Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[Kayin Dreemurr]

Recent events made some random tidbits of memory pop into my head, and gave me a crazy idea that I'm wondering what the consequences of would be.

There was I think (unless I am remembering wrongly, am more then willing to be proven wrong) where a consideration was made of giving Iran (then under the rule of the Shah) access to nuclear weapons.

Supposing that for (whatever reason) that idea was followed through, how different does things go when the revolution occurs in Iran, and it succeeds as it did otl? Given that (least afaik) Iran was no friend of the Soviets either at the time, could there be a possibility of a situation occuring where West and East work together in an effort to retrieve or destroy said weapons?

 

[FriendlyGhost]

There was I think (unless I am remembering wrongly, am more then willing to be proven wrong) where a consideration was made of giving Iran (then under the rule of the Shah) access to nuclear weapons.

Nuclear power technology was provided to Iran under the Shah, but access to weapon technology was specifically prohibited, with the USA (Iran's partner at this time) being very concerned about not allowing further proliferation. Source: USA National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 268

However, for the sake of argument, if the Iranians somehow managed to develop a bomb (probably only one, maybe two max) from the technology, then I could see the USA getting tacit agreement from the USSR to 'deal with' the situation, probably to forestall the Israelis doing it instead (similar to what they did with the Iraqi reactor in 1981).

 

[superstrijder15]

A question about this forum:
Are there any collections of 'small scale' and/or non-war based timelines? The front page of this area of the forum seems to all be "what if this major thing was changed in WWI or WWII?" I am thinking of timelines base on a smaller scale, and not so focused on how things change at a state level because wars run differently. For example one idea I've had is "What if the rail bridge at Wesel survives the Allied Rhine crossings of March 1945?"
Actually achieving this POD would take quite some effort (OTL the bridges blow up on the 10th, 13 days before the crossing, so either someone needs to have a change of heart then survive and stay that way for 13 days, or the Allies need to do a lightning advance to arrive over 13 days earlier without triggering an earlier bridge blowing, or perhaps the bridge at Remagen needs to be successfully destroyed on the 7th and then everything needs to go right on the day of the crossing?), but that isn't the point to me. To me the interesting thing would then be working out how this reshapes the rebuilding infrastructure and urban landscapes, and how requirements immediately after the war change the choices made in the following decades.
For my example, the size of things to look at could for example involve whether the rail lines onwards to Venlo and Boxtel would still be closed, and whether there is as much priority right after the war for rebuilding the rail bridges at Duisberg (two current bridges were finished in February 1946 and October 1949), whether this shifts service levels and whether it changes which towns grow after the way. But it wouldn't go much beyond the Ruhr and the east part of Brabant.

Is there any place where these kind of smaller scale timelines get collected?

 

[Esotariot2002]

Any advice on what to do with my timeline (more Jewish refugees are able to receive Visas to the United States thanks to an obstructionist dying in a freak accident)? Here’s some questions I have:

• Without Breckinridge Long to order the obstruction of both the refugee process and knowledge of the holocaust, how would politicians like President FDR respond to information about the extent of the holocaust (IOTL the revelation happened in 1944, with the War Refugee Board being set up the same year)?
• What notable people would have survived the holocaust had they been able to receive visas without Long to screw them over (I know about Anne Frank, the friend of whose father tried to get him and his family visas, but were denied.)?
• Without Long to recommend against Oil embargoes to Italy, how would the Second Italo-Abyssinian War go?

To Regain Your Lost Shadows - A Better U.S. Response To Holocaust Refugees

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Any advice on what to do with my timeline (more Jewish refugees are able to receive Visas to the United States thanks to an obstructionist dying in a freak accident)? Here’s some questions I have:

• Without Breckinridge Long to order the obstruction of both the refugee process and knowledge of the holocaust, how would politicians like President FDR respond to information about the extent of the holocaust (IOTL the revelation happened in 1944, with the War Refugee Board being set up the same year)?
• What notable people would have survived the holocaust had they been able to receive visas without Long to screw them over (I know about Anne Frank, the friend of whose father tried to get him and his family visas, but were denied.)?
• Without Long to recommend against Oil embargoes to Italy, how would the Second Italo-Abyssinian War go?

To Regain Your Lost Shadows - A Better U.S. Response To Holocaust Refugees

I think a good start would be to expand the information about this character a little more so that people who are not as familiar with Breckenridge Long (or however it is spelled) can give their opinions.

Because right now the information you're giving is so lame in detail that it sounds more like the usual vague accusations, "If only we took this guy out of the equation, everything would be perfect."

Accusations that are usually based on the school of thought that says "Elaborate on the complex interactions of members of a turbulent society where populists are trying to make a killing? Nah, too complicated. Blame this guy for everything and just kill him! If you do so, everything surely will be perfect!"

Basically, IMO the proposal as redacted ATM, sounds like "the Wilson treatment", and postulate that Breck is (like Wilson) this cosmic catastrophe in human form who could not be more catastrophically and fractally wrong in ALL of his ideas.

Also being the person who, despite having a comparatively insignificant position of power, somehow way is directly responsible for screwing up the lives of hundreds of millions of people and causing immense damage (measurable in decades) to the world.

(and I mean the literal world, not "America is the only relevant country and anything bad that happens there is a net detriment to the world as a whole.")

R5: You need to elaborate the proposal a little more so that it does not seem that Breck is this "President-CEO" who has more power than the POTUS and the entire cabinet combined, and can dictate the foreign and domestic policy of the country and impose his criteria even against the will of the rest of the administration.

 

[Esotariot2002]

I think a good start would be to expand the information about this character a little more so that people who are not as familiar with Breckenridge Long (or however it is spelled) can give their opinions.

Because right now the information you're giving is so lame in detail that it sounds more like the usual vague accusations, "If only we took this guy out of the equation, everything would be perfect."

Accusations that are usually based on the school of thought that says "Elaborate on the complex interactions of members of a turbulent society where populists are trying to make a killing? Nah, too complicated. Blame this guy for everything and just kill him! If you do so, everything surely will be perfect!"

Basically, IMO the proposal as redacted ATM, sounds like "the Wilson treatment", and postulate that Breck is (like Wilson) this cosmic catastrophe in human form who could not be more catastrophically and fractally wrong in ALL of his ideas.

Also being the person who, despite having a comparatively insignificant position of power, somehow way is directly responsible for screwing up the lives of hundreds of millions of people and causing immense damage (measurable in decades) to the world.

(and I mean the literal world, not "America is the only relevant country and anything bad that happens there is a net detriment to the world as a whole.")

R5: You need to elaborate the proposal a little more so that it does not seem that Breck is this "President-CEO" who has more power than the POTUS and the entire cabinet combined, and can dictate the foreign and domestic policy of the country and impose his criteria even against the will of the rest of the administration.

I’ve taken your advice and clarified my summary on Breckinridge. Does it help?

 

[sampleswift]

There was a ship (the Graf Wilhelm?!) that hit an iceberg, but survived it? (Early 1900s), or is this just an urban legend? I find this odd since the iceberg would have likely punctured the hull Titanic-style?

 

[FriendlyGhost]

There was a ship (the Graf Wilhelm?!) that hit an iceberg, but survived it? (Early 1900s), or is this just an urban legend? I find this odd since the iceberg would have likely punctured the hull Titanic-style?

I don't know about that one in particular, but there are plenty of ships which have survived collisions. You can find details of damage caused by iceberg collisions in section 2.4 of this paper: https://newicedata.com/collision-trends-and-analysis/ The paper looks at data from 1850 to 2005 so the overall statistics are skewed by safer ships in recent decades, but there's still plenty of data about earlier ships and even then it seems that the majority of ships didn't sink - from this excerpt:

26% of all vessels in collision with icebergs have sunk, which includes 35% of all sailing vessels and 20% of all steamships and motor vessels.​

 

[Esotariot2002]

A question for my timeline, To Regain Your Lost Shadows: A Better U.S. response to Holocaust Refugees, how would a U.S. oil embargo attempt on Fascist Italy go? (IOTL then Ambassador Breckinridge Long advised then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt against an oil embargo to Italy; ITTL, due to a June 1935 freak accident that kills Long, William Phillips becomes the ambassador to Italy once more. I’m wondering how Phillips would respond.)

 

[Zyobot]

'William McKinley Is Never Assassinated'.

 

[Esotariot2002]

'William McKinley Is Never Assassinated'.

The Outer Worlds has already done that.

 

[Count of Crisco]

The Outer Worlds has already done that.

Cant see outer worlds without mentally adding the voice from and shouting (sometimes outloud but usually inwardly) LISAN AL GAIB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lils <3]

okay so, probably won't get an answer, but I'm looking for any sources on the rulers of the following leagues of Inner Mongolia in the year 1912:
Juu Uda, Josotu, Jirim, Xilin Gol, Ulanqab, Ikh Juu
If anyone got any ideas please let me know!

 

[FriendlyGhost]

okay so, probably won't get an answer, but I'm looking for any sources on the rulers of the following leagues of Inner Mongolia in the year 1912:
Juu Uda, Josotu, Jirim, Xilin Gol, Ulanqab, Ikh Juu
If anyone got any ideas please let me know!

There are some names in this article: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/24761028.2014.11869071
For example (from the page numbered 84):

Interestingly, the following people submitted to the Bogd Khaan Government and were subsequently promoted in rank: Amarlinggui, Zasag of Khorchin Left Wing Rear Banner of Jirim League, who had been a key member of the Federation of Mongolian Nobles and turned out to support a republic after the abdication of the Qing Emperor; Güngsangnorbu, Zasag of Kharchin Right Banner of Josot League, who was appointed Chairman of the Mongolian and Tibetan Secretariat; and Selengnamjilwangbuu, Zasag of Tümed Left Banner of Josot League, Bazargardi, Zasag of Ar Khorchin Banner of Juu Uda League, and Jagar, Zasag of Baarin Right Banner of Juu Uda League, who were promoted in rank by Jiajin Shizang Gonghezhi Menggu Gezhasake Wanggong Fengjue on October 1, 1912. Bekhzaya, Zasag of Khishigten Banner of Juu Uda League, cited in the previous section, was not an exception. ​

There are also some names in the abstract for this article: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/41882917.pdf
But I admit I'm not well enough informed on the subject to know if any of the names are actually what you want.

 

[The Banker]

what is the absolute best ww1 German victory timeline on this entire forum?
I value REALISM first and foremost
Tell me the name of the absolute most Anti-Fun and Hardline Pro-Realism timeline. Let fun be burned to embers and embrace realism only
what is an ultra grounded realistic timeline like that

 

[TerranGames]

Why was there no Russian equivalent of the Freikorps? It seems to me that the Russian soldiers during the revolution were the most radical of the radical, but in Germany, hundreds of thousands of soldiers joined the viciously anti-communist Freikorps.

 

[West234]

Why was there no Russian equivalent of the Freikorps? It seems to me that the Russian soldiers during the revolution were the most radical of the radical, but in Germany, hundreds of thousands of soldiers joined the viciously anti-communist Freikorps.

I would guess that most of the far right monarchist and right wing soldiers supported and likely joined the white army.

 

[Esotariot2002]

I’ve been getting a bit frustrated with the r/AlternateHistory subreddit lately, so…here’s one of my questions:

What would happened to the progress of autistic rights if Andrew Wakefield’s was caught before publishing his anti-vax study and subsequently prevented from publishing it?

This is a question that’s been nagging me for a while with no clear answers nor a straight timeline. Andrew Wakefield’s study was published right around the time neurodiversity was just beginning to gain steam, which allowed anti-vaxxers and curebies to create a moral panic and hijack the movement from *actual* disability rights advocates for over a decade. So, without his study, we would been in a much better place in regards to knowledge about autism.

So, what would happen?

 

[Fr0nne10]

Hello, i'm new to this site and I have a few questions:
1. How to post maps, texts and other kinds of stuff?
2. Can I make alternate scenarios but in the future? I wanna make sure nobody just jumps on me saying i'm gonna get banned.
Thanks in advance and have a good day.

 

[FriendlyGhost]

Hello, i'm new to this site and I have a few questions:
1. How to post maps, texts and other kinds of stuff?
2. Can I make alternate scenarios but in the future? I wanna make sure nobody just jumps on me saying i'm gonna get banned.
Thanks in advance and have a good day.

Welcome.
1. You can post maps and other images using the 'insert image' button (in the reply box toolbar) or by attaching them using the 'attach files' button (under the reply box). If the post is just about the image, then you're best to go to the 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' forum where you'll find various threads for types of images (maps, flags, graphics, etc).
I'm not sure what you mean by posting 'texts.' To post a new TL, just start a new thread in the appropriate forum. Have a look at the description of each forum and you'll see what each one is for. However, if all you've got to post is a short idea, then post it in the appropriate Miscellaneous thread (this one for post-1900, the almost-identically titled one in the Pre-1900 forum, ones with similar names in other forums).
2. Yes, you can. The forum for this is the 'Future History' forum. It is: 'For discussions of events which primarily take place in the future, including when the point of divergence is in the recent past. Can include "sci fi" elements, but outright ridiculous/fantastic stuff should go in the ASB forum. NOT for debates about present-day politics.'

Regarding banning, if you follow the Rules then you'll be fine - they can generally be summed up as 'be civil', 'don't plagiarise' and 'post in the appropriate threads' (that's my very short summary, not an official one!).
I hope you enjoy becoming part of the AH.com community.