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shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
A totally random map, because I haven't made one in quite a while. Don't ask too many questions.

c6l2y00.png

Bar the flags of the UK and Northern Ireland, I can't complain much.

BUT CORNWALL ARGHHH

*cough* Sorry, that's not aimed specifically at you, but it's a trope in Alt-History that I'm finding increasingly frustrating.
 
Bar the flags of the UK and Northern Ireland, I can't complain much.

BUT CORNWALL ARGHHH

*cough* Sorry, that's not aimed specifically at you, but it's a trope in Alt-History that I'm finding increasingly frustrating.

Actually, it looks like Cornwall is devolved in this map, rather than independent.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Actually, it looks like Cornwall is devolved in this map, rather than independent.
That's what I mean, devolved Cornwall grinds me right up for reasons that are apparent right now. I would be accepting if we went devo-max on every region and Cornwall was part of the South West Province, but a straight Scottish-Style Cornwall is a nightmare scenario.

It's a good enough map (bar what I've already said about the flags), but Cornwall really bugs me.
 
That's what I mean, devolved Cornwall grinds me right up for reasons that are apparent right now. I would be accepting if we went devo-max on every region and Cornwall was part of the South West Province, but a straight Scottish-Style Cornwall is a nightmare scenario.

It's a good enough map (bar what I've already said about the flags), but Cornwall really bugs me.

Cornwall already has a devolution package. Also, the map doesn't show how much devolution Wales and Cornwall has - maybe the rest of England has lower levels of devolution that doesn't merit notice on the map.

But I do sympathise with the GAAAAAH!-ing.
 
They've also got the least loyalty to the countries they're in, often times don't even speak the language, are probably missing large amounts of important documents to prove their education qualifications, would be seen as outsiders by locals who are feeling extra paranoid with the world being turnd on it's head, etc. Most would have tried to stay, but would have found it a massive headache. It's not like they hopped on boats immediately and sailed away (well for the most part, you'll obviously have a few wingnuts), it was the results of months or years of struggling to adjust.

Loyalty is pointless if your hope country literally no longer exists. Do you really think a couple of OAPs from Florida and a class of teenagers on a school trip from Iowa are going to team up and fight for the American Way (TM)? It's an apocalypse, they keep their head down and do what they are told. Language really isn't an issue if you're talking about British and American tourists in France, there are enough people in France who speak English and plenty of ex-pats who live there now with barely any French. Documents I'll grant you would be missing, but this is literally an apocalyptic scenario. If the government somehow survives then it's full World War Z-style reformation: astrophysicists, bankers and checkout clerks get retrained as farmers, unwillingly if necessary. There is no way you would let several thousand potential workers leave: martial law is a certainty, and I don't think Americans usually take their guns on holiday with them.

I just don't see it, sorry. At best you have certain areas of neighbouring counties fenced off as 'cultural homelands', but any mass exodus would be treason in a world where you need all the hands you can get.

That's what I mean, devolved Cornwall grinds me right up for reasons that are apparent right now. I would be accepting if we went devo-max on every region and Cornwall was part of the South West Province, but a straight Scottish-Style Cornwall is a nightmare scenario.

It's a good enough map (bar what I've already said about the flags), but Cornwall really bugs me.

It was really only a quick thing. As pointed out all you have marked are the three major nations and their various 'autonomous areas', with deliberately no level of detail implied. Cornwall and the Isle of Man have the same colour just to show that they have some level of independence from England, not that they are equal.

And what's wrong with the flags? :( I thought they were dull and uncontroversial enough to be realistic.
 
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I reserve the right to do a mega-Lebanon map though

And here it is. Not a huge story behind it other than a different carving-up of the Ottoman Empire, favouring pan-Arabists. As a counterbalance, Suleiman Frangieh proposes a Federation of the Levant, composing Greater Lebanon, Alevite Syria, and northern Palestine. To this is added the Sanjak of Alexandretta after a short-lived union with the State of Aleppo (the Levant seen at the time as more stable than Turkey, which was perceived as on the verge of falling into Bolshevism) and southern Palestine as the Jerusalem Autonomy, as it became clear that the Jewish and Arab populations were incapable of forming a state (unlike OTL there is no formal Western backing for a Jewish state, although American evangelicals send money and weapons, while the Arab Federation does the same for the Palestinians).

Greater%20Lebanon_1.png~original
 
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shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
And what's wrong with the flags? :( I thought they were dull and uncontroversial enough to be realistic.
The Flag of The UK would never be accepted because it uses the colours of the British Republican Movement, and given the 'strong sense of history' in the Establishment, it would be viewed as unacceptable to be flown for the Kingdom. It'd be more likely that the Flag of St. David (Black) would be accepted as the backing colour.

The flag of Northern Ireland is more pedantic, as it would be the traditional flag of Ulster, instead of a saltire.
 
And an interestingly silly idea I'd had a couple weeks ago. Essentially, the closest point between England and France is no longer Calais, but instead Alderney. Cherbough becomes the Calais analogue.

Calais.png


I'd imagine in this scenario, the UK would retain control over Normandy (being much more strategically important and easier to reinforce) and possibly Brittany as well. Calais could also retain its English status as an extra territorial exclave (French Gibraltar) but I find that far less likely.
 
Beautiful - and clever use of the Red Hot Chili Peppers references.

---

Another map that's been nearly finished for nearly two years - based on a larger scenario I want to do at some point called Weimar Forever. The idea was to figure out how far a democratic-populist Germany could push against Versailles and survive.

I don't know about the Polish Corridor. IIRC that was non-negotiable as the Allies feared a landlocked Poland would become an economic dependency of Germany. I think if you're looking for how far Germany can push against Versailles, that is probably the line in the sand. Unless France and Germany have decided to team up and dominate Europe together politically/economically in EU-conspiracy-theory-esque fashion?
 
  1. I'd imagine in this scenario, the UK would retain control over Normandy (being much more strategically important and easier to reinforce) and possibly Brittany as well. Calais could also retain its English status as an extra territorial exclave (French Gibraltar) but I find that far less likely.
English? I imagine migration would be rather different.
 
The Flag of The UK would never be accepted because it uses the colours of the British Republican Movement, and given the 'strong sense of history' in the Establishment, it would be viewed as unacceptable to be flown for the Kingdom. It'd be more likely that the Flag of St. David (Black) would be accepted as the backing colour.

Black would be very weird for me, having lived in Durham for four years (though the other one is just Nottinghamshire anyway).

More importantly though, any new flag would have to be decided by public vote. And I would very much doubt that the man on the street would care that red-white-green were the republican colours hundreds of years ago. They're more likely to reject the red-white-black for looking too 'Nazi-like'.

Again I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but I really doubt they would ever come up in a realistic situation.

The flag of Northern Ireland is more pedantic, as it would be the traditional flag of Ulster, instead of a saltire.

You really think the other half of Ulster would accept that? No way. The red and gold saltire is a good, simple combination of the Ulster and St Patrick's flags, far better than the English-inspired previous flag. Maybe you do get something else, but there is no way an autonomous Northern region in the Irish republic would use any direct Ulster symbolism.
 
English? I imagine migration would be rather different.
Possibly. Celtic migration likely wouldn't change. Nor would the Roman invasions. And if those remain relatively unchanged, then wouldn't the Angles and Saxons and Jutes still board their longboats and sail west? I mean sure the likely result would essentially be that of a British islands that have a different dominant force. I feel the migration patterns would likely remain the same.
 
And an interestingly silly idea I'd had a couple weeks ago. Essentially, the closest point between England and France is no longer Calais, but instead Alderney. Cherbough becomes the Calais analogue.

View attachment 278696

I'd imagine in this scenario, the UK would retain control over Normandy (being much more strategically important and easier to reinforce) and possibly Brittany as well. Calais could also retain its English status as an extra territorial exclave (French Gibraltar) but I find that far less likely.
Farage has really outdone himself this time...
 
Loyalty is pointless if your hope country literally no longer exists. Do you really think a couple of OAPs from Florida and a class of teenagers on a school trip from Iowa are going to team up and fight for the American Way (TM)? It's an apocalypse, they keep their head down and do what they are told. Language really isn't an issue if you're talking about British and American tourists in France, there are enough people in France who speak English and plenty of ex-pats who live there now with barely any French. Documents I'll grant you would be missing, but this is literally an apocalyptic scenario. If the government somehow survives then it's full World War Z-style reformation: astrophysicists, bankers and checkout clerks get retrained as farmers, unwillingly if necessary. There is no way you would let several thousand potential workers leave: martial law is a certainty, and I don't think Americans usually take their guns on holiday with them.

I just don't see it, sorry. At best you have certain areas of neighbouring counties fenced off as 'cultural homelands', but any mass exodus would be treason in a world where you need all the hands you can get.

A nation is an idea. Obviously pensioners aren't very good settlers, but teenagers from Iowa? Definitely a likely group to strain under French government and culture. And language will be an issue. Most people in Quebec know English, but if you're an entitled Anglophone who's looking down on Francophones you'll find that people suddenly 'don't know' English, and even if you try to be polite most people in France will have passable, but not perfect English.

As for keeping people prisoner, when you're rationing fuel (and therefore food) and everyone is demanding unity those loud Americans who refuse to accept European ideas (like hate speach laws, plenty of social ideals, etc.) are going to be people the average person wants out and no longer 'mooching'. When the apocalypse happens xenophobia is going to go up, and the Americans will be seen as a drain and scapegoats. I'm sure there'd be a number who would want to stay and find themselves on boats.
 
Black would be very weird for me, having lived in Durham for four years (though the other one is just Nottinghamshire anyway).

More importantly though, any new flag would have to be decided by public vote. And I would very much doubt that the man on the street would care that red-white-green were the republican colours hundreds of years ago. They're more likely to reject the red-white-black for looking too 'Nazi-like'.

Ironically it's identical to a flag I did for South East England Euroregion ages ago.
 
Beedok, I'm not sure why (well, that straight line in the Sahara doesn't help) but I'm a bit less fond of World F than previous maps. Not that I wouldn't choose it over a World like D.

Here's another ISOT map

Devanagari ISOT World- फ ('Ph'). Devanagari and other Indian scripts were always much more precise in their usage than other alphabets; Linguistics as a field was invented in India. Though a language like Hindi has more sounds than one like English, the advent of Persian/Arab/Turkish conquerors and later British ones has brought even more sounds into the language. Several of the sounds needed for the pronunciation of foreign words needed a letter, and so the standard has been to add a dot to a pre-existing letter for a different pronunciation. 'फ' is 'Pha', but with a dot ('फ़') it becomes pronounced as 'Fa.' Ultimately (this won't affect this map, but it will later ones) I decided to count these as the same letter, since in more 'pure' (rural/dialects never under Muslim rule/re-Sanskritized) speech, foreign sounds are dropped entirely.

In this world nations whose Hindi name starts with फ have ISOTed to a human-less earth which diverged about four million years ago from our own. Like with Beedok's map there's France (फ़्रान्स- 'Fraans'), Fiji (फ़िजी- 'Fijee'), and Finland (फ़िनलैण्ड- 'Finlaend'), but there's also Palestine (फ़िलिस्तीन- 'Filisteen') and the Philippines (फ़िलीपीन्स- 'Fileepeens').

untitled_by_goliath_maps-da7uoed.png


It is, of course, a France-dominated world. Nevertheless, France is precarious. GDP is only growing as more colonies are built in far-away places, but even there Politicians worry of a stagnation like what has gripped Metropolitan France. In the first few decades after the event, large numbers of Socialist Communes, Cult Movements, Rogues with large followings, disgruntled Tourists not happy in France, and businesses ready to leave began setting up their own settlements throughout Europe; though quite a lot of the original died off after the first winter on this few-degrees-cooler-than-ours World, the ones that survived prospered enough to keep more settlers coming. As France has increasingly had to contend with the prospect of do-it-yourself states being set-up in Germany and Eastern Europe, it has worked closely with Finland to use the European Union (now headquartered in Helsinki) to act as a filter on 'acceptable states'. Some of the best-run states accepted into the common currency are Skane (built up mostly ethnic Swedes leaving Finland), Spain (or the non-French bits that is), and Turkey (founded by French Muslims who wanted to have their own state but remain Democratic and allied to France- mostly speaks French and Arabic). Some of the wackier communes in Germany, the proudly English anglophone states on the islands, and a Sharia state in North Africa have more cordial or even sometimes hostile relations with Paris.
France has reluctantly been pushed to resume a colonial empire of the seas- much of the Islands and French Guina controlled by France are now more Pro-French than ever, but they do sometimes wish for more leadership. The most decisive action taken at high sea was the annexation of Fiji after the islands descended into civil war and rule by a Cannibal dictator. Currently the Fijans are spread through the Pacific and even European France as low-wage workers- evidence to some that for all France's talks of 'not resuming imperialism' such a resumption may be underway.
The two halves of Palestine were happy to see Israel go, but neither were happy to see one another. The Palestinian Liberation Organization is larger and better run (being mostly a Democracy, and more secular), but Hamas has been energetically trying to make up for its smaller size by settling the Nile River valley. The two have fought three wars, each one ending with a French-supported peace agreement. Meanwhile, more Palestinians have moved to France, Turkey, or set up other states throughout the Eastern Mediterranean.
By far the most populous state on the globe, and rapidly catching up to France, is the Philippines Empire. For famine, corruption, and crime, Duterte proved to be the perfect man. For dealing with a rising insurgency (both Islamic and Democratic in nature) in the South, he proved heavy handed enough to encourage the rebels. After decades of a war which would not end, a general of the Philippine government declared himself Emperor, and made peace with the mostly Islamic (but sometimes Catholic) states of the south and with the very Catholic rebel colony in Vietnam. Since then the region has gotten along better, although the English speaking elites of cities have protested the populist and authoritarian rule of what has become a monarchy. The Philippines, in technology and economy is set to one day eclipse France, as it has in population, though such a beating may be what France needs to edge itself out of decline doldrums.
 
It's the French blue partially, it just doesn't look good alone with terra nullis green. Created an off balance colour scheme.
 
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