Lands of Red and Gold, Act II
- Thread starter Jared
- Start date
I suspect that major inroads into the Outback will come a bit later, and it's very likely that there won't be many Portuguese explorers then. There also isn't any Portuguese settlement nearby for the explorers to originate from, unlike in Brazil.
I signed up to AH.com to read this timeline and it's associated threads in full, and to say I was not disappointed would be somewhat of an understatement. The careful consideration you have put into this TL, Jared, is quite simply breathtaking. The bare excellence of the TL itself aside, your use of the forum format as more than just a string of text dumps is exemplary. My hat of course goes off to all the long-users who have engaged Jared in discussion over the years (or weeks, as it has been from my perspective). LoRAG is not just a magnificent work, but sports a magnificent paratext!
It's oddly gratifying that the Gunditjmara (or *Gunditjmara, at any rate) are finally getting — in some sense at least — the recognition they deserve. I remember at the age of 14 or 15 being taken to see the ruins of their stone buildings and the water works of Lake Condah, at a time when every history book I had ever seen propounded that no indigenous Australian group built permanent dwellings, that all were nomadic hunter-gatherers, and that if not right, it was vaguely inevitable that they would eventually have been displaced by white settlers. A few years after that someone started fish farming down near Narrawong. The irony was not lost on me.
It's oddly gratifying that the Gunditjmara (or *Gunditjmara, at any rate) are finally getting — in some sense at least — the recognition they deserve. I remember at the age of 14 or 15 being taken to see the ruins of their stone buildings and the water works of Lake Condah, at a time when every history book I had ever seen propounded that no indigenous Australian group built permanent dwellings, that all were nomadic hunter-gatherers, and that if not right, it was vaguely inevitable that they would eventually have been displaced by white settlers. A few years after that someone started fish farming down near Narrawong. The irony was not lost on me.
This seems like a useful visualization tool for those of use who can't be bothered pouring over tables of rainfall and temperature data (read: me). I can personally attest to the similarity in climate between Portland and San Francisco, although I do wonder if Fremont gets as hot as Melbourne is wont to in late summer.
I think it has great utility in figuring out what crops can Aururians import based on their climate (and other factors like soil quality which aren't pictured). In the early age of globalization, it'd be interesting to see the Nuttana for instance importing Indian crops for their own use.
[Insert usual glyph of apology for long delay in responding; life is, alas, busy enough that I'm wondering when I will ever find the time to write the next chapters both for this and ITWP.]
It was in the background, but not given a great deal of attention since I never ended up writing a full chapter on pan-Gunnagalic mythology. It, together with other aspects of sharing a common conceptual universe, is why early Plirism spread more easily amongst Gunnagalic regions than non-Gunnagalic parts of Aururia (e.g. the Atjuntja, Yadji and Bungudjimay).
The precipitation is something to watch out for. For instance, the western part of what they call South Africa is the Nullarbor, not a region noted for its vegetation ("no trees"), but still very helpful as a shorthand for working out climate.
As such, I'm not sure whether an analogue to the bandeirantes could spring up. Not as much of a local market to bring things back to, and apart from the coastal fringe, this is not the kind of terrain where you want to piss off the natives. Anyone venturing into the outback who annoys the local population will find themselves dead very quickly - even finding food or water without them is difficult.
So,bandeirantes as prospectors, certainly. Whether they'll be slavers I'm much less sure.
It's used industrially today for a variety of purposes: leather tanning and adhesive manufacturing, for instance, and also in preserving products (ropes, nets etc) and in dyes. Wattle gum also has a lot of similar functions to gum arabic. Polyphenols and proanthocyanidins (tannins) from abundant wattle bark will have all sorts of applications once Aururians figure out how to make sulphuric acid on an industrial scale, which they will do about the same time, or maybe slightly earlier, than Roebuck did in Britain in OTL.
It was in the background, but not given a great deal of attention since I never ended up writing a full chapter on pan-Gunnagalic mythology. It, together with other aspects of sharing a common conceptual universe, is why early Plirism spread more easily amongst Gunnagalic regions than non-Gunnagalic parts of Aururia (e.g. the Atjuntja, Yadji and Bungudjimay).
I'm not so sure about that. There are a variety of mystics today who are comfortable with the idea of non-linear reincarnation. None of them are major religions, granted, but I don't think it's inherently implausible that a major religion could come up with the concept. There are plenty of possible rationalisations for it, and no doubt different ones would spring up in different areas. Variants of the Novikov self-consistency principle would be one popular choice, I expect.
The doublethink in non-Plirite non-linear reincarnation is only that at the moment of rebirth, they happen back into the past. It doesn't have the same sense of "consequences flowing everywhere" that Plirism does, hence it's less of a big deal. Once they travel to the past, they just live their lives from that point. Plirism gives more of a headache because of the focus on consequences.
Likewise in the Aururian ones, then. I haven't thought this through in great detail yet, but perhaps a performance tradition sitting alongside a more practical tradition, unified by the belief that working on both enhances both mind and body.
The short version is that just about any form of sex accessory, erotic furniture, role-plays and fantasies which are feasible with their technology will be used, particularly amongst the upper classes. There's a strong overlap in the sense of sado-masochism, pain as a part of pleasure, and so forth. Their only real rule is that nothing involving animals is allowed.
Great find! Very useful for visualising similar temperatures and so forth. It's not complete because it doesn't cover precipitation - but still extremely helpful. Sydney as Buenos Aires (more or less).
The precipitation is something to watch out for. For instance, the western part of what they call South Africa is the Nullarbor, not a region noted for its vegetation ("no trees"), but still very helpful as a shorthand for working out climate.
There's Portuguese contact with northern Aururia. How much settlement there is, I'm not sure exactly, but not a lot. The climate and soil is not at all suited to European farming, and that's about the only part of Aururia where malaria is natively present. There are Portuguese missions, at least, and a trading route to the gems of the Gemlands (eventually), but this is not a place for wide-scale settlement.
As such, I'm not sure whether an analogue to the bandeirantes could spring up. Not as much of a local market to bring things back to, and apart from the coastal fringe, this is not the kind of terrain where you want to piss off the natives. Anyone venturing into the outback who annoys the local population will find themselves dead very quickly - even finding food or water without them is difficult.
So,bandeirantes as prospectors, certainly. Whether they'll be slavers I'm much less sure.
I have some prospective encounters planned between the Hunter, or his forces, and the Portuguese. I didn't specifically have bandeirantes in mind, but I might see what I can work in.
The Nuttana, oddly enough, may be less inclined to go into the interior. They tend to seek out coastal markets where they can trade, and leave the inland trade networks to others. Unlike Europeans, the Nuttana already have some idea of what's in the outback (i.e. lots of desert and not much else), so will see less value in going prospecting in there. They're more inclined to reach into areas where there's an established population they can trade with. So, some competition for the Portuguese for missions along the coast, a few wandering priests into the interior, but not as much else.
The Portuguese do have the narrow camel-road to the Gemlands, and a decent trade in muskets with the Hunter, but that was along the eastern, more fertile fringe of the outback, not the depths of the red heart. About the largest Portuguese settlement is at the Gulf of Carpentaria end of that "gem road".
Glad you like it.
Lake Condah is very much on my need-to-see list, although I haven't really had much chance to get into the vicinity yet, alas.
I'd be interested in some comparisons of precipitation too, both total and time of year, and also year-to-year variability. (It's the year-to-year variability which means that northern Australia is much less farmable than it seems from an annual precipitation chart. Whether there's summer or winter rains can make a lot of difference to which crops can grow, too.
Indian crops would probably amongst the best suited, at least those in the monsoonal belt - which is also a monsoonal climate in northern Aururia. Not as much in the north-eastern seaboard, which is wet but not as pronounced a monsoonal climate.
Let me start out by saying that I'm a Christian and don't believe in reincarnation. However, God and, presumably, Heaven are outside of space and time. Why do I say that? Because we have AMPLE experimental evidence that Einstein's view of SpaceTime being a single 4 dimensional structure is a true one.
Thus, if God created the universe, He CAN'T have created it 'at the beginning', because time is part of the universe he created.
In other words, modern physics really requires a universe where (any) creating Deity is outside of time. So, non-linear temporal reincarnation is just as plausible as 'standard' reincarnation, IF one assumes the souls move to the same 'place' as the Deity.
Obviously, that's not the world view of standard Western (or other literate) culture, but it is reasonably compatible with the oral tradition cultural concepts of cyclical time or non-linear time that I think you indicated Plirism comes out of.
Thus, if God created the universe, He CAN'T have created it 'at the beginning', because time is part of the universe he created.
In other words, modern physics really requires a universe where (any) creating Deity is outside of time. So, non-linear temporal reincarnation is just as plausible as 'standard' reincarnation, IF one assumes the souls move to the same 'place' as the Deity.
Obviously, that's not the world view of standard Western (or other literate) culture, but it is reasonably compatible with the oral tradition cultural concepts of cyclical time or non-linear time that I think you indicated Plirism comes out of.
mojojojo
Gone Fishin'
I wonder if this branch of sexuality might end up being named after them in the wider world , rather than a certain Frenchman and Austrian like in our TL
So now I'm stuck on the idea of Primitive Technology's new forge blower as the Aururian equivalent to the bellows.
"Atchuntchism", perhaps? You could insult the Europeans who practiced that OTL as acting like barbaric primitives or something to make that bit of sexuality further shameful. Especially in the age of scientific racism.
I agree. The original reason for including non-linear reincarnation in Gunnagalic religion - and which flowed through to Plirism - was to have a concept which is reasonable in itself, but not something that any major religion developed in OTL. Non-linear reincarnation has been suggested by some people in OTL - as a quick Google shows - but has not made it onto the broader conceptual stage. Having it makes for some odd interactions when Plirism is developed, but that was part of the point - I thought that like OTL religions, there often end up with some strange interpretations when pre-existing beliefs get incorporated into later religions.
That said, I think that some "purist" schools of later Plirism will dispense with the whole idea of non-linear reincarnation because they will note that nothing in the Good Man's words themselves - as later recorded - endorse the idea. It was just a concept which was so widespread in the broader Gunnagalic conceptual universe that it got adopted into it wholesale anyway.
If it ends up being named after a particular person, as in OTL, it would be either the name of a prominent Aururian noble who is particularly noted for the practice, or the European who writes about it and brings the message onto the greater world stage. If it ends up being known just as "the Atjuntja habit", then it would be based on some European mispronunciation of the Atjuntja name.
Of course, there is the complication that Atjuntja practices are not just about (consensual) pain, but because they really know how to accessorise. So summarising Atjuntja practices as *sadomasochism - while entirely plausible given how Europeans may misinterpret things - is not quite right.
I just saw that on YouTube now. That would be intriguing if the Aururian version of ironworking was so categorically different from Western traditions.
Leather walled gas pressure chambers? Bow-drill/footpump/(whatever the best interface available in a given era is) powered centrifugal fan!I agree. The original reason for including non-linear reincarnation in Gunnagalic religion - and which flowed through to Plirism - was to have a concept which is reasonable in itself, but not something that any major religion developed in OTL. Non-linear reincarnation has been suggested by some people in OTL - as a quick Google shows - but has not made it onto the broader conceptual stage. Having it makes for some odd interactions when Plirism is developed, but that was part of the point - I thought that like OTL religions, there often end up with some strange interpretations when pre-existing beliefs get incorporated into later religions.
That said, I think that some "purist" schools of later Plirism will dispense with the whole idea of non-linear reincarnation because they will note that nothing in the Good Man's words themselves - as later recorded - endorse the idea. It was just a concept which was so widespread in the broader Gunnagalic conceptual universe that it got adopted into it wholesale anyway.
If it ends up being named after a particular person, as in OTL, it would be either the name of a prominent Aururian noble who is particularly noted for the practice, or the European who writes about it and brings the message onto the greater world stage. If it ends up being known just as "the Atjuntja habit", then it would be based on some European mispronunciation of the Atjuntja name.
Of course, there is the complication that Atjuntja practices are not just about (consensual) pain, but because they really know how to accessorise. So summarising Atjuntja practices as *sadomasochism - while entirely plausible given how Europeans may misinterpret things - is not quite right.
I just saw that on YouTube now. That would be intriguing if the Aururian version of ironworking was so categorically different from Western traditions.
I missed that this was a response to the part of the thread about ironworking and for a bit through that this was in the part of the thread about sexual practices!
One matter of curiosity for me is this: how much land does a family of...say seven need to farm to meet their needs in any years where conditions don't go...extreme and unpleasant?
Not in exact terms, but a rough idea thereof.
Not in exact terms, but a rough idea thereof.
Suddenly, I think about how much the Aururians and Aotearoans might disrupt the lifecycle of the little penguins.
You're actually in a bit of luck - I did some calculations about this a few years ago when working out the Aururian crop package. Obviously conditions vary enormously depending on rainfall, soil quality, pests etc, but this is about the best working approximation I can come up with.
I based this on an "average" Aururian family of 7, and assumed an average 2000 kiloCalorie diet per day. (Adult male field workers would need more than that, but female workers somewhat less, so it's a ballpark approximation.)
Their farming land would be as follows:
Red yams - 0.65 hectares
Wattles - 0.4 hectares
Murnong or other "minor" root vegetable - 0.2 hectares
Miscellaneous crops - 0.1 hectares
Miscellaneous crops means basically everything else they grow themselves, for micronutrients or seasonings rather than staple crops, or crops for other purposes. So depending on the particular household need it would be leaf or other vegetables, fruit crops, oil seeds, fibre crops and so forth.
This gives a crop yield with about a 30% surplus over their actual nutritional requirements, meaning that the rest could cover pest losses, damages, storage losses etc, or if they have a good year, surplus for trading.
They would also need some land for their poultry (ducks or emus) - say 0.5-0.6 hectares.
So all up, a family of 7 could live in frugal but sustainable comfort on a bit less than 2 hectares, or roughly 5 acres. This is with dryland farming style. Irrigation gives a higher yield (especially for wattles and murnong, less so for red yams), and in those circumstances they could live off a smaller area.
Haven't decided yet, but will work it out whenever it becomes necessary for the actual timeline. When it comes to Aururian names, I basically never figure them out until I need them - I kind of need that as motivation to work things out.
Fairy penguins won't have been wiped out, although there will be a patchier distribution when compared to OTL. In general they will be confined to offshore islands, as OTL, but there's enough of those islands around which have little interest to humans, so the fairy penguins will survive.
Ooh, thanks for the info!
Lessee... five acres roughly equals five minimum size regulation soccer/football fields, according to what I'm reading here.
That's little enough land that you could still lazily survey it from one standing position, barring obstructions.
...Corrolary thought, Jared, though one I doubt you'd have prior calculations about: how much land do you think an family of that same size COULD farm?
You're right that I don't have exact calculations, but I would expect that in ideal circumstances a family of that size could farm up to, say, 10 acres / 4 hectares. Much depends on the crop mix, what kind of tools they have available (iron tools, in particular) and so forth, but that is probably about right for good years.
The biggest problem with Aururian farming is managing the bad years - the good years tend to be very good, but bad years can cancel it out. It's also the reason why they have such a significant percentage of their cultivated land as wattle trees - red yams yield higher in terms of calories, but wattle seeds store much better, allowing surpluses to be maintained for bad years.