Lands of Red and Gold, Act II

You're right that I don't have exact calculations, but I would expect that in ideal circumstances a family of that size could farm up to, say, 10 acres / 4 hectares. Much depends on the crop mix, what kind of tools they have available (iron tools, in particular) and so forth, but that is probably about right for good years.

The biggest problem with Aururian farming is managing the bad years - the good years tend to be very good, but bad years can cancel it out. It's also the reason why they have such a significant percentage of their cultivated land as wattle trees - red yams yield higher in terms of calories, but wattle seeds store much better, allowing surpluses to be maintained for bad years.
Nice. Thanks again for the answers!
Hm. Even accounting for expanding their food crops, that's a lot of extra space they could use for barter fodder like whatever the local 'cash crop' is. Or they could just grow fruits and other such stuff they'd like to have more of in their lives.
Assuming that they DO live in the abstracted circumstances where you only need half that to sustain yourselves.
 
Nice. Thanks again for the answers!
Hm. Even accounting for expanding their food crops, that's a lot of extra space they could use for barter fodder like whatever the local 'cash crop' is. Or they could just grow fruits and other such stuff they'd like to have more of in their lives.
Assuming that they DO live in the abstracted circumstances where you only need half that to sustain yourselves.
This is one of the reasons why they have so much in the way of herbs and spices, since they have room to grow them. Fruits and nuts are also welcome additions in many areas, as are cash crops, larger wattle-fields to allow the extraction of wattle-gum and so forth.

Perhaps the greatest use of additional land, though, is for emus. Emus provide the most abundant meat, eggs, hides and so on of any pre-Houtmanian domesticate. They are extremely useful in fertilising fields, since they can extract nitrogen from what would otherwise be waste products (wattle seed pods etc) and turn it into manure. So families with lots of spare land and good organisation often turn to emus in fertile areas, or ducks or bearded dragons in less fertile zones.

It's also worth pointing out that many of the Aururian cultures use corvee labour in the three months or so of "down time" in Aururian winter, so the farmers can't necessarily work on their crops all year round. Although the Five Rivers tend to use that for the football season instead...
 
Perhaps the greatest use of additional land, though, is for emus. Emus provide the most abundant meat, eggs, hides and so on of any pre-Houtmanian domesticate. They are extremely useful in fertilising fields, since they can extract nitrogen from what would otherwise be waste products (wattle seed pods etc) and turn it into manure. So families with lots of spare land and good organisation often turn to emus in fertile areas, or ducks or bearded dragons in less fertile zones.
Is duck and/or bearded dragon manure as beneficial to the soil as emu manure? I remember you mentioned somewhere far upthread that emu manure was unusual amongst bird poop in that it was actually suitable for saltpetre production, so perhaps the ducks don't produce as many nitrates? As for the bearded dragons… I got nothing. Reptile turds are a mystery to me.
It's also worth pointing out that many of the Aururian cultures use corvee labour in the three months or so of "down time" in Aururian winter, so the farmers can't necessarily work on their crops all year round. Although the Five Rivers tend to use that for the football season instead...
I pity the Yadji subjects around Gundidj who are corvee'd into public works projects in the heavy rain and strong winds. Numb extremities and industrial accidents ahoy! Being sent there to work on one of the Land of Five Directions famous water works could be almost Sisyphean in scope. The Yadji equivalent of Reassigned to Antarctica perhaps?
 
Is duck and/or bearded dragon manure as beneficial to the soil as emu manure? I remember you mentioned somewhere far upthread that emu manure was unusual amongst bird poop in that it was actually suitable for saltpetre production, so perhaps the ducks don't produce as many nitrates? As for the bearded dragons… I got nothing. Reptile turds are a mystery to me.
Emu manure is more useful in the sense that it returns a greater proportion of nutrients. Of course, any animal manure only returns nutrients to the soil which they in turn got from somewhere. Emus eat a greater proportion of insects and other things which visit the fields from elsewhere, plus they are better at consuming some wattle products (which are high in nitrogen since they are legumes), and so their manure is overall more useful as fertiliser.

I pity the Yadji subjects around Gundidj who are corvee'd into public works projects in the heavy rain and strong winds. Numb extremities and industrial accidents ahoy! Being sent there to work on one of the Land of Five Directions famous water works could be almost Sisyphean in scope. The Yadji equivalent of Reassigned to Antarctica perhaps?
Certainly there are a lot of casualties when producing water works (and those casualties in turn produce water works, but I digress). It involves too many people to be counted as reassigned to Antarctica, though. Their equivalent of Antarctica is the far eastern frontier, home of backwoods yokels and under threat of highland raiders. Elligal [Orbost] is their easternmost outpost, and the name translates more or less as "land's end" - i.e. where all the good qualities of the land end.
 
Emu manure is more useful in the sense that it returns a greater proportion of nutrients. Of course, any animal manure only returns nutrients to the soil which they in turn got from somewhere. Emus eat a greater proportion of insects and other things which visit the fields from elsewhere, plus they are better at consuming some wattle products (which are high in nitrogen since they are legumes), and so their manure is overall more useful as fertiliser.
Those wattles are so useful! Does anyone in Aururia run emus in non-agricultural areas, perhaps among wattles that are unpalatable to humans, but will grow in places other Aururian crops won't?
 
I'm really glad that you're still updating this TL. I don't visit the forum much these days but whenever I do, I take the time to read through this thread. It has had a profound effect on the way I look at the environment around me and has even pervaded my dreams! :D

Dream Journal entry from 22/09/2015

Reading about the influence of regional Indigenous Australian/Aururian cuisines on offworld colonies and how alien cultures have particularly taken to them. Also something about a new extinction age in a region on another planet in another system, that has been triggered by human colonisation and the colonial administration trying to reduce the extinction from spreading. I remember the name "Tomat", don't know if that was the name of the colony, region or planet. I then watched TV show about food in off-world colonies, the host looked familiar (vaguely like the Channel 9 personality Michael "Thommo" Thomson), he spoke in an Aussie accent. He was eating a "fish" dish with an alien woman. He told her it reminded him of Dhufish from his hometown in Western Australia.
 
So the time between heavy reliance on the red yam (signifying the beginner of the hunter-gardening period?) and the rise of full agriculture with the rest of the normal package being 1000 years, that has me thinking...in isolation from any sort of outside tropical crop, but with the lesser yam having taken form earlier, how long would a tropical package take to fully coalesce around it?
Further, considering that it would certainly be sufficient for no more than hunter-gardening in the early days, what would be the odds that whatever numbers actually resettled in the tropics (Not many, initially? It's a big lifestyle change for the Gunnagalic agriculturalists.) would fail to enact demographic displacement of the locally indigenous hunter gatherers, instead seeing that very population (likely larger than the settlers) adopt the same hunter-gardener lifestyle, and become the primary engine of domestication in the region?
 
I just spent a big chunk of my time reading this and it was well spent. Two questions.

1) What was the first Nangu/Nuttana voyage to Europe like?

2) Are there any Auruian animals that woukd make good fur trade sources? The even higher death toll in the Americas will make getting a supply harder.
 
2) Are there any Auruian animals that woukd make good fur trade sources? The even higher death toll in the Americas will make getting a supply harder.
Rather unlikely, at least in terms of 'fur coat' furs. Furs are usually trapped in the winter, to get the thick winter coats of the animals. There are exceptions - Persian lamb, and sheepskin coats use domestic animals.
 
IIRC there is a sort of dog-wool grown in Aururia, unless I'm totally confused ATM. But yeah, Australian animals aren't known for having good fur, at least to my knowledge. Speaking of possums though, is there much potential for them to become major pests similar to OTL New Zealand? The little bastards seem pretty adaptable, and a big brushtale is reasonably formidable to the point that I wouldn't fancy most small predators chances at taking one unscathed.
 
Rather unlikely, at least in terms of 'fur coat' furs. Furs are usually trapped in the winter, to get the thick winter coats of the animals. There are exceptions - Persian lamb, and sheepskin coats use domestic animals.
Platypi Skin Hats :p.

The Fur Trade is certainaly something the Nuttana may get involved in while in Californa.
 
Those wattles are so useful! Does anyone in Aururia run emus in non-agricultural areas, perhaps among wattles that are unpalatable to humans, but will grow in places other Aururian crops won't?
Not on a large scale. The problem is that emus are much harder to run on open country than, say, cattle. Cattle tend to herd and be capable of being grouped together. Emus... aren't. They tolerate each other's presence fine if there's enough food around, but they don't flock together or anything, but rather they run every which way.

Emus don't have quite the top speed of a horse (up to 50km/hour), but they can do a special trick with their wings where they raise one and lower the other, which means that they can do a U-turn still at top speed and keep going, while things chasing them have their momentum keep going for a while, but which time the emu is far away.

So in short, having an emu out in the open means that you will probably have no more emu. You could hobble them, potentially, but this leaves them vulnerable to predators (dingos), so it's not a great solution.

I'm really glad that you're still updating this TL. I don't visit the forum much these days but whenever I do, I take the time to read through this thread. It has had a profound effect on the way I look at the environment around me and has even pervaded my dreams! :D
Glad you like it. Updates are far fewer these days due to various other commitments, both life and one other timeline, but they're not completely stalled.

So the time between heavy reliance on the red yam (signifying the beginner of the hunter-gardening period?) and the rise of full agriculture with the rest of the normal package being 1000 years, that has me thinking...in isolation from any sort of outside tropical crop, but with the lesser yam having taken form earlier, how long would a tropical package take to fully coalesce around it?
Not as long as the initial domestication of the red yam took to be followed by full agriculture. This is partly because more tropically-suited wattles had started to be domesticated more or less as soon as the first agriculturalists reached NE NSW / SE QLD, even before the red yam appeared. Also, it is partly because this time people have the idea of farming, and more precisely of cultivating relatives of existing domesticates, and so the process is quicker than the largely "unconscious" process which happened the first time around. So still several hundred years, but much less than 1000.

Further, considering that it would certainly be sufficient for no more than hunter-gardening in the early days, what would be the odds that whatever numbers actually resettled in the tropics (Not many, initially? It's a big lifestyle change for the Gunnagalic agriculturalists.) would fail to enact demographic displacement of the locally indigenous hunter gatherers, instead seeing that very population (likely larger than the settlers) adopt the same hunter-gardener lifestyle, and become the primary engine of domestication in the region?
That could go either way. Whether hunter-gatherer populations adopted farming or were displaced varied a lot around the world, and it seemed to be partly luck and partly just the preferences of the relevant peoples. European pre-agricultural populations were more or less wiped out, for instance, and there were large-scale (but not full) population replacements over much of sub-Saharan Africa when farming spread. On the other hand, the spread of farming did not lead to the same level of displacement in, say, India or much of the Middle East.

On balance, I expect that at most one or two groups would adopt farming or precursors to farming, which would in turn allow them to displace many of the existing hunter-gatherers. So, not necessarily Gunnagalic farmers, but a reduction in cultural and linguistic diversity.

I just spent a big chunk of my time reading this and it was well spent.
Glad you liked it. :D

1) What was the first Nangu/Nuttana voyage to Europe like?
A distinctive clash of cultures, with some countries being more open than others. The Dutch were the most tolerant from a religious perspective, the French the most tolerant from a trade perspective.

I may write this up in more detail at some point.

2) Are there any Auruian animals that woukd make good fur trade sources? The even higher death toll in the Americas will make getting a supply harder.
Koalas and platypuses at least make good fur trade sources; they were used as such in OTL. Both species were brought to near-extinction as a result.

Brushtail possums were widely used too, and and were introduced into New Zealand for the purposes of starting a fur trade there (whoops). The possum fur trade continues this day, using New Zealand possums and to a lesser degree those in Tasmania (possums are protected in mainland Australia). But I'm not sure whether this is a reflection of their quality vis a vis other furs, or just better availability and sustainability.

More generally, the spread of farming in Aururia also means less habitat for such creatures relative to OTL - although the population decline from the Old World plagues may lead to recolonisation of some abandoned farming areas.

Rather unlikely, at least in terms of 'fur coat' furs. Furs are usually trapped in the winter, to get the thick winter coats of the animals. There are exceptions - Persian lamb, and sheepskin coats use domestic animals.
From what I can find, koala and platypus furs were used mostly for other purposes besides fur cloaks, but they were used widely. Estimates of the number of koala pelts collected around around 8+ million over the course of several decades. The volume of platypus hides collected was lower, but still significant.

Possum-skin cloaks catch on in Europe?
'Twould be amusing, although I'm not sure how viable it would be. Possum-skin cloaks needed a lot of possums.

IIRC there is a sort of dog-wool grown in Aururia, unless I'm totally confused ATM. But yeah, Australian animals aren't known for having good fur, at least to my knowledge. Speaking of possums though, is there much potential for them to become major pests similar to OTL New Zealand? The little bastards seem pretty adaptable, and a big brushtale is reasonably formidable to the point that I wouldn't fancy most small predators chances at taking one unscathed.
Possums are subject to a variety of predators in Australia: owls, snakes, goannas, dingos, even quolls kill some of them (though I'm not sure about adults). They also don't breed all that fast. They could potentially become a problem in some regions, but overall they're probably not that much of a threat to anywhere which has a decent selection of predators.

Platypi Skin Hats :p.
Platypus were used for rugs. :evilsmile: Koala-pelts were used for hats, amongst other things.

The Fur Trade is certainaly something the Nuttana may get involved in while in Californa.
It's a possibility. There's also the prospect that they may introduce possums to California, too. I'm not sure how well the possums would do, although if they introduce gum trees too (much as in OTL), the possums might do very well indeed.

A thought: given the great capacity of Aururian forestry to supply charcoal, is it used in any significant capacity for soil amendment?
I've wondered about this. Terra preta was a godsend in OTL for the local Amazonian population, and continues to produce self-sustaining good soils until today. Whether anyone in Aururia would stumble across the necessary combination of charcoal, bone and manure... I'm not sure. Maybe.

I do know, though, that Aururians use charcoal for a wide variety of other purposes, some more and less obvious than others. It is a significant source of fuel for their existing iron production. The production of charcoal is also linked to widespread smoking of meat as a preservative and flavouring - something which will persist in Aururian cuisine down to modern times.

Platypodes would be correct if you were trying for a Latinate plural. "Platypuses" is the least bad plural. :(

You are etymologically correct, but it's linguistically impossible to fight analogy in the long run. ;)
Both platypuses and platypi are in colloquial usage in Australia, at least. Platypodes seems to be most commonly used by insistent wikipedia editors. :confounded:
 
Short question about koalas. Any possibility for their (re)introduction in Southwestern Aururia? I was surprised to find out that koalas used to inhabit here but were driven to extinction around 10000 years ago. It would be interesting to see how Atjuntjans regard them. Apologies if you've already mentioned this topic beforehand.
 
Not as long as the initial domestication of the red yam took to be followed by full agriculture. This is partly because more tropically-suited wattles had started to be domesticated more or less as soon as the first agriculturalists reached NE NSW / SE QLD, even before the red yam appeared. Also, it is partly because this time people have the idea of farming, and more precisely of cultivating relatives of existing domesticates, and so the process is quicker than the largely "unconscious" process which happened the first time around. So still several hundred years, but much less than 1000.


That could go either way. Whether hunter-gatherer populations adopted farming or were displaced varied a lot around the world, and it seemed to be partly luck and partly just the preferences of the relevant peoples. European pre-agricultural populations were more or less wiped out, for instance, and there were large-scale (but not full) population replacements over much of sub-Saharan Africa when farming spread. On the other hand, the spread of farming did not lead to the same level of displacement in, say, India or much of the Middle East.

On balance, I expect that at most one or two groups would adopt farming or precursors to farming, which would in turn allow them to displace many of the existing hunter-gatherers. So, not necessarily Gunnagalic farmers, but a reduction in cultural and linguistic diversity.

I've wondered about this. Terra preta was a godsend in OTL for the local Amazonian population, and continues to produce self-sustaining good soils until today. Whether anyone in Aururia would stumble across the necessary combination of charcoal, bone and manure... I'm not sure. Maybe.

I do know, though, that Aururians use charcoal for a wide variety of other purposes, some more and less obvious than others. It is a significant source of fuel for their existing iron production. The production of charcoal is also linked to widespread smoking of meat as a preservative and flavouring - something which will persist in Aururian cuisine down to modern times.
Hm.
Maybe set it to a balance.
In a hypothetical scenario where the lesser yam and maori crops weren't the only gateways to the tropics, and more importantly the lesser yam didn't come way too late to make a major difference, I can imagine that the right mix of charcoal, bone, manure, and pottery fragments might be pinned down by people living in the worst soils of Northern Aururia, to make things better. It'd then be kept living knowledge as it spread along the lands and they produced more at the best rate they could, because better crop growth is always nice. That being said, it's theorized that amazonian earthworms are partially to be thanked for the process going as it did - they're believed to have been the ones that powdered and integrated the charcoal the way it was.

If it did happen, it'd be the key to the northerners growing to an intrinsically populous and wealthy civilization, by escaping the shittiness of their soil.

It clearly hasn't happened in that exact way in the official Aururia, but charcoal on it's own still has merit in soil amendment. It's good in acidic soils, protects against some soil borne crop diseases...
 
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Short question about koalas. Any possibility for their (re)introduction in Southwestern Aururia? I was surprised to find out that koalas used to inhabit here but were driven to extinction around 10000 years ago. It would be interesting to see how Atjuntjans regard them. Apologies if you've already mentioned this topic beforehand.
Reintroduction of koalas is possible, but it would be more of a late seventeenth or eighteenth century idea. Essentially, this is the time when population decline has brought about more regrowth of forests and the like, which might lead to people importing koalas as either exotic pets or as part of the fur trade.

Hm.
Maybe set it to a balance.
In a hypothetical scenario where the lesser yam and maori crops weren't the only gateways to the tropics, and more importantly the lesser yam didn't come way too late to make a major difference, I can imagine that the right mix of charcoal, bone, manure, and pottery fragments might be pinned down by people living in the worst soils of Northern Aururia, to make things better. It'd then be kept living knowledge as it spread along the lands and they produced more at the best rate they could, because better crop growth is always nice. That being said, it's theorized that amazonian earthworms are partially to be thanked for the process going as it did - they're believed to have been the ones that powdered and integrated the charcoal the way it was.
There's a couple of challenges with this. The first is that anywhere in northern Aururia will have the the shortest time to develop new soil techniques, and the smallest population with which to develop the necessary inventions. I'd been thinking that if terra preta developed anywhere, it would be in the depleted soils of the Interregnum Five Rivers, where there was a longer agricultural tradition, a pressing need, and rather more people to seek to invent it.

The second and perhaps greater challenge is that the problem with northern Aururian soils is not just lack of some key nutrients. It's also an overpresence of various heavy metals, such as iron. This also creates problems for crops which cannot tolerate too high levels of those metals. I don't know whether terra preta would help in those circumstances or not - for instance, if the iron also interferes with the right kind of earthworms.

It clearly hasn't happened in that exact way in the official Aururia, but charcoal on it's own still has merit in soil amendment. It's good in acidic soils, protects against some soil borne crop diseases...
I can always retcon things in if I find the need to do so. (Hey, I did it with bearded dragons, for instance.) I'd need to look more into whether and how charcoal alone can be usefully employed in soil.
 
Reintroduction of koalas is possible, but it would be more of a late seventeenth or eighteenth century idea. Essentially, this is the time when population decline has brought about more regrowth of forests and the like, which might lead to people importing koalas as either exotic pets or as part of the fur trade.


There's a couple of challenges with this. The first is that anywhere in northern Aururia will have the the shortest time to develop new soil techniques, and the smallest population with which to develop the necessary inventions. I'd been thinking that if terra preta developed anywhere, it would be in the depleted soils of the Interregnum Five Rivers, where there was a longer agricultural tradition, a pressing need, and rather more people to seek to invent it.

The second and perhaps greater challenge is that the problem with northern Aururian soils is not just lack of some key nutrients. It's also an overpresence of various heavy metals, such as iron. This also creates problems for crops which cannot tolerate too high levels of those metals. I don't know whether terra preta would help in those circumstances or not - for instance, if the iron also interferes with the right kind of earthworms.


I can always retcon things in if I find the need to do so. (Hey, I did it with bearded dragons, for instance.) I'd need to look more into whether and how charcoal alone can be usefully employed in soil.
Charcoal in soil enhances water retention, which enhances nutrient (phosphorous included) retention.
 
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