Effects of End-All Battle of Jutland!

Tonrich

Had a short discussion in another thread (Rainbow) about the Royal Navy's world responsibilities as far as protecting the dominions. The question came up about the outcome of the Battle of Jutland and what it meant. While the Jutland battle had the two fleets 'touch' each other they basically remained as Fleet-in-being threats the rest of the war.

My question is what if the German's basically came at the Grand Fleet kamikaze style. I will set up the 'new' results of this battle below and then I have questions as to how this affects not just the rest of the war, but the interwar period and global naval strategies. (Pardon my first use of the chart)

If this becomes the results of Jutland what happens during the rest of the Naval war? Do the Airplanes and Zeppelins become more prominent?

Also after the war what does this do to naval building and strategies? Would we still have the London treaties?

Look forward to comments as I am a true novice on the great war when it comes to the fleets, building capacities and global cruisers.

Grand Fleet High Seas Fleet
Starting number Sunk Undamaged Starting number Sunk Undamaged
28162Battleships16140
961Battlecruisers520
000Pre-Dreadnaughts660
860Armored Cruisers000
26147Light Cruisers1180
784110Destroyers (Torp)61375
 

VanOwen

The RN's blockade continues. Other than some heated rhetoric in Parliament and a few heads rolling at the Admiralty, nothing really changes.
 

Tonrich

Ok, say they only have half the losses above. Won't the admiralty require replacements? What is the RN's situation when it comes to adequately protecting their globel possesions and shipping lanes? I would assume the request for replacements would start a shit-storm in parliament. Just a guess....
 
Cymry-Korean

Cymry-Korean

Willie II likely has a nervous breakdown, as that fleet was his pride and joy. With that in mind I'm sure heads would roll in the Imperial Navy, with whoever devised such a reckless strategy first on the proverbial chopping block.

Other than that the blockade continues and the British have the grim satisfaction of having a complete victory over the High Seas Fleet.
 
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Driftless

Driftless

Donor
Who's left with a notable number of Battleships and Battlecruisers? That's who the Admiralty will view as a potential threat (a threat beyond the Treasury...) That last bit is important too. Where is the cash coming from? For the German's, I'd think the Navy goes to subsistence level, as the Army needs every Pfennig it can get.
 

naraic

Tonrich said:
Ok, say they only have half the losses above. Won't the admiralty require replacements? What is the RN's situation when it comes to adequately protecting their globel possesions and shipping lanes? I would assume the request for replacements would start a shit-storm in parliament. Just a guess....
Click to expand...
The Royal Navy has always required cruisers to fill two roles. Fleet and trade protection.

During war time the admiralty will be told to sucks up their demands as the enemy fleet has been trashed. Fleet cruisers can (when repaired) be released to trade protection duties if needed and you only need fleet cruisers to screen your fleet against the enemy fleet. As the German fleet is essentially gone you don't need many fleet cruisers.

The biggest effect would be post war when Washington Naval treaties are being negotiated. Britain will want to build a lot of ships as replacements but may not be able to.

Historically under Washington there was theoretically parity between the USA and Britain but most people would have chosen the Royal Navy over the US navy the the time.

If we were to divide pre ww1 designed battleships and battlecruisers into three categories we can broadly separate them based on gun calibre.

Generation 1 11 or 12 inch guns
Generation 2 13.5 or 14 inch guns
Generation 3 15 or 16 inch guns

Under Washington the british only kept generation 2 or 3 capital ships while usa kept generation 1 ships in service. It's most likely under an alt Washington that Britain would have to keep whatever they had instead of building a large number of new ships. This may include keeping generation 1 battleships. In addition to being older and having served through the entirety of the war and having very worn machinery they would have to face another decade of service.
 
Simon

Simon

Unrestricted submarine warfare likely restarts six or seven months earlier than in our timeline once Germany realises that it won't be able to break the British blockade and has no other way of striking back. Depending on how stupid or unlucky the Germans are it could have some interesting effects on the US Presidential election in November. Especially if they feel desperate enough to send a Zimmermann telegram and get caught.
 
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Cymry-Korean

Cymry-Korean

Simon said:
Unrestricted submarine warfare likely restarts six or seven months earlier than in our timeline once Germany realises that it won't be able to break the British blockade and has no other way of striking back. Depending on how stupid or unlucky the Germans are it could have some interesting effects on the US Presidential election in November. Especially if they feel desperate enough to send a Zimmermann telegram and get caught.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't see how the German equivalent of the Foreign Office thought Mexico might actually gl for that. A Mexico still recovering from a freaking Civil War.
 

naraic

UoBLoyalist said:
I honestly don't see how the German equivalent of the Foreign Office thought Mexico might actually gl for that. A Mexico still recovering from a freaking Civil War.
Click to expand...
Probably because there was a lot of low level clashes on the US Mexican border. It was thought that it could escalate. Obviously it was stupid but from the outside if you follow american papers and read about incidents on the border well you draw a different conclusion.

See Mexican border war.
 

Jellico

naraic said:
The Royal Navy has always required cruisers to fill two roles. Fleet and trade protection.

During war time the admiralty will be told to sucks up their demands as the enemy fleet has been trashed. Fleet cruisers can (when repaired) be released to trade protection duties if needed and you only need fleet cruisers to screen your fleet against the enemy fleet. As the German fleet is essentially gone you don't need many fleet cruisers.

The biggest effect would be post war when Washington Naval treaties are being negotiated. Britain will want to build a lot of ships as replacements but may not be able to.

Historically under Washington there was theoretically parity between the USA and Britain but most people would have chosen the Royal Navy over the US navy the the time.

If we were to divide pre ww1 designed battleships and battlecruisers into three categories we can broadly separate them based on gun calibre.

Generation 1 11 or 12 inch guns
Generation 2 13.5 or 14 inch guns
Generation 3 15 or 16 inch guns

Under Washington the british only kept generation 2 or 3 capital ships while usa kept generation 1 ships in service. It's most likely under an alt Washington that Britain would have to keep whatever they had instead of building a large number of new ships. This may include keeping generation 1 battleships. In addition to being older and having served through the entirety of the war and having very worn machinery they would have to face another decade of service.
Click to expand...
It was interesting OTL how much RN tactics changed due to their relative poverty between the wars. Eg being unable to afford upgrading gun elevations like the IJN and USN they aggressively pursued medium range combat.

What cheap options exist when when you lack battleships?
 
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