Frankfurt was the home of the first group of elected representatives during the period of German Unification before it was crushed and attached to militarism (not counting the obvious stuff against Slavs, Italians, Danes, etc.). Bonn also still has half the government buildings or workers around, not that it really relates.
Frankfurt, Capital of West Germany
- Thread starter Westphalian
- Start date
Yeah, they'll be huge pressure from the Ossies to move the capital back to Berlin; this might even drag out the reunification negotiations. I don't think it would prevent reunification though. It could result in Germany have multiple capitals like South Africa. Ie the executive branch stays in Frankfurt, the legislative branch returns to Berlin, and the judical branch either stays in Karlsruhe or returns to Leipzig.
Deleted member 43582
"Ich bin ein Berliner." is perfectly acceptable for anybody here in Germany who doesn't have the Duden stuck up their butt. Seriously. It may not be grammarically correct but 99% of Germans would seee nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that news reproters allways want to report on a gaffe and the like so of course up to this day we hear this nonsense.
I think the history of the 1848 Frankfurt Parliament is important. Combined with it being capital of West Germany, it would cement the idea that Frankfurt is the capital of "democratic Germany" while Berlin was the capital of "authoritarian Germany".
Chances are good Frankfurt might remain the capital. The only reason to transfer it at that point would be to serve as an economic boost to eastern Germany and make the Ossis feel more welcomed.
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There would be no delay, as the question of the seat of government OTL was decided after the re-unification in 1991.
Actually, Germany in OTL has multiple capitals. The Supreme Court is in Karlsruhe (with other High Courts spread across the country, too) and Bonn is still seat of several ministries and official "Bundesstadt".
First of all, what JBO says is true. It's just that though "Er ist ein Pole" (He's a Pole") and "Er ist polnisch" (He's Polish) are correct grammar-wise, "Er ist Pole" (He's Pole) is "good" German and therefore recommended, just like "Er ist Arzt" or "Er ist Anwalt". But this construct will only be used for persons. If you want to say that Felix is a tomcat or that Rex is a dog, you always say "Felix ist ein Kater" or "Rex ist ein Hund" because cats and dogs aren't people.
What is true is that Germans kids have to learn that you always have to say "He's a doctor" and "He's a lawyer" and "He's a Pole" in English and that the German contraction is no correct English and therefore wrong.
Back to topic: Frankfurt am Main would definitely remain the capital of a reunited Germany in this scenario. On the other hand, there will still be the question what to do with Berlin. If there were no great politics in Berlin, how would you raise it from the historical ruins?
What is true is that Germans kids have to learn that you always have to say "He's a doctor" and "He's a lawyer" and "He's a Pole" in English and that the German contraction is no correct English and therefore wrong.
Back to topic: Frankfurt am Main would definitely remain the capital of a reunited Germany in this scenario. On the other hand, there will still be the question what to do with Berlin. If there were no great politics in Berlin, how would you raise it from the historical ruins?
Hhmm, so if Bonn were to be hit harder during the war having more of its buildings and infrastructure damaged/destroyed plus make the British, like the Americans, not willing to detach it as an autonomous region then that would appear to throw the decision wide open again. The one major problem with having it in Frankfurt that I can see is that you could possible end up with the problem the UK has with London, political and financial power being concentrated in one city dragging in influence and funding at the cost of other cities and regions. Alternatively if you keep it separate then you get the possibility of having a Washington, which from what some people have told me is all politics politics politics with nothing much outside, apart from some very nice tourist attractions, that to recommend it, so six of one half a dozen of the other I guess.
Yes, because the French would just love that idea.
One possibility with Frankfurt as the capital of the BRD is that Berlin becomes the de jure Capital with the Bundespraesident in residence while Frankfurt remains the de facto Capital from which the Bundeskanzler and Bundestag/rat assemble and govern.
Hhmm, so if Bonn were to be hit harder during the war having more of its buildings and infrastructure damaged/destroyed plus make the British, like the Americans, not willing to detach it as an autonomous region then that would appear to throw the decision wide open again. The one major problem with having it in Frankfurt that I can see is that you could possible end up with the problem the UK has with London, political and financial power being concentrated in one city dragging in influence and funding at the cost of other cities and regions. Alternatively if you keep it separate then you get the possibility of having a Washington, which from what some people have told me is all politics politics politics with nothing much outside, apart from some very nice tourist attractions, that to recommend it, so six of one half a dozen of the other I guess.
Yes, because the French would just love that idea.
Bonn simply was not industrialised as neighbouring cities, besides having no real strategic infrastructural keypossitions. You cannot change geography. Why would the allies bomb a non strategic target in the first place? they simply had bigger issues to settle elsewhere.
Frankfurt never had been a center of politics, as nearby Wiesbaden was the politcal centre of Hessen. Frankfurt was a commercial, industrial and later a financial centre. It was for that reason alone not a logical candidate to house a government in exile, besides being completely destroyed in the war. For a simmilar reason the French Petain regime had selected Vichy as seat, after the abbandoning of Paris, simply as Vichy had the necessary accomodation available on short notice. (It previously had been seating for a time in Bordeaux, but had to leave this city, as it was assigned to come under german control.)
The Allies had no real influence in where the seat was going to be, as long as it was in the sectors of the Western Allies. The German people of these zones could choose relatively independent where they were to take up residence for their govenrment in exile, as Berlin was no longer available, for obvious reasons.
Yeah right... just have a fanatical SS-commander or a "never surrender NS-mayor" with enough Volkssturm sit in Bonn and the place gets levelled - no strategic target? It is a bridgehead!
OTL, the cities commander ordered a withdrawal across the Rhine on March 7th and destroyed the bridge. The next day, the city waved a white flag.
Smart move.
The totally insignificant city of Stadtlohn/Westfalia with less than 10,000 inhabitants, in the middle of nowhere (one stonethrough away from the Netherlands), got levelled flat in March '45 because a silly mayor declared the overblown village to be a fortress and apparently some Allied officer got a good radio connection to the air force.
Neither has Bonn after the end of the Elector-Bishopric of Cologne.
But Frankfurt was, as others posted, an important ceremonical political center in the HRE and in the German Federation, during the episode of the 1848-parliament, and additionally for the Bizone.
Concerning the level of destruction, Frankfurt seemed unfazed, as they had already begun constructing a Parliament building (which later housed the Hessian Radio).
I thought Nuremberg was considered to be the 'unofficial capital' of the Holy Roman Empire since that was where the Reichstag met, at least until the Perpetual Diet of Regensburg? It's also only about a hundred miles shy of Gelnhausen which most people consider to be the centre of the EU so it's rather fitting.
Until the Perpetual diet, I don't believe there was an official "meeting spot." I do recall that Frankfurt had great importance as an Imperial center though. And of course, Frankfurt was also the capital of the German Confederation, and the site of the Frankfurt Diet.
Three reasons:
1) Because it's no joke, it's simply flat out wrong and that uninformed people still believe he said "I am a jelly doughnut" despite being told over and over that this is not what he said at all because is pretty insulting. Nobody likes willfully dense people.
2) It's a pivotal moment in German history and it's pretty damn insulting to all involved that piss-poor ignorant journalism turned it into a mockery over misunderstood grammar.
3) British "humor" is often just humor when the Brit in question is being called on being wrong. Case in point: you were lecturing a German on German grammar because you believed the doughnut myth and then fled into "but it's just a joke, why so sensitive" when called on it.
One point on the whole JFK "ein Berliner" versus "Berliner" thing: While JFK was speaking in Berlin to a crowd of Berliners, his wider audience was back home in the US, where "Ich bin ein Berlner" has the advantage of being something one can literally translate into English while sounding more natural to an American ear as well as being more euphonious given JFK's rather nasal New England accent. I think if you watch the video of the speech, you'd see how awkward "Ich bin Berliner" would have sounded in JFK's voice. Those who get hung up on the fine points of German grammar on this are essentially missing the point of how speechwriting works with respect to writing for the speaker and their natural cadences and where JFK's real audience was.
No, I think you are missing the point - the whole idea that German grammar rules imply that he stated "I'm a jelly doughnut" is made up of whole cloth for an audience which is addicted to "gaffes". It's simply not true.
I think these two very facts was why Bonn became the capital of West Germany.
While Frankfurt-am-Main would have made more sense, the fact the city (and its infrastructure) was just about destroyed during World War II mitigated against it being chosen the capital--it would have taken at minimum one decade to rebuild the city enough to function as the political capital of the country.