Mowque Reads TL-191

[mowque]

A few days ago, I was planning on doing my occasional re-read of TL-191. I own all the books (some paperback, some hardback), and do about a yearly re-read of the whole series. Upon doing so I had the idea (from a online blog I found doing it for LoTR) for doing a chapter by chapter re-read, and posting my thoughts as I went.

I shot the idea over to Thande (who cares for such things) and he said that it may be interesting to really take a look at such an important bit of Ah literature. This is not to say we don't talk about Turtledove's works. Indeed, once upon a time, this forum was little but maps and TL-191 and even now we have "Filling in the Gaps" and "TL-After the End" (and after a quick look) "Settling Accounts Historical Accuracy Corrections".

But alot of this is either dismissive of the series or slavishly devoted to it. We rarely actually talk about much more then iron oxide or awkward sex scenes. I am to change that, or try to anyway.

Basically, I'll be reading the series chapter by chapter, posting my thoughts and comments. It is open to debate, questions and such. Feel free, we are trying to stimulate a conversation here.

Without further ado....

Mowque Reads TL-191 by Harry Turtledove!

 

[CT23]

IIRC, chronological order of TL-191 was:

How Few Remain
American Front
War In Hell
Breakthroughs
Blood And Iron
Center Cannot Hold
Victorious Opposition
Return Engagement
Drive To The East
The Grapple
In At The Death

 

[mowque]

Great War: American Front

Prologue- Where these is a POD, there is a handwave.

So it begins. This little 'pre-chapter' is the set-up for the whole saga. Make no mistake, it is little more then a framing device to get the story where Harry wants it, but let's look.

The first half of the chapter is from Robert E. Lee's POV. Lee, who Turtledove also writes in The Guns of the South, is his usual stereotypical sense. A soldier's solider, he is aloof, cold and severely polite (Harry works in the famous 'those people'...Lee's term for the Federals). This was generally the way Lee was shown in TGotS as well, but he is a minor character here. His main point is to tell the reader that the Union is losing, and losing very badly. It seems that without help McClellan (Turtledove also throws in a bit of historical trivia by calling him “Young Napoleon', which fits very clumsily, in my opinion) is devastated by the Confederate battle formations. The little vingette ends (after some good old-fashioned Rebel whooping) with the Unionists on the run, falling back to Washington.

I'm no Civil War expert, but this is a 'battle' that has been debated on AH.com for longer then I've been here. This is not a place to re-fight it. Let's just say Turtledove mostly overlooks any details. All we are told is that the Union's ability to retreat is cut off and Jackson is running roughshod. I find it amusing and surprising, that Lee actually references the massive works about DC, which many AH.commers bring up. Lee says he 'does no relish' having to assault them. Luckily, Britannia will save him the trouble.

The second half is a scene showing Lincoln basically being served terms by the British minister, Lord Lyons. There is a little give and take between the President and the Brit. Honestly, I think Turtledove thought “Lincoln=folksy whimsical idioms” and overdoes it here, rather much. Lincoln, like any statesmen, could be very polite and proper, doubly so with a representative from Great Britain, of all places. Turtledove does a nice job getting the 'bitterness' feeling on the Union-side. You can almost feel that Lincoln knows he is being cheated, that he should have won. The bit where Lincoln half-heartily tries to bring up slavery and a nascent “Emancipation Proclamation” is well-done and brings home the “We aren't in Kansas anymore” feeling.

The last part is Turtledove's foreshadowing. An ally against the UK and France? I can agree that it seems crazy in 1862 but that would soon be changing.

The German-American alliance is heavily used trope in AH TLs, and I think it starts here, as Turtledove wants a Great War, and for that you need semi-equal sides. Germany, new but very powerful, can give him just that, and without much eyebrow raising too. Granted, he has to ignore butterflies, but we'll get to that.

Suffice to say, the stage is set here. The CSA has won an early victory, due to heavy British and French intersession. They have set, basically, a victory with all they could want. All the slave states (later, we shall see just how much), they keep the slaves, and get backed by two major powers to boot.

 

[cortz#9]

Cool idea if I can find my copy of American Front I may give it a reread as well. Subscribed.

 

[Thande]

Glad to see you're doing this.

Although it's a bit campy, the thing about Lord Lyons commenting on how absurd the idea of a European ally that could take on both Britain and France does work IMO: full German unification under Prussia with a united army etc. capable of defeating France didn't seem that likely in the immediate term in 1864.

Are you not doing How Few Remain? Pity, I've always considered it the best of the books in the series.

 

[mowque]

Glad to see you're doing this.

Although it's a bit campy, the thing about Lord Lyons commenting on how absurd the idea of a European ally that could take on both Britain and France does work IMO: full German unification under Prussia with a united army etc. capable of defeating France didn't seem that likely in the immediate term in 1864.

Are you not doing How Few Remain? Pity, I've always considered it the best of the books in the series.

I agree with the bolded, it does work.

As to How Few Remain...I didn't like it. If this takes off, maybe I'll go back and do it.

 

[cortz#9]

I concur with Thande, How Few Remain is my favorite as well. It's your thread though so do as you please.

 

[mowque]

Chapter 1- Ham, Meet Fist

We meet our first real character, George Enos. Know him, love him, we’ll be following him for a long time. He is the classic everyman. Really, his character (besides being uneducated) isn’t really fleshed out, but his background is. He is a fishermen, and ostensibly an experienced one, and is out on yet another fishing trip. As usual, the other side characters are brighter then our POV character. The Captain of Enos’ fishing boat supplies most of the exposition and such. This part actually isn’t done badly, and it shows that America and Germany have become friends and allies in a believable way (through a casual reference to joint naval maneuvers).
Indeed the German-American connection is one of the two main themes of this opening bit (race is the other). They are a study in contrasts. The German topic works well, as I noted above, it is done subtly and mostly ‘off-screen’. It is casually noted that some American know German, or at least comfortable with the terms. This language change is one of Turtledove’s brighter ideas and runs through all the books, and it works quite well. Also, it is apparent German ships are common in American ports, as one of the characters can rattle off her specs to the inch.
The other main thrust, race, is the exact reverse. It is like getting hit in the head with a frying pan. We have one black character, the cook on the fishing boat (whose name is White, ). It goes ok, until we land on shore and we get this horrendous case of “As You Know, Bob”....

“An old, white-bearded man awkwardly pushing a fish cart with one hand and a hook mounted on the stump of his other wrist folded his meat hand into a fist and shook it at Charlie White. “You go to hell, you damn nigger!” he shouted in a hoarse, raspy voice. “Wasn’t for your kind, we wouldn’t have fought that war and this here’d still be one country.”

“As You Know, Bob” was a concept coined by Ian (yes, THAT Ian) for when characters just launch off into long soliloquies about obvious things that everyone in-universe knows but the reader may not. When done poorly, like this example, it comes across as ham-fisted and ridiculous. It would be like an OTL person going about carping about random Vietnamese on the street with no prompting. This is not Turtledove’s finest moment….

Oh, and WW1 started. Ok, Turtledove avoids the name (He calls it the Great War) but otherwise it is nearly exactly the same as WWI, right down to Franz Ferdinand being shot in Sarajevo. I feel “as if millions of butterflies suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced”. I guess Harry feels it works better if it ties as closely to OTL as possible for regular readers....but couldn’t he at least get shot in a different city? Oh, and Theodore Roosevelt shows up as President, so butterflies be damned.

 

[cortz#9]

Oh, and WW1 started. Ok, Turtledove avoids the name (He calls it the Great War) but otherwise it is nearly exactly the same as WWI, right down to Franz Ferdinand being shot in Sarajevo. I feel “as if millions of butterflies suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced”. I guess Harry feels it works better if it ties as closely to OTL as possible for regular readers....but couldn’t he at least get shot in a different city? Oh, and Theodore Roosevelt shows up as President, so butterflies be damned.

Gotta agree with you here there were so many ways WWI could have started. Turtledove could've used a little more Imagination here. I liked Enos Too.

 

[LordVetinari]

Interesting idea. Do continue.

And out of the characters we do meet in this series, George Enos Sr. and Abner Dowling were always among my favorites.

 

[mowque]

The next bit is another major character, whose importance will expand until he defines the entire series, Jake Featherston. I’ve always liked the character and felt he is decently rounded enough to seem real and vital. Which is good because he has a lot of dead weight to carry. His opening narrative is a simple ‘walking the battlements’ scene, showing the (basically) DMZ like affair between the USA and the CSA. It throws in sharp relief that DC, is under enemy guns in a view eerily similar to Seoul.

We get some French/UK-CSA connections, in culture, weapons, uniforms (the butternut/khaki thing is well done, imo) and language. That parts works well and it seems mostly natural, although Jake’s superior seems to be a bit …robotic as he lists the whole affair with Mexico. I mean, I’m sure Jake knows all about Sonora and Chihuahua. We also get a hint past wars with the USA.

We get another classic “As You Know, Bob” moment regarding, yet again, race.

Watching him go, Stuart shook his head. “I do wonder if we made a mistake, letting our British friends persuade us to manumit the niggers after the Second Mexican War.” He sighed. “I don’t suppose we had much choice, but even so, we may well have been wrong. They’re an inferior race, Sergeant. Now that they are free, we still can’t trust them to take a man’s place. So what has freedom got them? A little money in their pockets to spend foolishly, not a great deal more.”

Granted, the reader needs to know why there are no slaves and such, but this still seems a bit heavy handed. No one talks about allies and geopolitics while going on about how much they hate the black folks.

Better done is a good old dash of Southern culture and inbred superiority. Both Jake and his superior (Stuart) are convinced not only did the Yankees bungle the last wars, but they will do so again, due to God’s help. They have little doubt that this next war will be big, but it’ll be quick and another great Southern victory.

I always liked this little scene. The image, walking among giant weapons of war, bundled in concrete cribs, while looking at the exact same across the way is a powerful image.

 

[stirlingdraka]

This great mowque. I`m enjoying this. Subscribed.

 

[mowque]

This great mowque. I`m enjoying this. Subscribed.

Any thoughts?

 

[Trotsky]

Don't know if it was mentioned in Enos' first scene, but it was several times throughout the series, but Franz Ferdinand was killed by bomb attack, not gunshot.

 

[cortz#9]

Don't know if it was mentioned in Enos' first scene, but it was several times throughout the series, but Franz Ferdinand was killed by bomb attack, not gunshot.

I'd forgotten all about that. Gonna have to dig up that book.

 

[Thande]

One thing I noticed was how the casus belli for WW1 is slightly different--Franz Ferdinand is killed by a bomb not a gunman. Yet otherwise it's still exactly the same (date, person, place, etc.), so this seems a really strange decision on HT's part. It's a bit like Daniel MacArthur instead of Douglas MacArthur--instead of ignoring butterflies totally, which would at least be consistent, he seems to pay occasional lip service to them in a way that is distracting.

I will say that the 'As You Know Bob' is somewhat in the eye of the beholder--it depends how much you know about US history and whether you are American yourself. I remember when I first read the book many years ago being actually surprised at the idea that people in the rump USA might hate blacks because over here we tend to get the simplistic "the American Civil War was because Lincoln and the northerners liked black people and wanted them to be free" picture. So I think it's an aimed-at-a-wider audience thing that is somewhat forgiveable in a first book, although the infodump could have been handled with more finesse.

 

[Mr.J]

One thing I noticed was how the casus belli for WW1 is slightly different--Franz Ferdinand is killed by a bomb not a gunman. Yet otherwise it's still exactly the same (date, person, place, etc.), so this seems a really strange decision on HT's part. It's a bit like Daniel MacArthur instead of Douglas MacArthur--instead of ignoring butterflies totally, which would at least be consistent, he seems to pay occasional lip service to them in a way that is distracting.

Well, the Black Hand did throw a bomb at Franz Ferdinand that day, so it makes some sense. Do they ever say it was Princip who threw the bomb in this TL?

 

[Meadow]

This is a great idea. I would like to add my voice to the Abner Dowling fan club, he was by far my favourite character, and I was extremely moved by his final scene. A good man who knew he would never be great, and so spent his life being fundamentally decent. A rare figure in the work of a man driven too often by 'great man history'.

 

[Trotsky]

Well, the Black Hand did throw a bomb at Franz Ferdinand that day, so it makes some sense. Do they ever say it was Princip who threw the bomb in this TL?

No, but I think at one point they said the assassin was subsequently shot dead. Not exactly sure to be honest.

This is a great idea. I would like to add my voice to the Abner Dowling fan club, he was by far my favourite character, and I was extremely moved by his final scene. A good man who knew he would never be great, and so spent his life being fundamentally decent. A rare figure in the work of a man driven too often by 'great man history'.

Dowling was my favorite character in the Great War trilogy primarily because of George Custer.

 

[mowque]

Our next segment is more of the same, “the deep breath before the plunge” as Gandalf would say. Here we meet Cincinnatus (who I already hate since I misspell his name each time). A truck driver/porter, he gives us an interesting view to the life of a black in the CSA, albeit a border state (Kentucky). As expected, his life is hard with much toil and work in a racist society. Also, we get vibes of apartheid South Africa with passbooks and travel restrictions.

After a bit of product placement (surely Dr. Pepper could have been given a different name Harry?), we go off to see more war brewing. Plans fly overhead, the Ohio River is armed with gunships and trade is trickling off as tensions grow. This is a quiet chapter, just to give us a taste of the character in normal peace time. It works, as far as it goes. Subtle, with war looming, and our character watches a white world go to hell all around him.