Hannibal Victorious: A Carthaginian TL

Sulemain

Banned
The Ptolemaic and Seleucid Kingdoms.
216BCE-190BCE.


The defeat of Rome on Carthage had wide reaching percussions, not least upon Ptolemaic Egypt, a power favourably inclined to Rome. The effects of Rome’s defeat would not be felt in Alexandria, but when did they come, they struck like a Thunderbolt from Thor himself.

In the Ptolemaic Kingdom’s heartland was the dualistic nature of many of the successor states displayed. Egypt was and is an ancient country whose existence even in the 3rd Century BCE long pre-dated the Alexandrian Expansion. The Ptolemaic Kings occupied a strange middle ground; they were simultaneously Hellenistic ruler in the mode of the Great Alexander, but also Egyptian Pharaohs; divine figures who transcended any mere mortal monarch; their rule was a reflection of the celestial order. While they were certainly presented to the Egyptian people as Pharaohs of the old school, the Ptolemys acted in their grand city of Alexandria like Hellenic Kings; speaking the Hellenic tongue and ruling in that manner. It was to be a duality that would ultimately doom their dynasty.

Ptolemaic Egypt had had contact with Rome since 273BCE, and had been studiously neutral throughout both of Rome’s conflicts with Carthage, having maintained friendly ties with all the major parties. In the immediate aftermath of the war, Rome was able to secure a huge loan from the Ptolemaic King at the time, Ptolemy IV Philopator. Ptolemy IV was a weak willed King who realm was wracked with chaos and rebellion his reign; he was disinterested in matters of state, letting himself be ruled by his favourites, male and female. Much of Upper Egypt was lost to rebellion in his reign, and only regained with great effort. Still, problems persisted and the divided between King and subject grew ever worse.

While Carthage had no territorial ambitions in the eastern Meditarian, it certainly had considerable commercial interests in the area, interests that were challenged by the Kingdom’s maritime might. And that commercial interest could easily turn into a military threat if a suitable ally to Carthage presented itself; that ally was the Seleucid Kingdom, stretching across Persia, Mesopotamia, Syria and parts of Anatolia. Whereas the Ptolemy’s had an attitude of friendly neutrality towards Rome, the Seleucid Kings were impeccably hostile to the Roman Republic, and had for much longer been enemies of the Ptolemaic Kings.

The death of Ptolemy IV and the ascendency of Antiochus III marked the ultimate end of the Ptolemaic Dynasty’s rule over Egypt. Having unified the Seleucid heartland, a territory of vast population and resources, and proclaimed himself Megas Basileus, the High King, of the Seleucid Empire. In return for trading concessions along the southern Anatolian coastline, and a promise of a share of tribute and plunder, Carthage funded a mercenary army to attack Egypt from the west, while Antiochus III marched south. As the second century BCE turned into the first he attacked, through Judeah-Israel, through Arabia, establishing Satraps and regional rulers as he did so; in due time these areas would be fully integrated under the central control of Antioch, but for now the distant kingship of the client system remained. The power of the central government in Antioch waned, royal magistrates giving way to royal governors giving way to client kings the more one got away from the capital. Seizing control of the Arabian Peninsula changed that; the coastline of Persia came under the firm control of the Kings in Antioch, and from there power would spread in land.

Antiochus had already established himself as a great military leader; his handling of the ruler-ship of Egypt showed his peacetime wisdom. The settlement of 195 BCE solidified his gains in Arabian and the Levant, as well as securing the loyalty of the Seleucid client states in western Anatolia and the Aegean. As promised, tribute and loot were granted to Carthage, and tariff relief and room for markets along the southern Anatolian coast established. Tariff, long a Ptolemaic vassal, was placed under the control of its own department in Antioch.

Egypt however, needed a unique solution. Although the Ptolemy’s had been defeated and either held captive or driven into exile, Egypt needed a ruler. And while Antiochus had a dualistic divide between Hellenic and Persian methods of kingship, that division was not as great as it once was; Persians had ruled Hellenes, and vice versa, for many years. The Egyptians had barely tolerated foreign rulers who lived in Alexandria; they would not tolerate one who lived in Antioch. Antiochus would have to find a way to ensure Egypt’s loyalty and support, in a way that would solidify his power over the region whilst avoiding the costs of controlling it from Antioch.

A new dynasty was therefore put on the throne of Egypt, ruling from Alexandria. Halfway between a client king and an ally, the new dynasty was of mixed Hellenic and Egyptian heritage, who’d already built up a dynastic reputation for honesty and public service. The Antipater’s, named for one of Alexanders generals, had not a drop of royal blood to them, but they had popularity and they had support of the most powerful successor monarch. The oaths the new King swore were that of someone who recognised the Seleucid’s superiority, and promised grain and wealth, but not subservient. In this way, Antiochus squared the circle of the Egyptian dilemma, and was free to focus on his own realm.
 
Interesting timeline. I do like how Hannibal takes ideas from the Romans regarding citizenship, it shows a flexibility that seems very much like him. What exactly is the POD that gets Rome to accept the peace offer after Cannae ITTL that they refused IOTL? Does Hannibal go for broke and move to camp outside the city as he would do later from a much weaker position, which would potentially sway the divided Roman senators just enough?


Anyway, this timeline is very well done. Looking forward to more.
 

Sulemain

Banned
Interesting timeline. I do like how Hannibal takes ideas from the Romans regarding citizenship, it shows a flexibility that seems very much like him. What exactly is the POD that gets Rome to accept the peace offer after Cannae ITTL that they refused IOTL? Does Hannibal go for broke and move to camp outside the city as he would do later from a much weaker position, which would potentially sway the divided Roman senators just enough?

Slightly different terms means a different mindset. The Roman Republic still exists as an independent entity, albeit one reduced in size and wealth. I'd add that alot of what's happened so far is based on OTL events: Hannibal's government career is modelled on his OTL one after Carthage's defeat in the 2nd Punic War.

Anyway, this timeline is very well done. Looking forward to more.

Sure thing, sure thing :) . I'll look at Gaul next before returning to Carthage in the 200BCE-150BCE period.
 
Hrm. IIRC, Alexander also equated Melqart and Hercules for political reasons during his siege on Tyre. I wish I could understand better why this was a thing.

Could you speak a little more clearly to the nature of the Point of Divergence and its effects?
 
Hrm. IIRC, Alexander also equated Melqart and Hercules for political reasons during his siege on Tyre. I wish I could understand better why this was a thing.

Could you speak a little more clearly to the nature of the Point of Divergence and its effects?

Melqart had always been associated with Heracles among the Greeks. Herodotus, for example, refers to Melqart as the Tyrian Heracles.

In the wish to get the best information that I could on these matters, I made a voyage to Tyre in Phoenicia, hearing there was a temple of Heracles at that place, very highly venerated. I visited the temple, and found it richly adorned with a number of offerings, among which were two pillars, one of pure gold, the other of smaragdos, shining with great brilliance at night. In a conversation which I held with the priests, I inquired how long their temple had been built, and found by their answer that they, too, differed from the Hellenes. They said that the temple was built at the same time that the city was founded, and that the foundation of the city took place 2,300 years ago. In Tyre I remarked another temple where the same god was worshipped as the Thasian Heracles. So I went on to Thasos, where I found a temple of Heracles which had been built by the Phoenicians who colonised that island when they sailed in search of Europa. Even this was five generations earlier than the time when Heracles, son of Amphitryon, was born in Hellas. These researches show plainly that there is an ancient god Heracles; and my own opinion is that those Hellenes act most wisely who build and maintain two temples of Heracles, in the one of which the Heracles worshipped is known by the name of Olympian, and has sacrifice offered to him as an immortal, while in the other the honours paid are such as are due to a hero.
 

Artaxerxes

Banned
I'm still lost as to the nature of the POD, to be honest.

More defections to Hannibal after Cannae and possibly a march to Rome afterwards, along with the Romans not just saying "feck off" to Hannibals emissaries when they got to Rome in the days after the battle.
 

Sulemain

Banned
More defections to Hannibal after Cannae and possibly a march to Rome afterwards, along with the Romans not just saying "feck off" to Hannibals emissaries when they got to Rome in the days after the battle.

Pretty much yeah. To cut a long story short, the Romans lose their nerve. Their is more to this planned, and I am slowly writing an update regarding Gaul. The Gauls will be one to invent something approaching feudalism, although with several unique twists.
 
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