not accounting for the fact that Bireitou could incorporate SEA cuisine and make their own Chinese version of it which is different from the others.
Potato and sweet potato reaching the Japanese isles would be great for them too, with how they would improve living standards by having something to eat when tough times come by, especially with tubers being a lot harder to store, which encourages ppl to trade it or lose it too. Such crops would make stuff like alcohol interesting too, with shochu probably incorporating sweet potatoes like otl and making it a speciality in the region, while potatoes could be used to make different alcoholic drinks too. As sake is made more similarly to beer than wine, I wonder what the results of wheat or potatoes with koji would look like, and how distillation would change things in general.
French crepes overshadowing castella is a good thing tho lol. It's too sweet for my liking and Japanese crepes ittl prob would be great, especially when a Japanese spin is added to them.
That would be a very interesting novel to read, especially for a Cossack type who's not as used to having multiple states fighting over the lands they're going through, and the peculiarities of the region such as Joseon and Ainu weaponry.
Maybe the book reaches arkanglsk and goes to Britain through that route.
Hmm, I'd think carving knives and forks would be something the Japanese would probably find handy, especially when preparing it to be cut to the proper size.
But yeah outside of the ultra wealthy I don't see European eating utensils being that popular, and its not like the Japanese didn't have their own spoons which came from the Chinese anyways.