I've heard very little discussion about JFK's assassination on this forum and the search bar did not yield much at all about him. So basically what's your opinion on what happened in Dallas?
JFK's assassination
- Thread starter TofuTanker
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I've heard that Ian does not take kindly to conspiracy theories. Oswald, a lone Commie nut, did it. Period.
Because only in an Alternate History did a conspiracy actually happen.Why is this is AH discussion?
I will be protective of KyleB against Ian's wrath in that I don't think this topic is too zany-ly conspiratorial to be spammy and he's not saying "Wake up, Sheeple!", but I think it should be in Chat.
BlairWitch749
Banned
These threads don't come up because they are inevitably locked and lead to bannings
Same thing with any Hitler in Argentina, or Bormann surviving, 9/11 truthers etc
Same thing with any Hitler in Argentina, or Bormann surviving, 9/11 truthers etc
Not really. Ruby was alive until I think 1967. He did it because he wanted revenge on Oswald for killing the President, as he said himself many times.
I'm not trying to spread conspiracy theories, I was just wondering what people believed about this topic.
We all believe the official story, what's there to discuss? Is it really so hard to believe that a trained Marine marksman can aim at a slow-moving convertible in an open-air plaza on a clear, sunny day and hit his target?
I wrote my Master's paper on the murder of JFK. No real serious historian believes the Warren report. There are too many holes in it. My thesis was that right wing Cubans hired the Mafia to do the job for them. They wanted revenge on what happened at the Bay of Pigs. RFK figured it before he was killed, i believe. But the proof is long gone. The people involved are long dead. I think Allen Speactor is the only Warren Report official still alive. There was book written a few years ago Called "Case Closed" that Said the Warren Report was right. It was full of holes. You can believe any theory that you want. I wrote my MA more than 20 years ago. Since than I have read I believe almost every book and article written on the death of JFK. Lots of mystery to it.
I won't report you, since I don't know too much about the subject.
However, I think you're fucked anyway.
However, I think you're fucked anyway.
Penelope
Banned
I really don't think that a JFK conspiracy counts as a bannable offense. I'm pretty sure that the bannable conspiracy theories are more like Holocaust Denial, etc.
Nietzsche
Banned
While JFK conspiracies are more respectable and reasonable-sounding than, say, the Truther, Birther and such that would follow, it's still a load of shit as your argument flies in the face of Occam's Razor.
An impressive, even for the marines, if mentally unstable sniper. Slow target. Perfect day. Perfect line of sight.
Where, exactly, is the hole in that?
I'll feed a little, but only a little:
The Warren Commission is not full of any holes. But the Conspiracy theories are like Swiss cheese. Certainly the Warren Commission was not privy to certain facts, like the attempts to kill Castro, but that still doesn't matter (and Kennedy was discussing rapprochment with Castro, who sought repaired relations with the US and I think was getting upset with the Soviets, making any attempt by the Cuban government idiotic as a concept). The House Committee that they had in the 1970's is what's given a lot of these conspiracy people a leg to stand on. The problem is that that investigation was a thousand times more flawed than anything that happened during the Warren Commission. The Commission occasionally didn't know things; the Committee in the 70's got things outright wrong and skipped blissfully through that ignorance, all leading to a wrong conclusion that Kennedy was assassinated by conspiracy.
Oswald was involved, no question. The issue then becomes, was it part of a wider organization. The answer, no. Oswald was a loner with no friends and had been a loner all his life (he grew up in an abusive home with a neglectful mother, had no friends, and spent his time skipping school and riding buses around the city) and his biggest problem was that he was a nobody, so how the hell does he meet up with these great big shadow organizations? He was a Communist, so why the hell would he ally with Cuban exiles, who sought the overthrow of a Communist regime in Cuba, or the Mafia, the epitome of Communist stereotypes for Capitalism, or the CIA or FBI or whatever other organization, who would not in a million years involve a Communist in any coup (a coup which they wouldn't have done anyway) nor would he work with them? He was also a violent man who had attempted to kill General Walker, and planned to shoot Nixon before his wife locked him in a closet, and abused his wife; he was also a crack shot in the Marines, and had training shooting targets many times the feet away he was from Kennedy, roughly the shape of Kennedy's body relative to him.
There were three shots fired, and three only. So if there was anyone else, they weren't shooting because they all came from the same direction. To nip something in the bud, the Grassy Knoll, which is what Conspiracy theorist love, would actually be very, very difficult to shoot from. Firstly, the fence is very tall, so you either have to stand on a box, or raise your arms all the way up to your head. Try shooting a rifle like that. Secondly, you have a giant tree blocking your view. Thirdly, at that angle, the vehicle would be passing you very quickly relative your location, making an accurate shot very difficult.
So Oswald acted alone and by himself. For further reading, even though I disagree with certain points where it concerns the view of Kennedy's politics and policy, I point to the following:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
The Warren Commission is not full of any holes. But the Conspiracy theories are like Swiss cheese. Certainly the Warren Commission was not privy to certain facts, like the attempts to kill Castro, but that still doesn't matter (and Kennedy was discussing rapprochment with Castro, who sought repaired relations with the US and I think was getting upset with the Soviets, making any attempt by the Cuban government idiotic as a concept). The House Committee that they had in the 1970's is what's given a lot of these conspiracy people a leg to stand on. The problem is that that investigation was a thousand times more flawed than anything that happened during the Warren Commission. The Commission occasionally didn't know things; the Committee in the 70's got things outright wrong and skipped blissfully through that ignorance, all leading to a wrong conclusion that Kennedy was assassinated by conspiracy.
Oswald was involved, no question. The issue then becomes, was it part of a wider organization. The answer, no. Oswald was a loner with no friends and had been a loner all his life (he grew up in an abusive home with a neglectful mother, had no friends, and spent his time skipping school and riding buses around the city) and his biggest problem was that he was a nobody, so how the hell does he meet up with these great big shadow organizations? He was a Communist, so why the hell would he ally with Cuban exiles, who sought the overthrow of a Communist regime in Cuba, or the Mafia, the epitome of Communist stereotypes for Capitalism, or the CIA or FBI or whatever other organization, who would not in a million years involve a Communist in any coup (a coup which they wouldn't have done anyway) nor would he work with them? He was also a violent man who had attempted to kill General Walker, and planned to shoot Nixon before his wife locked him in a closet, and abused his wife; he was also a crack shot in the Marines, and had training shooting targets many times the feet away he was from Kennedy, roughly the shape of Kennedy's body relative to him.
There were three shots fired, and three only. So if there was anyone else, they weren't shooting because they all came from the same direction. To nip something in the bud, the Grassy Knoll, which is what Conspiracy theorist love, would actually be very, very difficult to shoot from. Firstly, the fence is very tall, so you either have to stand on a box, or raise your arms all the way up to your head. Try shooting a rifle like that. Secondly, you have a giant tree blocking your view. Thirdly, at that angle, the vehicle would be passing you very quickly relative your location, making an accurate shot very difficult.
So Oswald acted alone and by himself. For further reading, even though I disagree with certain points where it concerns the view of Kennedy's politics and policy, I point to the following:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
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I'll join my fellow Kexpert, and shoot down the RFK horseshit. First of all, Bobby never read the Warren Report, in part or in full, nor did he ever mention the assassination even to his closest intimates as anything other than "the events of November 22" or "Dallas". I do suspect where Duke got this from, namely Thomas' RFK bio. The problem is that this is an elliptical reference in reference to Bobby's eldest son Joe that "he thought his father might know something that others did not" in that respect. But no one can deviner, as we say in French, or mind-read. To take it beyond what it is, an elliptical reference, and create a whole shitty yarn out of it is absurd.
In this case, the simplest explanation is the best: one lone nut, Lee Harvey Oswald, with a $15 rifle, got off three shots for two hits, including a head shot, thus taking out the most powerful man in the world. He had motive, and sure got opportunity when the motorcade route went past his place of work. Gerald Posner's Case Closed basically lays everything out. 'Nuff said.
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