Is "Pulling an Meiji" truely unique?

[Arafeel]

Of course, much of China had a lot of these elements as well, right? Especially the Yangzi delta.

Yes, as did parts of india, egypt, persia, etc. But not all of them, too the same degree.

 

[TFSmith121]

The more people post, the more I think the

The more people post, the more I think the geographic isolation may have been the key; not having land frontiers wuld have made a huge difference when it came to state centralization, lack of easy allies for the peripheral regions, ease of transportation (coastal maritime in this case), and a lessened need to focus on defense than (say) a similarly sized state on the Asian mainland or in Africa...

Again, there's a reason maritime states - the US, UK, Japan, etc. - tend to have periods of peaceful development that continental states do not have as often...

Best,

 

[democracy101]

Another thing that mattered for the difference between Japan and Korea would be the economic strength and its disparity between the two nations. (While Korea had a technological and scientific superiority over Japan for a long time, Japan came to the same tier through Western Learning from the Dutch)

While both nations persued isolationism, Japan's territorial differences allowed different products to successfully be for sale(furs from the north, silk from the south) and allowed trade.

The second successful system that allowed Japan to have an economic superiority over Korea was the daimyo's wage system(paid in large amounts of rice). This allowed trade to grow, as frequent domestic trade meant development of transport infrastructure(also, as the daimyos were staying in their provinces for a long time, they typically stimulated commercialisation of agricultural products such as tobacco, for their own good).

The third was the rice tax- with a rump tax(same amount for everyone), farmers had incentives to produce agricultural products more efficiently.

Yes, but all of these factors were essentially due to the effects of population trends within both countries. Korea was invaded by 14 countries throughout its history, although eight of them mostly targeted what is now Manchuria. As a result, the peninsula's population decreased over the long run from the 10th to 17th centuries, from a peak of around 8-12 million under Goryeo before the Mongol invasions, to around only 4-6 million soon after the same invasions, after which it stagnated (~6-8) until the mid-17th century. For comparison, based on data compiled by the Tang after it occupied Baekje and Goguryeo, the peninsula's population (excluding Goguryeo's former possessions within Manchuria) was probably around 7-9 million by the late 7th century, despite major population displacements due to war. However, the introduction of cash crops since the 16th century did cause the population to double or triple (12-18 million) by 1800 or so, although it then stagnated again around 15 million or so by the middle of the century. Each major war led to widespread destruction, forcing the country to rebuild over and over again, and made it extremely difficult to continuously pursue innovations over decades, if not centuries. As a result, while there were several major cities, the bulk of the urban population generally remained concentrated around Hanseong (Seoul), somewhat limiting developments.

On the other hand, the Japanese population continued to grow at a steady rate since the archipelago was politically consolidated around AD 500, when the population was around 4-5 million, after which it reached around 8-10 million by the 14th century, 15-20 million by the 16-17th, and 25 million by around 1800 or so. This gradual growth for over a millennia was possible because it never experienced major foreign invasions, and it was only briefly threatened, not directly invaded, by the Mongols in the late 13th century. While the Sengoku Period did devastate the country for a century as a result of numerous warring factions, the extended war remained as the only major sustained period of widespread turmoil until the 19-20th centuries, allowing the country to recover soon after. Continued population growth across the country meant that although Edo (Tokyo) became prominent by 1600 or so under the Tokugawa, other major cities, such as Ōsaka, Kyōto, and Nagoya, also continued to flourish for over two centuries. These conditions ultimately allowed further developments and innovations to be compounded over time, due to a larger labor force mostly stemming from continuous levels of population growth.

In other words, in order for Korea to successfully pull off a "Meiji," it would first have to systematically carry out major land reforms with the aim of boosting population growth rates over the long term, which would essentially require a PoD around 1700-50 at the latest, as the court would need to enact favorable policies after systematic restructuring.

Notwithstanding the linguistic point, it's fairly unlikely that a similar kind of rapid industrialization would have happened or would have been permitted in another country. Other posters have noted that other countries were too close to the Western powers' spheres of influence and this is actually very true. However, one of the major reasons Japan was forced open by Perry's Black Ships was because the Western powers needed a refueling station in the Pacific for their fleets - nothing more, so it was forced open. Allowing Japan to create (rapidly) an industrial base helped with this and allowed the country to rapidly assist Western fleets, make repairs and more. The other reason of course is Japan's strategic location; by allowing it to modernize and sweetening up to the Meiji government, the West suddenly had a modern 'friend' in a strategically important region to act as a counter-balance to Russian expansion in East Asia (and don't forget that the 1850s and 1860s were the height of the 'Great Game').

Basically this. While Japan did not have enough natural resources for Western powers to express significant interest in colonization, it was also strategically located near China, Southeast Asia, and various islands across the Pacific for some of them to stop by. Specifically, Portugal and the Netherlands arrived in Japan in the 16-17th centuries, while Japan managed to eventually contact Spain through the Philippines. Although implementation of Sakoku, beginning in 1633, sharply limited Nanban trade soon after, a continuous influx of Rangaku from the Dutch meant that the country would eventually be prepared to tackle further reforms soon after the US arrived in 1853 to open up its trading ports.

On the other hand, Korea was much more geographically isolated in comparison, which meant that although several shipwrecked sailors did temporarily visit the peninsula, they generally did not find anything interesting in particular, especially as the Imjin War and Manchu invasions had respectively left the peninsula devastated in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. France eventually sent several warships in 1866 because Joseon had executed several French missionaries, not because they specifically wanted to open up the peninsula for trade, and although the US also attacked Korea five years later with five warships, it was not until 1876 that the country was forcibly "opened up" to trade by Japan.

However, it's also important to note that both Japan and Korea had extensive trading contacts with China and the Ryukyus, and also traded with Southeast Asia through the latter, which would also have explained why both had been hesitant to trade more extensively with Western powers before technological considerations eventually came into play.

 

[Timaeus]

hm. is it possible for 1896 Philippines to have modernized fast? i mean, it was economically self-sufficient, it had a rising, maybe even forward-looking middle class. if the Americans didn't come in and ruin everything, perhaps the Philippines would have been a mid-level power, maybe even on par with Japan. at least, as far as i understand.

 

[06294086]

hm. is it possible for 1896 Philippines to have modernized fast? i mean, it was economically self-sufficient, it had a rising, maybe even forward-looking middle class. if the Americans didn't come in and ruin everything, perhaps the Philippines would have been a mid-level power, maybe even on par with Japan. at least, as far as i understand.

Maybe not on par with Japan but I'm sure that it will do much better without US barging in and screwed up everything.