Map Thread IX

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's no way that the Prussians get to hold on to Hanover; the Hanoverians were one of the few forces able to give the Prussians at least a bruising IOTL, and any French intervention ITTL is going to quickly led to an uprising in the conquered kingdom. Besides which, the Hapsburgs certainly aren't going to throw one of the closest allies under the bus in any 'Austria wins' scenario.
 
Couple of comments:
It seems to me that Hohenzollern is put in the hands of a different branch of the family - the province only came under the control of the Kingdom of Prussia in 1849/50, after all, and the last of the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen line became the Kings of Romania, so I'm sure that your conference could work something out.
I am frankly amazed that an Austria which has won against Prussia would give up Venice without a fight. I think you'd need to do a lot of work to justify that.

The former Count of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen becomes King of Romania in 1866 just like OTL (before outbreak of the war). I've also planned something for the even more minor branch of Hohenzollern-Hechingen... ;)

The course of the war isn't as decisive as my wording might have suggested. For example the Battle of Trautenau/Trutnov on June 27th ends like OTL in a tactical victory for Austria, the Battle of Gitschin (Jičín) ends in contrast to OTL in a draw (OTL was a Prussian victory), while Königgrätz (Sadová) is only a minor Prussian victory. So overall a draw when it comes to Austro-Prussian battles. Only French intervention and occupation of the Niederrhein makes Prussia loose.

The Italian front is... interesting yet similiar to OTL. In OTL Italy performed terribly at first and only Giribaldi was able to score some victories, nearly capturing Trent. Also Austria won a suprise naval victory in OTL despite Italian naval superiority. Here the land battles are just as OTL, but Italy gets a naval victory. Then Napoleon III suggests giving up Venetia and Friuli in exchange for a small monetary concession (with Nappy's priorities being weakening both Austria and Prussia and setting up an potential ally, namely Italy).

EDIT:

There's no way that the Prussians get to hold on to Hanover; the Hanoverians were one of the few forces able to give the Prussians at least a bruising IOTL, and any French intervention ITTL is going to quickly led to an uprising in the conquered kingdom. Besides which, the Hapsburgs certainly aren't going to throw one of the closest allies under the bus in any 'Austria wins' scenario.

In OTL Hanover won against Prussia with so heavy losses they surrendered because of that, true. But as mentioned above the war is indecisive until Nappy comes along and helps the Bavarians near the Niederrhein. Overall not a genuine victory for Austria, but WAY better than what they achieved in OTL. Though I can imagine that the Austrians at least push for Prussia to return the in OTL confiscated "Welfenfond" to the now deposed House of Hanover.
 
There's no way that the Prussians get to hold on to Hanover; the Hanoverians were one of the few forces able to give the Prussians at least a bruising IOTL, and any French intervention ITTL is going to quickly led to an uprising in the conquered kingdom. Besides which, the Hapsburgs certainly aren't going to throw one of the closest allies under the bus in any 'Austria wins' scenario.

Plus if the French join in before or immediately following the Battle of Langensalza, Hannover may not surrender then (encouraged by more allies), hoping to be relieved by an attack into the Prussian Rhineland.
 
Hi folks!
Here`s an alternate USA with the results of the presidental elections of 2012.

If that's the Goebbels I think it is, I'm pretty sure he'd be to old to run for office by now.

EDIT: Also I don't think the states could change borders like that without butterflying Goebbels and Communism.
 
A simple map showing a Germany (in the broader sense of the word) from a world in which Bismarck is assassinated in 1866, which leads to Prussian ambassador in Brussels Hermann Ludwig von Balan to be recalled to Berlin and named new Prussian Minister President. The Austro-Prussian War still takes place, however not only are the Prussian forces less lucky when it comes to Austria, but their opponents also manage to draw France into the conflict. As a result Prussia looses the German Civil War though the German Confederation is still doomed.

Central Europe is restructured in the Peace of Metz, leading to Austria (since 1867 Austria-Hungary like OTL) ceding Venetia to Italy (Napoleon III was nice enough NOT to attack Italy) and the North German Federation being founded, led by Prussia. Also the groundworks for the South German Federation were led during this peace conference.

In terms of territorial changes inside Germany:
Prussia looses the Saarland (which is basically the Saar protectorate minus the Saarpfalz owned by Bavaria) to France, the Hultschiner Ländchen, formerly part of the partitioned Duchy of Troppau, was ceded to Austria and Hohenzollern was lost to Württemberg.
However Prussia was allowed to keep Schleswig-Holstein, as well as the occupied Kingdom of Hannover and the territories of the Grand Duchy of Hesse (Hesse-Darmstadt) north of the Main as well as the territories which formerly were Hesse-Homburg (since early 1866 part of the Grand Duchy). The remainder of the Hesse-Darmstadt was reorganized as the Duchy of Mainz under its old ruling dynasty. While Prussia also pushed for the annexiation of Nassau, Frankfurt and Kurhessen they refrained from doing so in exchange for paying no reparations. Last but not least Bavaria gained the exclaves of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach within their domains.

Note: I know the basemap is horrendously outdated (and probably contains a few errors) but I still wanted to map this since I will most likely turn this into a TL in August (when I have time, organising my sister's wedding is stressful...).
I find it odd that Prussia would be allowed to keep an area that they had taken from theDanes and had held in trusteeship along with Austria. The Austrians would at least demand Holstein back or as some independent state within their sphere. France had no reason to go for Saar when they wanted Palatine, Luxembourg, and a much larger slice of the Rhineland. The Catholic Hohenzollern could have taken the Catholic Rhine. The British and Belgians wouldn't stand to have the areas where their royal familes came from swallowed up, especially when they had no part in the war. Of, and the Austrians might want Silesia back, Saxony to regain some land.... All depends on whether or not the Russians and Austrians are holding up Prussia to avoid a liberal revolution or Polish revolts.
 
If that's the Goebbels I think it is, I'm pretty sure he'd be to old to run for office by now.

EDIT: Also I'm don't think you could bring about those state changes without butterflying Goebbels and Communism.

Not to mention Mr "Westerwave" and Mrs Honecker.
 
Plus if the French join in before or immediately following the Battle of Langensalza, Hannover may not surrender then (encouraged by more allies), hoping to be relieved by an attack into the Prussian Rhineland.

Exactly. The Hanoverians simply aren't going to stop fighting ITTL, and any French intervention is going to involve 'liberating' Hanover from Prussian occupation.

EDIT: The French could have had some 250,000 troops into the Prussian Rhineland within two weeks. By contrast at Sadowa, easily the largest battle of the entire war IOTL, the Hohenzollerns only had some 221,000 men in all. There's no way the Prussians can afford to fight a two-front war against both the Austrians, and her German allies, especially the Hanoverians, and the French. Not in 1866.
 
Exactly. The Hanoverians simply aren't going to stop fighting ITTL, and any French intervention is going to involve 'liberating' Hanover from Prussian occupation.

EDIT: The French could have had some 250,000 troops into the Prussian Rhineland within two weeks. By contrast at Sadowa, easily the largest battle of the entire war IOTL, the Hohenzollerns only had some 221,000 men in all. There's no way the Prussians can afford to fight a two-front war against both the Austrians, and her German allies, especially the Hanoverians, and the French. Not in 1866.
Then the Dutch could try connecting to Luxembourg and come up against Belgium going for Eupen-Malmedy. There may very well be no Austria-Hungary at all, should Austria have a smashing success, especially if they gained more German lands. Come to think of it, should we all just create a thread for this?
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Of, and the Austrians might want Silesia back, Saxony to regain some land.

And with what army do they hope to enforce these demands? Prussia may not win the war, but the Austrians have no ability to make these demands a reality. Not to mention France isn't going to give their biggest competitor in Italy that much more weight.
 
It was a map to show what the USA would look like if every state secession attempt or threat succeeded. Its somewhere in this Map Thread.

Yep I think you're right. Here's your map on top and his map on the bottom.

Untitled.png
 
My MOTF entry:

Excerpt taken from Professor Julian Orsini of Londinium's text The Roman Far East.

"When discussing the Roman conquest of Persia, it is criminal to not deviate slightly and discuss the two Ursinaic Empires. Though the second is better known and had more of an effect on our own history, the first is equally as important.

The First Ursinaic Empire was one of the most unique states ever built by mankind, not just for its idiosyncratic political system and early treatment of men and women as equal, but for the animals it was based on: the Semetic and Germanic Urs.*

An oddity, especially considering that the Caucasus was on of the first places to adopt the horse, but most historians agree that a plague killed off the horse population in the mountains, and the local tribes, who were Germanic in origin, responded by domesticating the Germanic Urs north of the main ridge and the Semetic Urs in the southern area approximately 2000 years before the founding of Rome.

Little is known about the history of this area until a minor Greek chronicler, Acacius wrote about it around 30 years before the founding of Rome, however that document has controversial due to the early year of its writing.

The first real account of the Ursinaic cultures comes from an Ursinaic scholar, Jokhas of Kierk, during the reign of the First Empress, Amelei I (Reigned 28-41 AUC). In Jokhas' document, he described the two cultures that existed prior to the founding of the Empire. The 'Ursine Kraig' and the 'Kaiokylader Ryekyas.' The Ursine Kraig, a horde-like state under the rule of the Iron Ryek, was by far the dominant of these states, using the Germanic variant of the Urs, and in 22 AUC, embarked on a set of conquests of the southern city-states, which had adopted a more Persian culture through minor amounts of trade and used the Semetic Urs for farming and food.

By 28 AUC, Amelei I had united the Kaiokylader Ryekyas under the rule of the Ursine Horde and declared herself Iron Ryeka of the Kraig and the Kaiokyladers, a title approximately equal to Emperor in terms of authority.

Throughout the ensuing years, Amelei's successors conquered the entire Caucasus region for the Empire using their Urs forces, reaching the largest extent under Ryeka Natakha II, the Golden Empress in 251 AUC. After Natakha II's death, the Empire began to rapidly contract and break apart, eventually splitting into the Six Ursine Kingdoms by 300 AUC. However, their successful use of the Urs in warfare and farming later led to a resurgence under Ryeka Kanthel I, the Iron Queen, who created the Second Empire in 381 AUC."
-----------------------------
*The Syrian and Eurasian Brown Bears, OTL

So, in summary, a Germanic Empire in the Caucasus using Bears instead of Horses after a plague wiped out the horse population in the Caucasus in the 3000s BC, causing the Brown Bear to be domesticated. Rome still comes into being (though differently), as the culture has very little interaction with the outside world before the Empire is created.

The map itself shows the preceding states in 21 AUC and the Empire at it's greatest extent in 251 AUC.

MC61-3.png
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top