Levantine empire 1000 BC-800 BC

Yun-shuno

Banned
With a POD anywhere in the second millennium how do you get a Levantine empire say a Davidic Empire as depicted in the Bible a Canaanite confederation or perhaps an empire ruled by the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, and so forth or any based off of any other group that existed in the region. And by empire I mean a power player as in can beat the Assyrians and whip the Egyptians. Oh and by the way borders must be from the Euphrates to the Egyptian border and the Nile if your ambitious.
 
The lands were too poor to ever make something that could truly be considered an empire--it's forever destined be fought over between Egypt and the dominant Fertile Crescent state in that era because they have so much better land. The Phoenician Canaanites are the most successful (and longest surviving beside the Jews) for a reason.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
The lands were too poor to ever make something that could truly be considered an empire--it's forever destined be fought over between Egypt and the dominant Fertile Crescent state in that era because they have so much better land. The Phoenician Canaanites are the most successful (and longest surviving beside the Jews) for a reason.
I think of Judaic empire or any sort of tribal confederation uniting would surely be able to prove that wrong. All it takes of course is a leader who united the various tribes either by diplomacy, religious unification or crushing them under heel. Once then it shouldn't be that difficult for them to contest the other powers.
 

Deleted member 93645

Maybe if they assimilated the Aramaeans and recruited them against the Assyrians.
 
I think of Judaic empire or any sort of tribal confederation uniting would surely be able to prove that wrong. All it takes of course is a leader who united the various tribes either by diplomacy, religious unification or crushing them under heel. Once then it shouldn't be that difficult for them to contest the other powers.

To build an empire what you're suggesting, these Jews would need Old Testament God to deliver all their enemies into his hands for that. Israel and Lebanon are nowhere near as good of a powerbase as Egypt and the Fertile Crescent, simply because of the potential of agriculture in each region.
 
In the periods before serious human states as in the period before Sumer, this would have been possible. As the centers of population where in Syria in areas like Halab, Mari and Dimshaq. However, the issues come about as the geopolitical positioning of the nations surrounding it make it too difficult for this sort of state to form after say 1800 BCE.

The reason for this is that already by this time we have Hittite, Egyptian kingdoms and Sumer/Akkad engaging I wars from all sides of the Levant. This had a balkanizing effect on the Levant as a serious state could not form as none of the large states to its periphery could allow such a state to form. This canbe seen between the Hittite wars against Halab and its Syrian coalition of sorts which was brutally put to the sword. When compared to the states surrounding it, the Levant has no defense.

Egypt is protected to the vast deserts or the extremes to its east and west deterring invasion and a vast tribal land and sparsely populated area between it and Punt.

Iraq has the luxury of the Zagros mountains (which often times tribes came from to conquer Iraq, Kassites for example) and relatively empty Iran outside of Elam.

Hattusa possessed mountain lands to its north which for the most part hemmed in the Kaska and other dangerous people. Notice the land of Pala due to the lack of natural defense was overtaken by the Kaska.

The Levant however borders all these large population bases whilst only having one natural defense in the desert to its south which is unfortunately to the tiny Arab populations. Therefore the Levant is positioned to be conquered except Ugarit, Ebla and the Phoenician cities on the coast.

We also should realize that Bronze Age Levant is one of the bloodiest places I can think of in terms of intermittent wars and invasions from opposing states, far different from that of the farming paradise of Mari or Terqa in pre Sumerian times.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
In the periods before serious human states as in the period before Sumer, this would have been possible. As the centers of population where in Syria in areas like Halab, Mari and Dimshaq. However, the issues come about as the geopolitical positioning of the nations surrounding it make it too difficult for this sort of state to form after say 1800 BCE.

The reason for this is that already by this time we have Hittite, Egyptian kingdoms and Sumer/Akkad engaging I wars from all sides of the Levant. This had a balkanizing effect on the Levant as a serious state could not form as none of the large states to its periphery could allow such a state to form. This canbe seen between the Hittite wars against Halab and its Syrian coalition of sorts which was brutally put to the sword. When compared to the states surrounding it, the Levant has no defense.

Egypt is protected to the vast deserts or the extremes to its east and west deterring invasion and a vast tribal land and sparsely populated area between it and Punt.

Iraq has the luxury of the Zagros mountains (which often times tribes came from to conquer Iraq, Kassites for example) and relatively empty Iran outside of Elam.

Hattusa possessed mountain lands to its north which for the most part hemmed in the Kaska and other dangerous people. Notice the land of Pala due to the lack of natural defense was overtaken by the Kaska.

The Levant however borders all these large population bases whilst only having one natural defense in the desert to its south which is unfortunately to the tiny Arab populations. Therefore the Levant is positioned to be conquered except Ugarit, Ebla and the Phoenician cities on the coast.

We also should realize that Bronze Age Levant is one of the bloodiest places I can think of in terms of intermittent wars and invasions from opposing states, far different from that of the farming paradise of Mari or Terqa in pre Sumerian times.
I guess the geographical determinism is the paradigm here then? I think a Levantine empire though would be truly glorious.
 
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