Ooh. Can I borrow this idea for Titulus? You might just have solved an issue I've been having...Scenario: Henry II of France dies before having children. I might be a little wacko here.
Francois I, King of France (b.1494: d.1547) m. Claude I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1499: d.1524) (a), Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (b.1498: d.1558) (b)
1a) Louise, Princess of France (b.1515: d.1518)2a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1516: d.1524)3a) Francois III, Dauphin of France and Duke of Brittany (b.1518: d.1536)- never married, had no issue4a) Henry, Dauphin of France (b.1519: d.154) m. Catherine de Medici, Countess of Auvergne (b.1519: d.1589) (a)- had no issue5a) Madeleine, Princess of France (b.1520: d.1537) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1512: d.1542) (a)- had no issue6a) Charles IX, King of France (b.1522: d.1557) m. Maria, Archduchess of Austria (b.1528: d.1610) (a)1a) Louis, Dauphin of France (b.1547: d.1553)2a) Philippe I, King of France (b.1550: d.1581) m. Bonne, Archduchess of Austria (b.1558: d.1581) (a)1a) Francois II, King of France (b.1579)3a) Francois, Duke of Orleans (b.1552: d.1590) m. Luisa Clara Sforza (b.1551: d.1612) (a)1a) Jeanne de Valois, Mademoiselle d'Orleans (b.1568)2a) Eleonore de Valois (b.1572: d.1574)3a) Renee de Valois-Orleans (b.1574)4a) Stillborn Son (c.1575)5a) Louise de Valois-Orleans (b.1577: d.1578)6a) Hercule, Duke of Orleans (b.1579)7a) Bonne de Valois-Orleans (b.1581)4a) Charles, Duke of Anjou (b.1553: d.1620) m. Joan de Montmorency, Countess of Auvergne (b.1548: d.1599) (a)1a) Madeleine of Valois, Mademoiselle d'Anjou (b.1584)2a) Jean, Duke of Anjou (b.1587)5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1555) - twin6a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1555) - twin7a) Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1523: d.1574) m. Muzio Sforza, Duke of Milan (c.1520: d.1552) (a),1a) Francesco III Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1546: d.1592) m. Lucrezia de' Medici (b.1545: d.1561) (a), Barbara, Archduchess of Austria (b.1539: d.1571) (b), Antoinette de Montmorency (b.1555: d.1619) (c)1b) Anna Bianca Sforza (b.1566)2b) Ludovico Sforza (b.1567: d.1585)3b) Stillborn Son (c.1569)4b) Elisabetta Maria Sforza (b.1570)5c) Francesco IV Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1576)6c) Antonia Sforza (b.1579)7c) Stillborn Son (c.1580)8c) Lucia Caterina Sforza (b.1583)9c) Stillborn Son (c.1585)2a) Valentina Maria Sforza (b.1549: d.1581) m. Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara (b.1533: d.1597) (a)- had no issue3a) Luisa Clara Sforza (b.1551: d.1612) m. Francois, Duke of Orleans (b.1552: d.1590) (a)- had issue--
Catherine de Medici, Countess of Auvergne (b.1519: d.1559) m. Henry, Dauphin of France (b.1519: d.1544), Francois de Montmorency, Duke of Montmorency (b.1530: d.1579) (a)
1b) Joan de Montmorency, Countess of Auvergne (b.1548: d.1599) m. Henry III, King of Navarre (b.1553: d.1583), Charles, Duke of Anjou (b.1553: d.1620) (b)1a) Anne I, Queen of Navarre (b.1572)2a) Stillborn Son (c.1576)3b) Madeleine of Valois, Mademoiselle d'Anjou (b.1584)4b) Jean, Duke of Anjou (b.1587)2b) Stillborn Son (c.1552)3b) Antoinette de Montmorency (b.1555: d.1619) m. Francesco III Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1546: d.1592) (a)- had issueSome things that happened:
- Alternate Treaty of Crépy is signed wherein Maria of Spain's dowry Franche-Comté was confirmed, but Francis I of France pushes for an independent Milan in which he will marry his remaining daughter Marguerite de Valois to Milanese pretender Muzio Sforza. Charles V initially offers a marriage between Marguerite and his son, but Francis is firm that, if he is to give up his claims to Naples, he will pass on his Milanese claims to his daughter. Marguerite, as part of her dowry, is granted the title Duchess of Berry, which she will pass onto her son, should she have one.
- Catherine de Medici remained unmarried until 1546, when the Dauphin, who was fond of his sad sister-in-law, chose to endorse a match between her and the eldest son of his ally, Anne de Montorency. Catherine was not pleased, having been married to a future King at one point, but chooses to maintain her position as an ally to the coming government.
- Marguerite proves an able and popular mistress of Milan, even as her husband struggles in his role. The two are not close, and when Muzio takes a lover in 1551, Marguerite effectively takes over rule of Milan, even going as far as to not consult him on the naming of their third and final child, Luisa Clara Sforza - rumoured to be the product of an affair. When Muzio is murdered in his bed with his lover in 1552, it is rumoured that Marguerite ordered their deaths, but these rumours were...discouraged. Marguerite was uncomfortable with a long regency without support, and leaned heavily on her brother until his death in 1557, upon which she was forced to look for more local support. Her eldest son would marry in 1560 Lucrezia de' Medici, who died barely a year later. This was paired with her elder daughter's marriage to the Duke of Ferrara, in a marriage that would produce no children and ended upon her death of malaria at 32 - although Valentina Maria Sforza was an incredibly popular figure in the court of Alfonso d'Este. Marguerite would eventually look to Austria for her son's remarriage, with the older bride of Barbara of Austria arriving in Milan in 1564. At 25, she was 7 years the Duke of Milan's senior, but the two were extremely close, and Marguerite funnelled her focus in a glorious match for her youngest child. That match? Her brother's second son, Francois, Duke of Orleans, who would visit Milan in 1565 and write to his mother concerning his affections towards his cousin. Marguerite's success in the marriage secured her return to the French court, only to find herself drawn home in 1571 with the death of her daughter-in-law. Despite being distraught, she stressed the need for a strong consort in Milan, and in 1574 her son remarried again, this time to the younger surviving daughter of Catherine de Medici, a less glorious match, but a rich one. While Antoinette's son by Francesco III Sforza would eventually succeed his father, while Marguerite would die shortly before his birth.
- Maria of Spain proves to be an unpopular figure at the French court. While pretty, she's shy and reserved, and her relationship with her husband quickly collapses following the death of Francis I of France, who had acted as a protector of his daughter-in-law. After the traumatic birth of stillborn twin daughters in 1555, Maria and Charles stop sharing a bed ever, and upon his tragic early death in 1557 of drowning while swimming with a mistress, she takes the regency for their eldest surviving son. Maria obviously takes a pro-Hapsburg foreign strategy, but struggles to balance that with her new French priorities. In 1559 she betroths her son to Joanna of Austria - her first cousin daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor, but this proves extremely unpopular amongst the French aristocracy, who see the marriage as a failure of marital policy, particularly after she caves to her second son's marriage wish for a Milanese match.
- In 1566, after years of hesitation, her 16 year old son works with the Duke of Montmorency to remove her from power, and negotiates for a new Hapsburg match - this time to the only daughter of Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor and his bride Catherine of Poland. While Maximilian is upset that his sister has been snubbed, he agrees to marry his daughter to the King of France, and in 1570 the 12 year old bride arrives in Paris, where the two are married in a public display. Worried about his Queen's health, he waits to consummate the marriage until 1574, and even then, they do not begin sharing a bed regularly until 1577 - partially due to his many mistresses. However, he becomes faithful to his bride shortly before she falls pregnant with their son Francois, and remains so for the rest of their brief marriage. In 1581, pregnant for the second time, the Queen demands the two go for a picnic in the middle of Spring. Unfortunately, their carriage tips on muddy ground and , unable to get out, the two are crushed to death. The Regency is initially taken by the Duke of Orleans, who eventually returns his mother to power after his wife falls ill in the mid-1580s. Maria's militant stamping out of Protestantism is not popular, and her youngest son will remove her from power in 1588, having cemented his position of moderate via a marriage to the widowed Countess of Auvergne shortly after his brother's death - the lady being known for her religious saloons and unhappy marriage to Henry III of Navarre. The two manage to walk the line well until the infant King's regency is ended in 1597. Although Maria of Spain is given a place at court, she is deeply upset by her son's betrayal, and retired to a convent in 1600.
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Ooh. Can I borrow this idea for Titulus? You might just have solved an issue I've been having...
POD: Philip II born female. @isabella @Dragonboy @Kellan Sullivan @GameBawesome
Charles V, HRE (1500-1558) m. a) Isabella of Portugal (1503-1539), b) Maria of Portugal (1521-1577)
1a) Isabella (1527-1598) m. Maximilian II, HRE (1527-1576)
2a) Maria (1528-1603) m. Sigismund II of Poland (1520-1572)
3a) Joanna (1535-1573) m. John Manuel of Portugal (1537-1554)
4b) Philip II of Spain/I of Portugal (1541-1599) m. a) Elisabeth of France (1545-1568), b) Maximiliana Maria of Bavaria (1552-1614)
5b) Charles III of Burgundy (1543-1615) m. a) Barbara of Austria (1539-1572), b) Anna Juliana Gonzaga (1566-1621)
6b) Ferdinand I of Milan (1545-1611) m. a) Joanna of Austria (1547-1578), b) Margherita Gonzaga (1564-1618)
7b) John (1547-1578) - cardinal
8b) Manuel (1549-1602) - archbishop
9b) Eleanor (1551-1601) m. Charles IX of France (1550-1574)
Charles V, HRE (1500-1558) m. a) Isabella of Portugal (1503-1539), b) Maria of Portugal (1521-1577)
1a) Isabella (1527-1598) m. Maximilian II, HRE (1527-1576)
2a) Maria (1528-1603) m. Sigismund II of Poland (1520-1572)
3a) Joanna (1535-1573) m. John Manuel of Portugal (1537-1554)
4b) Philip II of Spain/I of Portugal (1541-1599) m. a) Elisabeth of France (1545-1568), b) Maximiliana Maria of Bavaria (1552-1614)
5b) Charles III of Burgundy (1543-1615) m. a) Barbara of Austria (1539-1572), b) Anna Juliana Gonzaga (1566-1621)
6b) Ferdinand I of Milan (1545-1611) m. a) Joanna of Austria (1547-1578), b) Margherita Gonzaga (1564-1618)
7b) John (1547-1578) - cardinal
8b) Manuel (1549-1602) - archbishop
9b) Eleanor (1551-1601) m. Charles IX of France (1550-1574)
Sure - go ahead! I was testing some ideas for my own timeline and I’m not going to use them all.
I couldn’t decide on 1542 or 1544. And apparently I forgot to put back in the 4.
Why would Karl marry his niece when François offered his daughter for him in 1540?
ITTL let's just say Eleanor intervened or something...a Portuguese match is quite logical since OTL they intermarried a lot around that era
Prompt: Karl V marries Claude of France.
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor [1] (b. 1500) m. Claude of France (b. 1499)
[2] Eldest of Catherine of Austria and John III, survives past infancy.
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor [1] (b. 1500) m. Claude of France (b. 1499)
- Stillborn Son (b. 1517)
- Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1519) m. Maria of Portugal (b. 1521)
- Joanna of Austria (b. 1520 d. 1524)
- Anna of Austria (b. 1521) m. Afonso VI of Portugal (b. 1526) [1]
- Stillborn Twins (b. 1523)
- Ferdinand I, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1524) m. Christina of Denmark (b. 1521)
[2] Eldest of Catherine of Austria and John III, survives past infancy.
Great work! And please do Ferdinand and Isabella's tree on this TL's
Claude has two brothers, either that, or Charles exchanges Naples for Brittany.
which one?
The one you just did.
And charles will never let naples go.
On it.
True, it was too valuable, as were much of the Italian city kingdoms.
Ferdinand VI of Spain (b. 1503 d. 1564) m. Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503 d. 1539)
- Ferdinand, Prince of Asturias (b. 1524 d. 1530)
- Infanta Juana of Spain (b. 1525 d. 1527)
- John III of Spain (b. 1525 d. 1580) m. Marguerite d'Valois (b. 1523 d. 1573)
- Stillborn Son (b. 1526 d. 1526)
- Infanta Maria of Spain (b. 1527 d. 1580)
France would not hand Brittany to Charles if they had a say in the matter.
Not really. An uncle-niece match is requiring of a papal dispensation. Papal dispensation require use/waste of political capital that can rather be leveraged/needed elsewhere (like the marriage between Maria of Spain and her first cousin or Juana of Spain and her double first cousin). Karl and Marguerite are pretty unrelated (closest connection would be through their shared descent from the duc de Bourbon: Marie of Burgundy and Louise of Savoie's moms were sisters).
Also, Ferdinand explicitly forbade his daughters from marrying Karl's son OTL. Given the reasons he did so still exist, I could see him making a similar statement. More importantly, a match with Austria would be a waste for Karl's second son in Burgundy when matches with Lorraine or Cleves are far more likely to be useful.
Also, unless there's literally nobody else available, Johanna of Austria (the Habsburg Claude de Valois) is not marrying. OTL it was caused by Juana of Spain's refusal to wed Francesco de Medici (she called him the little grocer's boy) or Alfonso II d'Este (thus necessitating Barbara of Austria's match to Alfie)