Europe: no 'scandinavian models/miracles'

Sweden is much held around here, the so-called swedish model of social-democracy and all. So in fact the whole scandinavian region, from Finland (the finnish scholar system was discussed much those days as well), to Denmark and Norway.

But according from here and old tales, it was not the case until WWII's end and efforts to rebuild the economies and all. In the old days, I have been told the clichés on the scandinavians was roughly a poor chummer, derided as 'alcoholic hicks' of northern europe kinda, conservative and all... Backwater, poor nations sort of.

So, challenge. How to block, screw and such the 'scandinavian miracles' from happening, and keep scandinavian nations as poorer, more backward lands?

(Disclaimer; I have nothing against scandinavians. It's a screw-dystopic kinda idea.)

Finland is probably easier, simply maybe a nasty Finnish Civil War ongoing some more, reds winning maybe.. or more realistically, the Winter or Continuation wars somehow ending badly for the finns, and the USSR get in and instal a puppet regime maybe... Or bad 'finlandisation'...

Denmark harder, because too close to Germany and UK?

I admit not knowing those nations well.... Set in pre 1900 to be safe with specific alt point of history, maybe before 1900.
 
More internal political issues would be a good start. Finland left with a bitter memory of its Civil war could have the red faction openly support the Soviet inv... sorry, liberation in the Winter War. Then, after WWII, the Soviets ensure that their puppets stay in power and instead of Finlandising Finland, screw it over quite massively in the long run.

Sweden - I think the best way of screwing Sweden would be to move it to enter WWI with an eye to russian territory. It'd have its army "undefeated in the field", with Swedish troops holding garrisons on Kopla peninsula, but still get screwed at Versaoilles for throwing their lot with Germany. Then, a longer period of violent red-white tension with an authoritarian government coming to the fore. Their neutrality towards Hitler Germany would be a lot cozier. Maybe they even get temporary border adjustments with Norway in 1941 (though i doubt they'd want them). Enter the Cold war with Reds on the border, few friendly export markets, and no support from the Americans because they are icky fascists.

Norway, I think, could easiest be dealt with through an early and comprehensive oil disaster. The government decides that offshore drilling is a stupid way of endangering the country's true wealth: fisheries. And thus is born the Norwegian fishing industry boom, with a large percentage of jobs and GDP coming from its enormous fishing and whaling fleets cruising the world's oceans. That'll end well.

Denmark - I'm not sure, but with an unfriendly Sweden and a slightly longer WWII, perhaps with fighting as British troops move up the peninsula, the start into postwar prosperity is certainly less auspicious.

You can't stop each of these countries have the trente glorieuses unless you screw over all nof europe, if not pretty much the postwar world, but this way, they will be less sustained, feel less prosperous, and have more painful issues to deal with.
 
Norway, I think, could easiest be dealt with through an early and comprehensive oil disaster. The government decides that offshore drilling is a stupid way of endangering the country's true wealth: fisheries. And thus is born the Norwegian fishing industry boom, with a large percentage of jobs and GDP coming from its enormous fishing and whaling fleets cruising the world's oceans. That'll end well.

Denmark - I'm not sure, but with an unfriendly Sweden and a slightly longer WWII, perhaps with fighting as British troops move up the peninsula, the start into postwar prosperity is certainly less auspicious.
Well, the Norwegian oil could just as well have been Danish, the Norwegians were just much better prepared and willing to fight when the the economic zones in the North Sea were created. Let's say Finland and Sweden are screwed like in your scenario, and the Danish politicians realize the potential of the North Sea. That would absolutely screw over Norway, not very rich to begin with, when the fisheries start to run into trouble.

That does leave Denmark in a really strong position*, but with the rest of Scandinavia still rather poor it could be seen as being solely due to the oil wealth. Contrast that with Norway, which although rich still has neighbors that are pretty similar.

I guess it might be possible to keep Denmark a much more conservative state that increasingly becomes ruled by oligarchs, using the oil wealth to placate the populace. The GDP/capita might be high, but the wealth would be distributed much less evenly. A Denmark that doesn't get trounced by the Germans in 1864 might do it, considering how much losing that war damaged the national psyche.

*The terrain in Denmark lends itself much better to efficient use of resources, what with being incredibly flat. Adding the Norwegian oil would be crazy.
 
To have real fun have Denmark either be more predatory after WW1 and demand the loss of Danish territories be returned from both Sweden and Germany (all of Slesvig-Holstein and Scania) or have Denmark entering WW1 to recover them. That should create an interesting WW2 situation not to mention post war.
 
For Sweden i belive the easiest and not violent way is to not have the Saltsjöbodsaccord and the unions and indusry continue their fights with massive strikes throughout the 30s and 40s.

This creates a more radical population and as we move into 1944 and the parliamentelections the communist pary gets over 15 % of the votes and Sweden becomes Albania
 
To have real fun have Denmark either be more predatory after WW1 and demand the loss of Danish territories be returned from both Sweden and Germany (all of Slesvig-Holstein and Scania) or have Denmark entering WW1 to recover them. That should create an interesting WW2 situation not to mention post war.
Denmark had lost all its fighting spirit by that point though. The war of 1864 basically changed the Danish mindset from "Heh, it's just a bunch of Germans, we can beat them with one arm tied behind our backs!" to "Ok, if we're ever invaded we should just bake some cakes for the invaders." I doubt even a Danish super Hitler-Goebbels clone could drag us out of that for WWI.

If we somehow manage to come out of that on top though (Which could probably only happen if the Russians threaten intervention of our behalf again) you would have a very different situation. I can't even imagine how insanely nationalistic/militaristic the nation would be, it would be something like North Korea. That's certainly a better base for creating a shitty Denmark than OTL, where the loss of a third of the state forced reforms and internal improvements.
 
To have real fun have Denmark either be more predatory after WW1 and demand the loss of Danish territories be returned from both Sweden and Germany (all of Slesvig-Holstein and Scania) or have Denmark entering WW1 to recover them. That should create an interesting WW2 situation not to mention post war.
There was a threat of the King being overthrown at the end of WWI because he tried to press for gaining another city and dissolved the Cabinet. That might help break things up earlier in the former Norse islands of Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland. I won't call them Norwegian because, let us face it, Europeans had vanished from Greenland for a period of several centuries.
 
Albania :eek:

I really can't see things getting that bad.

I can, have the events of Ådalen 1931 repeated with no Saltsjöbaden will leave the Socialdemocrats discredited and leaves the field open for extremists on both the right and left in a far stronger position
 
There was a threat of the King being overthrown at the end of WWI because he tried to press for gaining another city and dissolved the Cabinet. That might help break things up earlier in the former Norse islands of Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland. I won't call them Norwegian because, let us face it, Europeans had vanished from Greenland for a period of several centuries.

Speaking of Greenland, having the Greenland issue escalate would drive a nice wedge into the Nordic block
 
Here's one scenario for Sweden and Finland:

Have Sweden retain Finland past the Napoleonic Wars. In the decades to follow, make a consensus rise in Stockholm that keeping the Eastern Provinces in the future, too, is vital for the survival of the nation. Make this consensus part and parcel with a entrenched view of Sweden as a regional powerbroker in the north.

In the 1830s to 1850s, see a nascent Finnish nationalism start take root, including a moderate side wanting to work through Stockholm to increase Finnish linguistic and political rights and an initially very small radical side wanting a independent nation through violent secession.

Have a almost-general European war come about on schedule with the OTL Crimean War. Sweden and Russia fight in Finland and on the Baltic, for several long years. Russian land troops make some headway and occupy a large part of eastern Finland. In there, they recruit Finnish separatists to fight against Sweden, promising them independence or at least autonomy if Russia wins.

In the end, the larger western alliance Sweden is part of together with, say, the British and the French, wins by superior naval power and internal problems in Russia. The entire Finland is restored under Swedish rule, but the widespread devastation caused by the war has set back Finnish economic development by decades. The Swedish state's coffers are also quite empty.

Wartime experiences with the Finnish nationalists and their "treason" in the east make the Swedish to take a hard line against the nationalist movement in the east. As racist notions of the superiority of the Germanic people take root in the realm, a process begins in the Finnish provinces to marginalize Finnish language and culture and to make Finns "real Swedes" by schooling and nationalist propaganda, in the interest of national unity. This in turn weakens the moderate Finnish nationalists and plays into the hands of the radical secessionists. A special secret police is created to keep an eye on dangerous Finnish extremists.

At the same time, Stockholm decides to modernize its armed forces so that the next time Russia attacks, they will not be as vulnerable. As a result, the Swedish military in the 1860s-70s is one of the most modern in Europe, and quite large. The process swallows a lot of the fruits of the Swedish industrialization, though, and such resources as IOTL contributed to the Swedish people becoming more affluent and a rising middle class are being swallowed by the military and keeping Finland in check.

Economically, the nation polarizes to a rising upper class and a growing working class. Several large, sooty industrial towns rise in the south-central Sweden and southern Finland, creating a basis for the birth of an increasingly militant Swedish *Socialist movement.

By the time the 20th century comes around, constant and frustrated efforts for a Finnish "Home Rule" lead to the creation of a "Finnish Republican Army" making small scale attacks against military targets. The assassination of a rikssvenska governor in Eastern Finland brings about a crackdown by the authorities, one that in turn that sparks a small rebellion in the East.

In the west, Sweden is being increasingly seen as a militarist and chauvinist state only a bit better than Russia, even if still a powerful and modern nation in terms of the economy and the military.

Around the first decade of the 20th century a Great War comes around. Sweden sees itself again at war with the old enemy, Russia. Allied with a growing German Empire, Stockholm looks to once and for all to vanquish the eastern menace. As in previous wars, Finnish troops make a big part of the Swedish army marching east.

As the war bogs down into trench warfare in the west as IOTL, in the East Germany and allies make better headway against Russia. In the north, the Swedish army advances easily north of the Ladoga, but on the narrow Karelian isthmus (traditionally owned by Russia) is also forced into trenches and Russian troops fighting fanatically their backs to the capital frustrate all efforts to break through.

Two-to-three years into the war, the Swedish state has thrown almost all it has to the war effort. The enemy, lead by the British, is blockading Swedish trade. Slowly, opposition for the war grows. In Finland, Russian operatives have been working throughout the war to stir up rebellion. As the ethnically Finnish civilian population has received the poorest food rations through the war, it is the first to rise up in rebellion in 1913. Ironically, the army on the isthmus comes closest to break through Russian lines even as the Finnish rebellion cuts logistics to the area. As troops are marched against the Finnish nationalist rebellion, more towns rise up and in the military vacuum of central Sweden proper Socialist revolutionaries also decide to use the situation to their advantage. In weeks, a multi-sided civil war engulfs the Swedish state. As the embattled Swedish government seeks armistice with Russia and allies, Russians start rolling back Swedish troops in Karelia and the Germans send an uninvited expeditionary force to Skåne to stop the revolution from spreading.

In the east, also St.Petersburg falls to worker rebellion and an armistice is made by the Swedish and Russian governments. The bitter civil war in the Swedish realm grinds on, with the Germans supporting the government forces and the russians the Finnish revolutionaries. As the Russian government manages to crush the Socialist revolts in Russia, and the general European war ends in something like status quo ante through exhaustion as all sides fear the Swedish and Russian examples are repeated in their own capitals.

In a year's time, the Swedish Civil War is over. The Swedish lands have been ravaged and tens of thousands have died. With Russian support, Finland becomes an ostensibly independent republic whereas Stockholm is now ruled by a German-backed authoritarian military dictatorship, with a weak King as a front.

And so on. In the future both Sweden and Finland are more poor and more unstable than IOTL and far from the OTL political consensus we hold so dear. This will be exarbated if there is a "Second Great War" in which Fascist Sweden tries to regain the lost eastern provinces but fails.
 
It seems that I forgot Iceland, guys!

How to 'screw it' too?

USSR VS Canada-USA heat.. or ironically, early end of Cold War, Iceland loose potential usefullness? Problems in Denmark farther in past? Canadian hostility?
 
The Danes declare the unilateral declaration of independence in 1944 unlawful and invades to restore "law and order"
 
In 1905 Sweden decides that Norwegian independence is intolerable - this could lead to both a war and an escalating political situation within Sweden.
 
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