AtriumCarceris
Banned
I'll just point out the humour I see in people saying "this map is so unrealistic" but in the other thread, people say "this map is pretty realistic." It's the same map!
Meanwhile, in the USA: 1864 - ...
- Thread starter galileo-034
- Start date
maybe because one is talking about the confederacy and the other the union.....well, the focus anyway.
US presidential election - November 1868
Background:
McClellan began his first term while the Democrats were in minority in both the House and the Senate.
Although the war still continued, emissaries were sent, at first to poll the Confederates then to negociate an armistice, although most of its content were imposed by McClellan who hasn't wanted to lost face; a cease-fire was thus introduced and the federal troops retired beyond an armistice line which rougly corresponded to the frontlines, conserving, at the disgust of prominent Confederates, great parts of the Confederacy under Union control. However, McClellan decreed a general embargo against the CSA.
Northern Virginia was annexed to Western Virginia. The territory of New Mexico, of which the existence had de facto ended with the conquest of Rio Gande's valley by the Confederates, was finally annexed to Arizona.
The intial cease-fire was prolonged until the Democrats took control of the Congress in the mid-term elections, as the armistice, although ratified by the Confederates, had been opposed by both the Radical Republicans and the National Unionists.
In 1866, any perspective of reunification of the Republican Party seeming far away, the Democrats easily took both the Senate and the House with a solid majority.
After the civil war, the size of the standing army was increased to 100,000 men to garrison the newly created McClellan Line, a serie of fortifications built along the Armistice Line to repulse any attack from the CSA.
In the Far West, while the efforts of colonization were pursued, the Indians became a more and more great problem as they intensified their fight against the Americans with arms smuggled from Texas and Mexico where the French had been angered by the support of McClellan to Juarez.
Thinking to strengthen ties with Russia and bolstering himself, he accepted to buy Alaska, and the Danish West Indies.
President G.B. McClellan (D-NJ) / Vice-President G.H. Pendleton (D-OH) ; 206 EV (49,5% of the popular vote)
M. Blair (NU-MD) / Congressman H. J. Raymond (NU-NY) ; 16 EV (27,0% of the popular vote)
Senator C. Sumner (RR-MA) / Congressman H. W. Davis (RR-MD) ; 22 EV (23,5% of the popular vote)
To the contrary of the last election, McClellan won with a large margin in both electoral and popular vote.
If Blaine got more popular vote than Sumner, he was distanced in electoral vote after losing Massachussetts to his Radical adversary by a margin of 2 % (34 to 36).
Background:
McClellan began his first term while the Democrats were in minority in both the House and the Senate.
Although the war still continued, emissaries were sent, at first to poll the Confederates then to negociate an armistice, although most of its content were imposed by McClellan who hasn't wanted to lost face; a cease-fire was thus introduced and the federal troops retired beyond an armistice line which rougly corresponded to the frontlines, conserving, at the disgust of prominent Confederates, great parts of the Confederacy under Union control. However, McClellan decreed a general embargo against the CSA.
Northern Virginia was annexed to Western Virginia. The territory of New Mexico, of which the existence had de facto ended with the conquest of Rio Gande's valley by the Confederates, was finally annexed to Arizona.
The intial cease-fire was prolonged until the Democrats took control of the Congress in the mid-term elections, as the armistice, although ratified by the Confederates, had been opposed by both the Radical Republicans and the National Unionists.
In 1866, any perspective of reunification of the Republican Party seeming far away, the Democrats easily took both the Senate and the House with a solid majority.
After the civil war, the size of the standing army was increased to 100,000 men to garrison the newly created McClellan Line, a serie of fortifications built along the Armistice Line to repulse any attack from the CSA.
In the Far West, while the efforts of colonization were pursued, the Indians became a more and more great problem as they intensified their fight against the Americans with arms smuggled from Texas and Mexico where the French had been angered by the support of McClellan to Juarez.
Thinking to strengthen ties with Russia and bolstering himself, he accepted to buy Alaska, and the Danish West Indies.
President G.B. McClellan (D-NJ) / Vice-President G.H. Pendleton (D-OH) ; 206 EV (49,5% of the popular vote)
M. Blair (NU-MD) / Congressman H. J. Raymond (NU-NY) ; 16 EV (27,0% of the popular vote)
Senator C. Sumner (RR-MA) / Congressman H. W. Davis (RR-MD) ; 22 EV (23,5% of the popular vote)
To the contrary of the last election, McClellan won with a large margin in both electoral and popular vote.
If Blaine got more popular vote than Sumner, he was distanced in electoral vote after losing Massachussetts to his Radical adversary by a margin of 2 % (34 to 36).
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Your development of new states & territories along w/your Alaska Purchase are most implausible, even for this hand-wave heavy TL.
#I've read about attempts of creating a state of Eastern Tennessee as it was done for West Virginia; given the boundaries of the Union ITTL, I don't think it's too unrealistic.
#For Ozark, I hesitated between keeping northern Arkansas as state of Arkansas, and making it following the exemple of East Tennessee. I could correct it if you find it too implausible.
#About the territory of Cimarron, I found the idea while reading that there was IOTL an attempt of creating such a territory.
#Indian territory has already been severed with a good part under control of Confederates. I've thought that some more lands could be given to Cimarron because of administrative convenience.
#When I've decided to annex the part of New Mexico still under US control to Arizona, it was also because I thought it would be administratively more convenient; what's more, I've also looked this annexation more like a reunification since Arizona had been a part of New Mexico till 1863 IOTL. If needed, I could rewrite the update in order to have Arizona having never been created; then, there would only be a minor border change with Cimarron.
#Russia would still need money ITTL and would still propose to sell Alaska. I don't see why it would change.
#If I'm not wrong, there was also an attempt of buying the Danish West Indies around the same time.
What changes do you propose?
#For Ozark, I hesitated between keeping northern Arkansas as state of Arkansas, and making it following the exemple of East Tennessee. I could correct it if you find it too implausible.
#About the territory of Cimarron, I found the idea while reading that there was IOTL an attempt of creating such a territory.
#Indian territory has already been severed with a good part under control of Confederates. I've thought that some more lands could be given to Cimarron because of administrative convenience.
#When I've decided to annex the part of New Mexico still under US control to Arizona, it was also because I thought it would be administratively more convenient; what's more, I've also looked this annexation more like a reunification since Arizona had been a part of New Mexico till 1863 IOTL. If needed, I could rewrite the update in order to have Arizona having never been created; then, there would only be a minor border change with Cimarron.
#Russia would still need money ITTL and would still propose to sell Alaska. I don't see why it would change.
#If I'm not wrong, there was also an attempt of buying the Danish West Indies around the same time.
What changes do you propose?
First, Cimmeron is much too small to be a reasonable territory. If they really wanted it out of Indian Territory, I think they'd annex it to Kansas instead.
Second, why would they create the state of East Tennessee when it's already the sole remaining loyal part of the state of Tennessee?
Third, I don't think McClellan would win reelection when he hasn't been able to negotiate a formal peace and has demonstrated his intention to maintain a large standing army.
Second, why would they create the state of East Tennessee when it's already the sole remaining loyal part of the state of Tennessee?
Third, I don't think McClellan would win reelection when he hasn't been able to negotiate a formal peace and has demonstrated his intention to maintain a large standing army.
I've just edited the update of 1868: Cimarron, Eastern Tennessee and Ozark have disappeared; I've come back to something more like IOTL, but I've kept New Mexico integrated into Arizona.
I don't think that a formal peace would be even desirable as McClellan would become the one which sanctionned the loss of half of his country; the armistice is an almost-peace with an advantage: de jure, there is still a war. Of course, this means an implicit recognition of South as an independent state, an implicit recognition being the greatest concession which could be considered, without going up to the humiliation of a formal recognition.
The de jure state of war imply the need of a stronger standing army, especially given that there would be surely the fear of a surprise invasion.
The victory of McClellan is mostly due to the division of the Republicans with the National Unionists and Radical Republicans having still not reconciliated (it will happen later in this TL).
I don't think that a formal peace would be even desirable as McClellan would become the one which sanctionned the loss of half of his country; the armistice is an almost-peace with an advantage: de jure, there is still a war. Of course, this means an implicit recognition of South as an independent state, an implicit recognition being the greatest concession which could be considered, without going up to the humiliation of a formal recognition.
The de jure state of war imply the need of a stronger standing army, especially given that there would be surely the fear of a surprise invasion.
Agreed, but I don't think people would like that. Remember the periodic riots against the draft, even when war was being actively prosecuted. Now, when it looks like there's absolute zero chance of actually achieving anything, surely there'd be even more opposition?
In France, the conscription was almost, if not as much, as unpopular as in the USA. But the moral impact of the defeat of 1870 led to its permanent establishment.
In the USA, we would have something like that. 100,000 men, it's less than in wartime period, just 4 times the OTL size if I'm correct. There would be around 30 to 35,000 volunteers (or maybe more), an additional number due to a will of defending the Union likely stronger than IOTL (a Confederate is more dangerous than an Indian). The remainder would consist of conscripts.
For that, I don't think that a long military service would be required: some months to a year.
In the USA, we would have something like that. 100,000 men, it's less than in wartime period, just 4 times the OTL size if I'm correct. There would be around 30 to 35,000 volunteers (or maybe more), an additional number due to a will of defending the Union likely stronger than IOTL (a Confederate is more dangerous than an Indian). The remainder would consist of conscripts.
For that, I don't think that a long military service would be required: some months to a year.